Champions Cup 24/25 - Round 1

[Leonormous Boozer]

https://www.epcrugby.com/champions-cup/matches

The most unanticipated time of the year.

Bath v La Rochelle and Bristol v Leinster seem to be the pick of the ties based on league position.

 

[Which Tyler]

Meh

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Urgh. Stormers, we don't have the depth to play on two fronts and struggling enough with injury as it is. I suspect Toulon will probably send a student side to get hammered which will give us a misplaced sense of opportunity and tempt Dobby to spread us even more thinly..

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Urgh. Stormers, we don't have the depth to play on two fronts and struggling enough with injury as it is. I suspect Toulon will probably send a student side to get hammered which will give us a misplaced sense of opportunity and tempt Dobby to spread us even more thinly..

I hate this tournament in in it's current form. I definitely want the SA teams in but something needs to be done to avoid rotation on games involving them.

If we're to persist with the current (dog ****) format the schedule needs to be changed to play the pools and knockouts in two 4 week blocks. Get the pools done in October with SA teams playing their two home games first (the boks will then stay in Europe post the European games) and play the knockouts in May. I'd prefer if the European final was the last club game of the season but the leagues wouldn't go for it.

 

[mikebrownsauce1512]

I hate this tournament in in it's current form. I definitely want the SA teams in but something needs to be done to avoid rotation on games involving them.

If we're to persist with the current (dog ****) format the schedule needs to be changed to play the pools and knockouts in two 4 week blocks. Get the pools done in October with SA teams playing their two home games first (the boks will then stay in Europe post the European games) and play the knockouts in May. I'd prefer if the European final was the last club game of the season but the leagues wouldn't go for it.

100% the format needs to be changed. Top 6 URC teams, Top 4 Prem Teams, Top 6 Top 14 teams. 4 groups of 4, top two teams go through on to the 1/4 final, semi final, final.

 

[Groundhog]

Stade also having a pretty shaky season, haven't won away all year. I could see them just throwing the kitchen sink at their home games (because this crap format allows that). That said we had a stinker against some Espoirs last year. A lot of players coming fit at the right time though. Have to question the benefit of flogging Tadhg Beirne to death after the Irish camp already did that, but I'd imagine we will have to.

A likely team of Bleueler, Barron, Ryan, Beirne, Ahern, O'Mahony, Horner, Coombes, Casey, Crowley, Nash, Nankivell, Farrell, Abrahams, Daly

O'Donoghue v Kendellen probably the only big bench call, I'd use Kendellen.

 

[munstermuffin]

Stade also having a pretty shaky season, haven't won away all year. I could see them just throwing the kitchen sink at their home games (because this crap format allows that). That said we had a stinker against some Espoirs last year. A lot of players coming fit at the right time though. Have to question the benefit of flogging Tadhg Beirne to death after the Irish camp already did that, but I'd imagine we will have to.

A likely team of Bleueler, Barron, Ryan, Beirne, Ahern, O'Mahony, Horner, Coombes, Casey, Crowley, Nash, Nankivell, Farrell, Abrahams, Daly

O'Donoghue v Kendellen probably the only big bench call, I'd use Kendellen.

We always find it ropy against teams that come with poor form and no expectations.

 

[munstermuffin]

I hate this tournament in in it's current form. I definitely want the SA teams in but something needs to be done to avoid rotation on games involving them.

If we're to persist with the current (dog ****) format the schedule needs to be changed to play the pools and knockouts in two 4 week blocks. Get the pools done in October with SA teams playing their two home games first (the boks will then stay in Europe post the European games) and play the knockouts in May. I'd prefer if the European final was the last club game of the season but the leagues wouldn't go for it.

In theory sounds great.
But money and tv dictate and that is not a good product in their eyes.
October wouldn't work as Rugby Championship is just done and Top 14 will never give up 4 week blocks, IRFU won't budge on bits too and RFU will have issues.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I definitely want the SA teams in but something needs to be done to avoid rotation on games involving them.

Plus EPCR need to compensate clubs, monetarily, for the extra travel, insurance, accommodation etc. rather than just lumping them all with a huge bill

 

[Which Tyler]

100% the format needs to be changed. Top 6 URC teams, Top 4 Prem Teams, Top 6 Top 14 teams. 4 groups of 4, top two teams go through on to the 1/4 final, semi final, final.

That, and ditch the South Africans
A] Africa =/= Europe
B] The travel is too much
C] It screws the numbers for all levels of European competition

Personally, I prefer 5, 4, 6 from the leagues, with the extra space going to the winner of the Challenge cup (especially if we count the URC as a 12 eligible teams).


Quite honestly, I was more engaged with the Challenge Cup in the old format, than I am with the current Champions Cup format - including years when Bath were in the big boys cup.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

I hate this tournament in in it's current form. I definitely want the SA teams in but something needs to be done to avoid rotation on games involving them.

If we're to persist with the current (dog ****) format the schedule needs to be changed to play the pools and knockouts in two 4 week blocks. Get the pools done in October with SA teams playing their two home games first (the boks will then stay in Europe post the European games) and play the knockouts in May. I'd prefer if the European final was the last club game of the season but the leagues wouldn't go for it.

The format and the timing is horrendous. I think with even more clued up rugby pundits in SA being confused I fully understand why it hasn't caught on over here. Our geographic isolation has always been difficult. With URC less so than Super Rugby but I fully understand fans (especially from Top 14 and Premiership) calling for our non-involvement. My suggestion would be for SA teams to perhaps be based in Europe if the scheduling makes sense and the amount of games can be reduced. Maybe each province partners with an adopted tier 2 nations. For instance, I can see one of the Stormers or Sharks being based in Liboa. Bulls in Amsterdam, that type of thing. Maybe Portugal, Netherlands, Germany and Belgium makes sense. We could see it as an opportunity to bring top level rugby to emerging rugby markets and also a way to expand the fan bases of our own sides perhaps. Just brain storming while typing now. Also just an option to simply exclude us from the cup. I don't know if that undermines the URC a bit though what with our teams would end up being fresher.

That, and ditch the South Africans
A] Africa =/= Europe
B] The travel is too much
C] It screws the numbers for all levels of European competition

Personally, I prefer 5, 4, 6 from the leagues, with the extra space going to the winner of the Challenge cup (especially if we count the URC as a 12 eligible teams).


Quite honestly, I was more engaged with the Challenge Cup in the old format, than I am with the current Champions Cup format - including years when Bath were in the big boys cup.

Smaller is better for sure. But the money lost will have to be recovered somehow otherwise it probably won't be auctioned I suppose.

 

[The Seeker]

Meh

I feel the same way.

 

[Which Tyler]

Smaller is better for sure. But the money lost will have to be recovered somehow otherwise it probably won't be auctioned I suppose.

Better quality products attract bigger audiences and more investment (TV, advertising, ***le sponsors...)
Currently, the Champ Cup is less attractive than any of the domestic leagues that provide teams, and probably less interest than my suggested 2nd tier.
3rd tier may struggle for investment, but that would be teams already not involved in the Champ Cup, and would be for the purpose of spreading the game, and giving the newly promoted Prem and T14 team an easier introduction to European Rugby.

Granted, it would lose the South African audience, but I'm good with that. I'd be amazed if the current system attracts more investment than the old Heineken Cup, even with an additional (large) nation. It's certainly lost all the prestige and interest.
It's gone from "must watch all the Heineken Cup games, all the English teams in the Challenge, and maybe the odd extra" to "Can I be bothered to watch my own team's match?"
And that's with Bath in a pool without any South Africans.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Better quality products attract bigger audiences and more investment (TV, advertising, ***le sponsors...)
Currently, the Champ Cup is less attractive than any of the domestic leagues that provide teams, and probably less interest than my suggested 2nd tier.
3rd tier may struggle for investment, but that would be teams already not involved in the Champ Cup, and would be for the purpose of spreading the game, and giving the newly promoted Prem and T14 team an easier introduction to European Rugby.

Granted, it would lose the South African audience, but I'm good with that. I'd be amazed if the current system attracts more investment than the old Heineken Cup, even with an additional (large) nation. It's certainly lost all the prestige and interest.
It's gone from "must watch all the Heineken Cup games, all the English teams in the Challenge, and maybe the odd extra" to "Can I be bothered to watch my own team's match?"
And that's with Bath in a pool without any South Africans.

Still don't get what the issue with the SA teams is (if travel was comped / subsidised). They have improved the URC no end and are fixtures I look out for each season, if teams were in a position where the effect of travel could be reduced by the schedule and not make a loss on expenses I think it could only be positive for the level and entertainment value of the competition.

I don't think the tournament has made back the sponsorship losses from taking ***le sponsorship off Heineken. Certainly not when inflation is taken into account. The tournament has been mismanaged since it's rebrand and only really saved by a handful of teams with the resources to take it seriously like Sarries and Toulon initially and now Leinster, Toulouse and La Rochelle. It used to be the best rugby competition in the world in my opinion and now it's only worth watching two rounds a year in addition to some interesting match ups relying on luck of the draw.