Concept of the Nations Cup

[Which Tyler]

Ultimately, I quite liked having a sense of tournament about it; though it was a complete hash of a rushed job. I'd like to keep that element; but we need to be careful not to kill the golden goose of the RWC if we want to keep that. That element of actually mattering in some way has always been a little absent from the "friendlies" of the SI and AIs
Consequently, I'm having some initial thoughts about how to go about it.

My main thought would be to hold it in a Lions year, combining Summer and Autumn windows, using the non-lions squads from the home nations; and some 2nd tier teams - let France and Italy play the next best from the Quad-Nations. Home nations host the remaining QN side, top 3 from the Pacific, Top 2 from ENC and 2 from the Americas.


So next year, Lions go to SA; France to NZ, Italy to Argentina (and maybe the reverse opponents at home).

Rest of England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland invite Australia, Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, Spain, USA and Uruguay.
2 pools of 6 gives 5 games each, + a final (complete with up, Plate, Shield etc).
Almost a spiritual successor to the Churchill cup - but played every 4 years; and with first choice (but depleted) home nations sides, rather than official A-teams (I'm pretty sure that was the reason given for discontinuing the Churchill).

This would have to be hosted in Europe to allow for travel; but with revenue sharing so that the visitors an actually pay their players.

Something like this gives the minnows more time together, against decent opposition, playing on TV in decent sized stadia - which an only be good for them (so long as funding is there). Hopefully being denuded of the best from the home nations and quad nations means that it doesn't tread on the toes of the world cup - but almost as a stepping stone for the 2nd tier; and depth gathering for the top tier; whilst evening up some of the mis-matches.

Playing it alongside the Lions also moves the internationals out of the club windows - for the NH at least. This also still leaves us with 2 years out of every 4, with the usual June and November tours - so the big boys still get to play each other - just slightly less regularly (adding value when we do)

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I've wanted tournaments like what you're describing to replace the Lions for ages now, they could open up the Asian and American markets pretty easily too. Soccer had/has huge amounts of success with pre season tournaments in the US and Asia and rugby has been stupidly slow to follow suit, the world cup in Japan is a pretty good example of how successful they could be if done correctly.

 

[Which Tyler]

I've wanted tournaments like what you're describing to replace the Lions for ages now, they could open up the Asian and American markets pretty easily too. Soccer had/has huge amounts of success with pre season tournaments in the US and Asia and rugby has been stupidly slow to follow suit, the world cup in Japan is a pretty good example of how successful they could be if done correctly.

I've always mourned the loss of the Churchill Cup; whilst feeling that the tours arranged absent Lions players have always lacked any real interest - from all involved teams.
Beyond that, I've always wanted more matches between the 1st and 2nd tiers - whilst acknowledging that they're always meaningless mismatches, which don't garner as much money (RWC aside)
I've also been surprised that this Autumn Cup has actually held any interest for me at all - I was expecting to miss basically all of it

 

[TRF_Olyy]

As a once every four years thing I wouldn't mind it at all,
Would be very against it being annual though (as you said: takes away what makes the RWC special in that case).

Will also echo that I miss the Churchill Cup too.

 

[Mikey12]

Interesting concept, I've quite enjoyed having meaning (in the loosest sense of the word) to the games. Generally our touring sides barely get any tv time in lions year as so many first 15 are out of action.
My only concern is when do players get to rest. Every time the lions tour the majority come back injured and the 6N the following year is a much watered down event. The side who takes the most home nation players always does far worse in the 6N it's only England really that have enough strength in depth to diminish this effect.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Ultimately, I quite liked having a sense of tournament about it; though it was a complete hash of a rushed job. I'd like to keep that element; but we need to be careful not to kill the golden goose of the RWC if we want to keep that. That element of actually mattering in some way has always been a little absent from the "friendlies" of the SI and AIs
Consequently, I'm having some initial thoughts about how to go about it.

My main thought would be to hold it in a Lions year, combining Summer and Autumn windows, using the non-lions squads from the home nations; and some 2nd tier teams - let France and Italy play the next best from the Quad-Nations. Home nations host the remaining QN side, top 3 from the Pacific, Top 2 from ENC and 2 from the Americas.


So next year, Lions go to SA; France to NZ, Italy to Argentina (and maybe the reverse opponents at home).

Rest of England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland invite Australia, Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, Spain, USA and Uruguay.
2 pools of 6 gives 5 games each, + a final (complete with up, Plate, Shield etc).
Almost a spiritual successor to the Churchill cup - but played every 4 years; and with first choice (but depleted) home nations sides, rather than official A-teams (I'm pretty sure that was the reason given for discontinuing the Churchill).

This would have to be hosted in Europe to allow for travel; but with revenue sharing so that the visitors an actually pay their players.

Something like this gives the minnows more time together, against decent opposition, playing on TV in decent sized stadia - which an only be good for them (so long as funding is there). Hopefully being denuded of the best from the home nations and quad nations means that it doesn't tread on the toes of the world cup - but almost as a stepping stone for the 2nd tier; and depth gathering for the top tier; whilst evening up some of the mis-matches.

Playing it alongside the Lions also moves the internationals out of the club windows - for the NH at least. This also still leaves us with 2 years out of every 4, with the usual June and November tours - so the big boys still get to play each other - just slightly less regularly (adding value when we do)

complicated but make sense

 

[Leinster Fan]

I think it could work. The tours during the Lions do give the coaches licence to experiment a bit and sometimes gets senior players who didn't make the Lions rejuvenated but for the most part they're pretty lacklustre. Turning it into a tournament that does real benefit to Tier 2 teams would do a lot of good. I don't see it as a threat to the world cup, or the six nations for that matter. Win all round really.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I like the idea of this essentially being a tournament to run in parallel to the Lions and give the minnows more exposure to T1 teams. I think the point you mentioned about revenue sharing is valid. As well as giving them exposure it should be a way to boost revenue of the less developed countries. Not sure on what the exact split should be but certainly a sizeable chunk.

 

[Wasps92]

Scrap it and revert back to the regular Autumn Internationals, the annual 6 nations and 4 year WC cycle is enough for me.

 

[higgik]

Ultimately, I quite liked having a sense of tournament about it; though it was a complete hash of a rushed job. I'd like to keep that element; but we need to be careful not to kill the golden goose of the RWC if we want to keep that. That element of actually mattering in some way has always been a little absent from the "friendlies" of the SI and AIs
Consequently, I'm having some initial thoughts about how to go about it.

My main thought would be to hold it in a Lions year, combining Summer and Autumn windows, using the non-lions squads from the home nations; and some 2nd tier teams - let France and Italy play the next best from the Quad-Nations. Home nations host the remaining QN side, top 3 from the Pacific, Top 2 from ENC and 2 from the Americas.


So next year, Lions go to SA; France to NZ, Italy to Argentina (and maybe the reverse opponents at home).

Rest of England, Ireland, Wales and Scotland invite Australia, Japan, Fiji, Tonga, Georgia, Spain, USA and Uruguay.
2 pools of 6 gives 5 games each, + a final (complete with up, Plate, Shield etc).
Almost a spiritual successor to the Churchill cup - but played every 4 years; and with first choice (but depleted) home nations sides, rather than official A-teams (I'm pretty sure that was the reason given for discontinuing the Churchill).

This would have to be hosted in Europe to allow for travel; but with revenue sharing so that the visitors an actually pay their players.

Something like this gives the minnows more time together, against decent opposition, playing on TV in decent sized stadia - which an only be good for them (so long as funding is there). Hopefully being denuded of the best from the home nations and quad nations means that it doesn't tread on the toes of the world cup - but almost as a stepping stone for the 2nd tier; and depth gathering for the top tier; whilst evening up some of the mis-matches.

Playing it alongside the Lions also moves the internationals out of the club windows - for the NH at least. This also still leaves us with 2 years out of every 4, with the usual June and November tours - so the big boys still get to play each other - just slightly less regularly (adding value when we do)

Principle great. T2 nations could 'qualify' for it during the other 2 seasons.
Only change would be to limit it to 10 teams, with 2 groups then play offs.

 

[Which Tyler]

Principle great. T2 nations could 'qualify' for it during the other 2 seasons.
Only change would be to limit it to 10 teams, with 2 groups then play offs.

I went for 12 as 5 in a group is a PITA with fallow weeks, whilst 8 teams doesn't feel like a fair distribution of T2s.
Besides, 3 matches and a final would only replace onenofnthe annual windows, but that's very much secondary