Cheetahs and Kings booted from pro 14

[Al Bangor]

European players don't do that though

Rest on a plane can't be compared to real rest - otherwise teams would just fly in on game day and go straight to the captain's run.
Travel takes its toll no matter how many creature comforts you have

Having traveled a lot myself, I agree. Times changes can throw off the body's circadian rhythms. It's called Jet Lag and it's affects the body through fatigue and other symptoms.

Jet lag disorder - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I'm happy to play our home games in Barcelona for champions cup

Could a good way to promote SA rugby and each of our teams. Maybe each team should pick something like a 'sister city' if participation in EC is an option.

Cape Town has 'sister city' relations with Aachen and Munich in Germany. I actually fid it odd thats the only relations in Western Europe.

Durban has Rotterdam, Antwerpen, Bremen, Nantes and Leeds.

Pretoria has Delft.

Jo'Burg has London, Birmingham and (maybe too far off St Petersburg).

Don't know how well suported the game is in the Netherlands and Germany. Maybe our teams could include one player of our 'sister city/country' for development and promotion of the game in general.

 

[unrated]

Could a good way to promote SA rugby and each of our teams. Maybe each team should pick something like a 'sister city' if participation in EC is an option.

Cape Town has 'sister city' relations with Aachen and Munich in Germany. I actually fid it odd thats the only relations in Western Europe.

Durban has Rotterdam, Antwerpen, Bremen, Nantes and Leeds.

Pretoria has Delft.

Jo'Burg has London, Birmingham and (maybe too far off St Petersburg).

Don't know how well suported the game is in the Netherlands and Germany. Maybe our teams could include one player of our 'sister city/country' for development and promotion of the game in general.

Love the idea of including some German and Dutch development players in our squad and using their cities as bases.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Love the idea of including some German and Dutch development players in our squad and using their cities as bases.

Could be a good reason (or just sugar coating) for SA fans to visit those cities, get a game in while we're over there and support our boys in the process.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

I'm happy for Euro matches in Amsterdam, Munich and Berlin. Two games in Europe and one in SA seems very doable to me.

 

[Twistie]

Hello dont know if this the right thread for this so here i go Has the Netherlands Rugby Union ever tried to get South African players who cant get in the Springboks but qualify through ancestry (parent,grandparents) same with the German Rugby Union .Also think the Sister City Idea is good showcase rugby in cities where its not well known.

 

[unrated]

Most Afrikaans people has gone through too many generations over a hundred years to qualify for Dutch or German citizenship. Won't happen. There is only a cultural link. We can assist them with their structures and invite them to local tournaments to expose them to high level professional rugby. This is in essence what South Africa did for Argentina, and we have now signed a partnership with Georgia to help develop their structures. Their teams will spend time in South Africa in the future

 

[Twistie]

Most Afrikaans people has gone through too many generations over a hundred years to qualify for Dutch or German citizenship. Won't happen. There is only a cultural link. We can assist them with their structures and invite them to local tournaments to expose them to high level professional rugby. This is in essence what South Africa did for Argentina, and we have now signed a partnership with Georgia to help develop their structures. Their teams will spend time in South Africa in the future

Thanks for that its good to know.Only asked based on knowing South Africans who i know living here in NZ who could get a european passport because of a grandparent and thought there might be more.Good that SA is helping Argentina and Georgia,like both countries and went to the 2011 world cup game between them here in NZ. Know that SA have a long history of helping Argentina and its good for the game that SA is doing the same for Georgia.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

would the majority of the SA fan base mind their teams being based overseas?....hardly ever getting to see them play live at home, losing the home advantage and playing at altitude?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Having traveled a lot myself, I agree. Times changes can throw off the body's circadian rhythms. It's called Jet Lag and it's affects the body through fatigue and other symptoms.

Jet lag disorder - Symptoms and causes

www.mayoclinic.org

This is irrelevant as there is no time zone difference. The only difference will be Daylight Savings, which we don't do. And even if there is a difference, it might me one zone, But the flight between SA and Europe/Uk isn't a East/West flight. It's a South/North flight.

But I understand the issues, relating no real rest on a plane.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Thanks for that its good to know.Only asked based on knowing South Africans who i know living here in NZ who could get a european passport because of a grandparent and thought there might be more.Good that SA is helping Argentina and Georgia,like both countries and went to the 2011 world cup game between them here in NZ. Know that SA have a long history of helping Argentina and its good for the game that SA is doing the same for Georgia.

TBH I'm also surprised that the Netherlands hasn't looked in on our shores. There is a cultural connection (I'd reinforce what @unrated said about the vast majority of "Dutch" Saffas' Dutch lineage being buried in time) but then you see our boys jog out for Scotland, Ireland and France. I suppose it has more to do with the fact that the Dutch club scene is near to inconsequential and there not being a demand for higher level players. Might be a gap in the market IDK.

would the majority of the SA fan base mind their teams being based overseas?....hardly ever getting to see them play live at home, losing the home advantage and playing at altitude?

I wouldn't mind. I only attend one or two games a year in any case. Prefer TV in any case. If that is the condition I'd wager most South African fans would be happy enough as the Euro championship is not as much of a marathon. Its more a question of would the players mind. I wouldn't be able to answer that.
As for the loss of home advantage that would only be for potential 'Euro' games not 'Pro' games and its only two teams that have the "highveld advantage". Okay, the Sharks' humidity is also a point of difference. We certainly would lose some advantage but I don't know how far that is a consideration. I almost want to say it might even be better travel-wise for us than what SR was. I'd far sooner travel North to watch a game and playing all play off matches in a relatively small geographic zone in the same time zone would be much better than zipping back and forth over the Indian ocean from QF to SF to final.

 

[TRF_heineken]

TBH I'm also surprised that the Netherlands hasn't looked in on our shores. There is a cultural connection (I'd reinforce what @unrated said about the vast majority of "Dutch" Saffas' Dutch lineage being buried in time) but then you see our boys jog out for Scotland, Ireland and France. I suppose it has more to do with the fact that the Dutch club scene is near to inconsequential and there not being a demand for higher level players. Might be a gap in the market IDK.



I wouldn't mind. I only attend one or two games a year in any case. Prefer TV in any case. If that is the condition I'd wager most South African fans would be happy enough as the Euro championship is not as much of a marathon. Its more a question of would the players mind. I wouldn't be able to answer that.
As for the loss of home advantage that would only be for potential 'Euro' games not 'Pro' games and its only two teams that have the "highveld advantage". Okay, the Sharks' humidity is also a point of difference. We certainly would lose some advantage but I don't know how far that is a consideration. I almost want to say it might even be better travel-wise for us than what SR was. I'd far sooner travel North to watch a game and playing all play off matches in a relatively small geographic zone in the same time zone would be much better than zipping back and forth over the Indian ocean from QF to SF to final.

One of me brother's friend's from Varsity, who lives in Amsterdam, used to play for the Lions, and he's playing in an amateur league in the Netherlands. He says that rugby is more prominent in Germany, where a few guys from University were recruited to go and play pro rugby in Germany. But the thing is that they aren't just recruited for the sake of rugby, in that they must have another skill/work related qualification to be considered to go to Germany. In The Netherlands, most of the guys playing rugby, are expats from other countries working in the Netherlands.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

TBH I'm also surprised that the Netherlands hasn't looked in on our shores. There is a cultural connection (I'd reinforce what @unrated said about the vast majority of "Dutch" Saffas' Dutch lineage being buried in time) but then you see our boys jog out for Scotland, Ireland and France. I suppose it has more to do with the fact that the Dutch club scene is near to inconsequential and there not being a demand for higher level players. Might be a gap in the market IDK.



I wouldn't mind. I only attend one or two games a year in any case. Prefer TV in any case. If that is the condition I'd wager most South African fans would be happy enough as the Euro championship is not as much of a marathon. Its more a question of would the players mind. I wouldn't be able to answer that.
As for the loss of home advantage that would only be for potential 'Euro' games not 'Pro' games and its only two teams that have the "highveld advantage". Okay, the Sharks' humidity is also a point of difference. We certainly would lose some advantage but I don't know how far that is a consideration. I almost want to say it might even be better travel-wise for us than what SR was. I'd far sooner travel North to watch a game and playing all play off matches in a relatively small geographic zone in the same time zone would be much better than zipping back and forth over the Indian ocean from QF to SF to final.

good answers thanks, I ask simply because there has been discussion over basing new super rugby teams in NZ, a pacific team for example, and also a lot of talk about how hard it wold be to develop a real fan base when not in the community as it were, different to existing teams like yours of course

little doubt travelling to the NH will be better than to the Pacific, still a slog, 9-10 hour flight plus transit at either end it but as @TRF_heineken says, little to no time change, just day lost for travel

 

[Twistie]

Once

TBH I'm also surprised that the Netherlands hasn't looked in on our shores. There is a cultural connection (I'd reinforce what @unrated said about the vast majority of "Dutch" Saffas' Dutch lineage being buried in time) but then you see our boys jog out for Scotland, Ireland and France. I suppose it has more to do with the fact that the Dutch club scene is near to inconsequential and there not being a demand for higher level players. Might be a gap in the market IDK.



I wouldn't mind. I only attend one or two games a year in any case. Prefer TV in any case. If that is the condition I'd wager most South African fans would be happy enough as the Euro championship is not as much of a marathon. Its more a question of would the players mind. I wouldn't be able to answer that.
As for the loss of home advantage that would only be for potential 'Euro' games not 'Pro' games and its only two teams that have the "highveld advantage". Okay, the Sharks' humidity is also a point of difference. We certainly would lose some advantage but I don't know how far that is a consideration. I almost want to say it might even be better travel-wise for us than what SR was. I'd far sooner travel North to watch a game and playing all play off matches in a relatively small geographic zone in the same time zone would be much better than zipping back and forth over the Indian ocean from QF to SF to final.

Yep a gap in the market once the comp gets up and running they should try one off games in each country(Germany ,Netherlands) using SA cultural connections to build a fan base in non tradaitional rugby areas. Its a long term strategy and wont be easy (Rugby unknown,Football dominant code in both countrys) but even if you could just get 1% of each country watching games each week its something.I know i sound like a dreamer (covid raging through the world ,sports worldwide struggling for funds) just want this sport we love to grow ,get better ,stronger.I dont know if other NZ posters have said this there is a German teenager called Anton Segner who came to Nz 3 years and through hard work and determination got in Nz Schools team and is in the current Tasman Mitre 10 cup squad.He said he wants to become a allblack so all the best to him.This proves theres untapped potential out there just waiting to be used.

 

[unrated]

So the Cheetahs ended up beating a full strength Bulls side with its Springboks convincingly. Food for thought.

 

[TRF_heineken]

So the Cheetahs ended up beating a full strength Bulls side with its Springboks convincingly. Food for thought.

Cheetahs were also at full strength, at home. And it would have been a draw had the rookie Chris Smith slotted over the conversion of the Bulls try at the end.

Wouldn't say it was full strength though. We were without Gqoboka, and Jake is still testing out a few things in the Backline with movement of players here and there. Was a good game though.

 

[Al Bangor]

I can't remember a pro team of any sport being kicked out of a league here in America. Teams move from one city to another on rare occasion due to the owner's personal reasons (usually needing to make more money to pay the bills or a chance to make even more money than they currently are), but not kicked out entirely. It would get caught up in the court system for years over here. If a team is struggling financially the other teams usually help them out by way of the league office until they can move to a different city or invigorate their local marketing. Major League Rugby is doing well and has expanded from 7 teams to 13 in four years, with more planned expansion to come. One team (Colorado) dropped out after this past season which was cut short to only 5 games due to Covid-19, but that was the owner's personal choice and they'll be replaced by two more (Dallas and Los Angeles) next season. Kicking a team out of a league should be the last resort and only for a legitimate reason (an owner arrested for serious crimes, etc.)

 

[Car]

Most Afrikaans people has gone through too many generations over a hundred years to qualify for Dutch or German citizenship. Won't happen. There is only a cultural link. We can assist them with their structures and invite them to local tournaments to expose them to high level professional rugby. This is in essence what South Africa did for Argentina, and we have now signed a partnership with Georgia to help develop their structures. Their teams will spend time in South Africa in the future

Actually, when we still were a second tier nation, we had several German Saffas in our national team, I think they were by far the biggest group of all the players being eligible for us based on ancestry. I'm not sure at all if we still have any now that we're a tier three country only, the squad changed completely. Obviously there's no large-scale emigration from here to South Africa, but e.g. the daughter of a friend of my mother's spent a gap year in Cape Town, married a black (/coloured ?) guy and is living there. I know two other Germans who lived in Cape Town for some time.
Some years ago, we started getting regular coverage of rugby. First on TV, then through streaming services (DAZN, Rugby Pass). But I'm not sure which stadiums could be used that aren't too big, but that fulfil the requirements. We had that discussion in a German forum a few years ago when things still looked better here and we wondered if we'd be able to host some WC matches.