Canadian November Tour dates announced.

[LittleGuy]

Don't have much time guys but will post the matches and give some analysis later there is quite a bit of controversy on the games taking place in Colwyn Bay Wales, when they were originally planned for the stoop in fact the whole schedule is bizarre, why can't Canada just do a tour of the Pacific islands or Eastern Europe instead of playing these teams in front of twelve people in North Wales.

Friday, November 9th
vs. Samoa
Colwyn Bay, Wales

Saturday, November 17th
vs. Russia
Colwyn Bay, Wales

Friday, November 23rd
vs. New Zealand Maori
Oxford, England

 

[Draggs]

There might actually be a decent crowd in Colwyn Bay.
The Wales U20 home matches were hosted at Parc Eirias and the atmosphere looked great. Really getting into rugby.
I'd hope that in a few years we actually play a minor test up there (at least Wales 'A').

 

[LittleGuy]

The Eagles are very upset here is the link to an article ont their greivances

http://rugbymag.com/usa-men/5775-eagles-fall-tour-stuck-in-outskirts.html

 

[Shaggy]

Don't have much time guys but will post the matches and give some analysis later there is quite a bit of controversy on the games taking place in Colwyn Bay Wales, when they were originally planned for the stoop in fact the whole schedule is bizarre, why can't Canada just do a tour of the Pacific islands or Eastern Europe instead of playing these teams in front of twelve people in North Wales.

Friday, November 9th
vs. Samoa
Colwyn Bay, Wales

Friday, November 16th
vs. Russia
Colwyn Bay, Wales

Friday, November 23rd
vs. New Zealand Maori
Oxford, England

It looks like Canada have some tough games ... hopefully it will be televised here

 

[LittleGuy]

It looks like Canada have some tough games ... hopefully it will be televised here

I'm hoping the two tests will be picked up, I would be very surprised if the Maoari game was anything more than a stream.

 

[psychic duck]

Don't have much time guys but will post the matches and give some analysis later there is quite a bit of controversy on the games taking place in Colwyn Bay Wales, when they were originally planned for the stoop in fact the whole schedule is bizarre, why can't Canada just do a tour of the Pacific islands or Eastern Europe instead of playing these teams in front of twelve people in North Wales.

Friday, November 9th
vs. Samoa
Colwyn Bay, Wales

Friday, November 16th
vs. Russia
Colwyn Bay, Wales

Friday, November 23rd
vs. New Zealand Maori
Oxford, England

You're exactly right, the whole schedule is bizarre.

I don't understand why no teams simply do a three international match (Romania, Georgia, Russia) tour of Eastern Europe. That would be a great tour for Canada or USA, as all the teams give them a good match.

I also don't think there is much need for Canada or USA to play Tonga and Samoa, when from next year they will play them annually. They will play Spain (who have improved to be worthy of playing Canada) on much fewer occasions so the opportunity should be taken, much better for the players to visit than North Wales as well.

By the way these Colwyn Bay matches have been branded the mundane ***le of "IRB International Rugby Series".

Georgia only has two matches scheduled in November, why not USA or Canada play the Lelos in Tblisi?

At least these fixtures are better than nothing though. Just a shame they won't have any atmosphere at them.

Now let's hope all Tier 2 teams get their top players available.

There might actually be a decent crowd in Colwyn Bay.
The Wales U20 home matches were hosted at Parc Eirias and the atmosphere looked great. Really getting into rugby.
I'd hope that in a few years we actually play a minor test up there (at least Wales 'A').

Sincerely doubt it unless there happens to be a large Russian, Tongan and North American community up there.

Surely to grow the game in a country with large commercial potential such as Russia it's best to play a good side like Canada at home. Even if it is in that boring city of Sochi where nobody watches, 500 crowd there is better than 500 in Colwyn Bay.

 

[LittleGuy]

I'm thinking Russia will put out their top(or close to it) squad. More intruiging will be the squad selections that Samoa and the Maori have. It's been some time since Canada played Samoa so I'm looking forward to how they match up. I'm assuming Canada will get most of the pro's out since the games are being held in England where most of them are based. A 2-1 tour would be nice, it's ashame they couldn't find a fourth game to play even if it had been a club side.

 

[psychic duck]

Gareth Rees is a joke for lending his voice to the IRB spin. It is a joke that the IRB are sacrificing growing the game in new countries by denying them the chance to host sides like Canada, USA, Tonga and Samoa in favour of of playing at Colwyn Bay in front of 200 people just because they backed the building of a stadium there. Credit to Nigel Melville for sticking up for his nation.

"It is vital for our programme that our team plays matches at this level and we look forward to renewing the rivalry with Samoa, Russia, and NZ Maori."

"All three matches are big challenges and well above the standard of play we can create domestically. It is equally important for our players to be immersed in the steep rugby culture of the UK and the atmosphere around all the November internationals. We are grateful to the IRB, Welsh Rugby Union and the Rugby Football Union for hosting us."

 

[Shaggy]

I'm hoping the two tests will be picked up, I would be very surprised if the Maoari game was anything more than a stream.

Yeah, that's a shame, as I'd like to watch all of these games but I'm particularly interested in the game against NZ Maori (of course)

If i try to put a positive spin on the choice of venue, I guess it's good for the european based players, and Samoa are likely to field a team that is close to the strongest side they could possibly field ... No disrespect to next years Samoan side that will play the likes of Canada, as it may well win the tournament, but they will be without their European based players, so the November sides might be a better indication of where all of these sides are at, compared to one another.

I'm not totally against having one area hosting most of the games for the purpose of developing the game in a particular region, as long as they are fair about it, and give the participating nations a chance to host in the years to come ... I think the US coach had a good point about them not getting to host any games - they are part of the NH, and therefore should get to host some of the November games.

With the IRB's desire to grow the game in non-traditional markets, and the inclusion of Rugby 7's in the next Olympics, it just akes sense to let these tier 2 & 3 sides host matches ... good on Wales for trying to promote the game in an area that is a strong Soccer area, but wouldn't the have more success if Wales actually played a couple of games there?

 

[psychic duck]

Yeah, that's a shame, as I'd like to watch all of these games but I'm particularly interested in the game against NZ Maori (of course)

If i try to put a positive spin on the choice of venue, I guess it's good for the european based players, and Samoa are likely to field a team that is close to the strongest side they could possibly field ... No disrespect to next years Samoan side that will play the likes of Canada, as it may well win the tournament, but they will be without their European based players, so the November sides might be a better indication of where all of these sides are at, compared to one another.

I'm not totally against having one area hosting most of the games for the purpose of developing the game in a particular region, as long as they are fair about it, and give the participating nations a chance to host in the years to come ... I think the US coach had a good point about them not getting to host any games - they are part of the NH, and therefore should get to host some of the November games.

With the IRB's desire to grow the game in non-traditional markets, and the inclusion of Rugby 7's in the next Olympics, it just akes sense to let these tier 2 & 3 sides host matches ... good on Wales for trying to promote the game in an area that is a strong Soccer area, but wouldn't the have more success if Wales actually played a couple of games there?

The matches will be unlikely promote the game there at all, I doubt many will turn up, it's just the WRU getting the IRB to force it upon the Tier 2 sides so that the stadium they built is used. There is no thought in it from the Tier 2 nations perspective whatsoever.

By the way the US coach, was not just saying that they could host games, he also said that London would be a lot more convenient than a relatively sparse place in North Wales in a town which has just 30,000 people. It would require 1/5 of the population of the town to sell out the match, so it is destined to be played in front of nobody.

 

[Shaggy]

The matches will be unlikely promote the game there at all, I doubt many will turn up, it's just the WRU getting the IRB to force it upon the Tier 2 sides so that the stadium they built is used. There is no thought in it from the Tier 2 nations perspective whatsoever.

By the way the US coach, was not just saying that they could host games, he also said that London would be a lot more convenient than a relatively sparse place in North Wales in a town which has just 30,000 people. It would require 1/5 of the population of the town to sell out the match, so it is destined to be played in front of nobody.

Exactly, yet if Wales had played had played against any/all of those sides scheduled to play there, or even against an invitational XV of some kind, I'm sure it would spark more interest, and probably sell out the ground for each game.

 

[Nielsch]

This is just stupid. A tour of Eastern Europe (Russia, Georgia, Romania) or Southern Europa (Portugal, Spain, Italy) would make much more sense.

 

[Nielsch]

Anyway I'm going to the France - Argentina game in Lille!

 

[Nielsch]

I think it would make even more sense for the USA to play in Heidelberg, Germany. Rugby is extremely popular over there and it has a US army base.

 

[Canucks]

I was so excited when I heard games would be over here. Then I saw the words North Wales. I know the Welsh are extremely supportive of the sport, but this makes no sense. London or even Midlands would have been perfect. Even Cardiff or Edinburgh would've worked. All these areas are easily accessible and have a lot of people who would be interested in the games. But they chose North Wales.

To show an example. I cannot make the Samoa game as it starts at 1800 on a friday and they is no way I'm getting there in time. The game against Russiia is on a Saturday but there's no way I'm taking a 3.5 hour train journey home after 2 games.
But for the Maori game in Oxford, I've got a large group of guys from my rugby club coming along and Oxford is quite good for a night out.

Even though the first 2 games are only 3.5 hours away, they might as well be in Canada.

 

[LittleGuy]

I was so excited when I heard games would be over here. Then I saw the words North Wales. I know the Welsh are extremely supportive of the sport, but this makes no sense. London or even Midlands would have been perfect. Even Cardiff or Edinburgh would've worked. All these areas are easily accessible and have a lot of people who would be interested in the games. But they chose North Wales.

To show an example. I cannot make the Samoa game as it starts at 1800 on a friday and they is no way I'm getting there in time. The game against Russiia is on a Saturday but there's no way I'm taking a 3.5 hour train journey home after 2 games.
But for the Maori game in Oxford, I've got a large group of guys from my rugby club coming along and Oxford is quite good for a night out.

Even though the first 2 games are only 3.5 hours away, they might as well be in Canada.

I think this is really the nail in the coffin to this tour, London would have had a pile of expats from the particiapting sides attending as well, and although I don't think the Stoop would have been packed, a crowd of 5-6,000 could have been attainable. The time of the Samoa game on a Friday is going to make it awkward for Canadian viewers over here to watch as that will be a 1 p.m. start for Eastern time viewers and even earlier for our West coast friends.

Rugby Canada must have had their press release wrong as the IRB is stating the games the 2nd week are on Saturday and not Friday I'll try to get clarification and fix the first post in the thread if possible.

 

[psychic duck]

I know the Welsh are extremely supportive of the sport.

As you can tell by the great crowds that come to regional matches ...

London or even Midlands would have been perfect.

Not really ... Russia or Canada would have been perfect.

The idea that all European teams must travel in June and host in November must change.

Currently, USA and Canada normally host matches in June. But in fact they could play at home in November.

Whilst Russia MUST start to have incoming tours in June.

They currently play all their home games in February/March, and sometimes November (not this year).

But they simply are too cold in the winter to use much of the country. So their matches are forced to Sochi for climate reasons, and the people there really don't care about rugby like they do in other places.

Even Cardiff or Edinburgh would've worked. All these areas are easily accessible and have a lot of people who would be interested in the games.

Not really a lot of people, just a few more people than North Wales.

 

[Canucks]

As you can tell by the great crowds that come to regional matches ...



Not really ... Russia or Canada would have been perfect.

The idea that all European teams must travel in June and host in November must change.

Currently, USA and Canada normally host matches in June. But in fact they could play at home in November.

Whilst Russia MUST start to have incoming tours in June.

They currently play all their home games in February/March, and sometimes November (not this year).

But they simply are too cold in the winter to use much of the country. So their matches are forced to Sochi for climate reasons, and the people there really don't care about rugby like they do in other places.



Not really a lot of people, just a few more people than North Wales.

Heaven forbid someone says something different then you.

The reason why these teams are playing the UK as opposed to their own countries is travel costs. Only Russia really has a lot of their players not based in western Europe. The rfu and wru sponsor and host the events and the other unions get the matches they need. Essentially the options were play lesser competition o n your dime and make a little profit or play good competition but make has lesser costs and lesser profit.

Even though you may live in the UK, I feel your being overly negative about other parts. For the current arrangement north Wales is a bad idea. Yes Welsh people are very supportive of rugby, to say otherwise is ignorant however the current location is not accessible enough to attrAct a large crowd. London, Cardiff ans Edinburgh are international cities that are easily accessible and have a lot to offer to any potential visitors. As well, a lot of expats live in these areas.
Perfect example is oxford. Easy for the rugby crazed midlands and London to access. Has a pretty decent night life and overall a lot to offer to visitors.
Please remember when tours are scheduled there are a lot of logistical challenges as well as business challenges to them. While most unions receive government funding, they still cannot afford to loss money just because.

 

[LittleGuy]

Whats even more bizarre about this arrangement is the fact that these games haven't actually been changed into a mini tournament. This is basically a Churchill Cup type schedule for Canada only without a trophy and even the limited interest that cup attracted.

As Melhor told me on FB, this is an epic fail by the IRB. It seems like things were organized too last minute especially with the change of venue. I'm not completely sure but I thought one of the reasons they wanted to have the games in England was to help create interest in 2015 and get an early start to promoting neutral teams to UK fans. At least having the games in London this would have been a plausible reason and have had a decent atmosphere surrounding it.

In Colwyn Bay no one's going to see these games and I'm worried that no one will bother sending a TV crew down to them and they won't even be broadcasted. Tickets are 15 pounds apparently for a doubleheader with a small capacity stadium, I'm thinking the organizers are expecting only a couple of thousand at most.

 

[Canucks]

The WRU aren't doing Tier 2 any favours. They got the IRB to move the venue for their own purpose, so that they could use their investment in Eirias Park. I've heard them trying to sell it as them "helping Tier 2", which is nonsense they are just doing it for themselves.

If they want to promote the game in North Wales they should promote it themselves, not get the IRB to shift other nations to do it for them. Not that a Canada Russia match "promotes the game" in North Wales that much anyway.

The best scenario as has been pointed out, would be for teams like Canada/USA to play teams like Romania/Spain/Georgia/Russia. The IRB have mucked up this fixture schedule so much that Romania and Georgia both only have two matches and have a spare weekend not doing anything, they would be good opponents plus they are free in the schedule. No matches ideally would be in neutral venues.

If you were forced to play in neutral venues, then a global city like London is best, or a city with strong links to a nation such as USA playing in the US army base town somebody mentioned.



Welsh people are very supportive of national team rugby. Plus local derbies.

Do some research, if the Welsh regions play in front of poor attendances in areas where rugby is supposedly most popular in South Wales.

Then what chance does Russia v Canada and Tonga v USA have of being well supported. There haven't exactly been a lot of Welsh posters here saying how excited they are about these matches coming. I bet during the time not one Welsh fan will care at all about these matches, they will all be focused on the national team's performance and would probably rather watch that on TV than supporting these matches.

A thread on Gwlad Rugby doesn't look like it has much enthusiasm either from Welsh fans.



Are you the tourism ambassador for Oxford?

Ok so you agree with me now (Aside from the doing the tier 2 nations a favour.) I feel the game scheduling could be much better but the whole concept of hosting this series is meant to help the tier 2 nations. I have stated these reasons above. As well, I hate the location for reasons said above and I'm glad you agree with me that London is good location.

I sorry you seem to think I need to do research but I'm glad to see you are agreeing with me. Wales is supportive of rugby (national teams and local derbies are in fact games of rugby.) I imagine that this series would attract some more than normal fans but a town of only 30000 people in a difficult to reach place is not going to have any decent crowds. Hence the reason of holding this in Colwyn Bay is a dumb idea.

I'm sorry to inform you that I am not the tourism ambassador for Oxford. I felt I wasn't doing much of a good job at selling it anyways however I feel I did a good job showing the pros of Oxford vs Colwyn Bay.


I'm hoping all these games are televised so the national teams participating can make some cash but I agree with you Little Guy, it doesn't seem likely.