G
Gavin
Guest
England will always be a force when it come to World Cups because they always front up when it really matters, sometimes anyway.. They have the players, they just are missing something..
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M
MostlyMunster
Guest
Why's nobody talking about France? England really dont have a hope in hell, there're like five better teams than them in the competition. Enough said. France have been quietly building an excellent side, the best French team in many years. I'd give them an excellent chance.
Also, New Zealand are fallible. Ireland almost had them in Eden Park this summer.
Also, New Zealand are fallible. Ireland almost had them in Eden Park this summer.
O
O'Rothlain
Guest
That's why Ireland will win the World Cup.
S
shiznit
Guest
yeah, ireland nearly beat NZ at eden park.....
just remember that NZ were resting the likes of Jerry Collins and Dan Carter. it shows you how good Ireland are.... they have never beaten NZ.... how pathetic....
just remember that NZ were resting the likes of Jerry Collins and Dan Carter. it shows you how good Ireland are.... they have never beaten NZ.... how pathetic....
S
ShowMe
Guest
oh absolutely, i think even though the ABs are showing the best form, France has been moving under the radar, beating the wallabies at home last year and claiming the springbok scalp at home and in SA, early signs i tell ya!...the host nation are just goin by their business very quietly, infact i wouldnt be surprised if they were at the same stage as NZ in terms of building towards the WC next year, its just that they dont have the spotlight NZ have goin into the WC.
T
tituslechmakus
Guest
oh absolutely, i think even though the ABs are showing the best form, France has been moving under the radar, beating the wallabies at home last year and claiming the springbok scalp at home and in SA, early signs i tell ya!...the host nation are just goin by their business very quietly, infact i wouldnt be surprised if they were at the same stage as NZ in terms of building towards the WC next year, its just that they dont have the spotlight NZ have goin into the WC.
[/b][/quote]
nobody is talkin about france 'cause we are not world champion or gran favourits of the wc ... but we've started preparing the wc by playin every 3 days !!! silly isn't it ? ... not at all ... why ? 'caus the clubs won't play during the 6N and the autumn tests. it shows a will of the FFR to prepare the wc on a long period of time. i don't know how they manage in other countries but this year top 14 schedule is not usual, due to the wc.
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Caledfwlch
Guest
thats absolutely ********. the western force nearly beat a full strength crusaders team this year. and most importantly, that test they played wasn't even a properly assembled team. the players were scattered and were in two teams. in shambles really. they had little time to gel and what nought.
S
ShowMe
Guest
oh absolutely, i think even though the ABs are showing the best form, France has been moving under the radar, beating the wallabies at home last year and claiming the springbok scalp at home and in SA, early signs i tell ya!...the host nation are just goin by their business very quietly, infact i wouldnt be surprised if they were at the same stage as NZ in terms of building towards the WC next year, its just that they dont have the spotlight NZ have goin into the WC.
[/b][/quote]
nobody is talkin about france 'cause we are not world champion or gran favourits of the wc ... but we've started preparing the wc by playin every 3 days !!! silly isn't it ? ... not at all ... why ? 'caus the clubs won't play during the 6N and the autumn tests. it shows a will of the FFR to prepare the wc on a long period of time. i don't know how they manage in other countries but this year top 14 schedule is not usual, due to the wc.
[/b][/quote]
Hmmm, world champs? no obviously and neither are the ABs, but favourites yes...i think come knockout time you guys will be even stronger favourites, right now its just a good position for the hosts compared to say if NZ were hosting it and the ABs were playing with the form they are right now, itd be alot of expectation for us to win and all the attention, where as for the host nation it seems like a nice quiet buildup, better situation if you ask me.
K
Karlo
Guest
Did you watch that game? New Zealand had Three teams at that point whilst the coaching staff were seeing all the players abilities. Yes Ireland did well but it wasn't against the strongest All Blacks team and im sure they would get dealt to if they were to play them at the moment.
D
DonBilly
Guest
Did you watch that game? New Zealand had Three teams at that point whilst the coaching staff were seeing all the players abilities. Yes Ireland did well but it wasn't against the strongest All Blacks team and im sure they would get dealt to if they were to play them at the moment.
[/b][/quote]
New-Zealanders seem always very effusive about the depth of their national side. NZ can field three very strong teams which would be competing each other for the #1, 2 and 3 positions in IRB ranking if the rules allowed this. Now when one of these teams faces difficulties to beat an opponent we are systematically told that if such or such players was in the team it would have been much easier. This is not very consistent, isn't it?
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tituslechmakus
Guest
Did you watch that game? New Zealand had Three teams at that point whilst the coaching staff were seeing all the players abilities. Yes Ireland did well but it wasn't against the strongest All Blacks team and im sure they would get dealt to if they were to play them at the moment.
[/b][/quote]
hum this shows why nz isn't going to win this year again. as i've already said, SH nations are too confident. but i think the gap between NH and SH has decreased a lot in the last few years ... and it would be better for them to notice that. it would be good for their "arrogance" to have a france-ireland wc final !!! a bit of humility is never a bad thing. if ABs want to win the 2011 wc they'll need a crap wc (like being kicked out in 1/4) in 2007. it will motivate them a lot. otherwise its gona be as always (AB will always be the gran favourits of the wc).
D
DonBilly
Guest
Did you watch that game? New Zealand had Three teams at that point whilst the coaching staff were seeing all the players abilities. Yes Ireland did well but it wasn't against the strongest All Blacks team and im sure they would get dealt to if they were to play them at the moment.
[/b][/quote]
hum this shows why nz isn't going to win this year again. as i've already said, SH nations are too confident. but i think the gap between NH and SH has decreased a lot in the last few years ... and it would be better for them to notice that. it would be good for their "arrogance" to have a france-ireland wc final !!! a bit of humility is never a bad thing. if ABs want to win the 2011 wc they'll need a crap wc (like being kicked out in 1/4) in 2007. it will motivate them a lot. otherwise its gona be as always (AB will always be the gran favourits of the wc).
[/b][/quote]
Many people believe that there's kind of fatality when it comes to NZ and the RWC and that history will repeat again and again independently of the game evolution and of the new generations of players which arrive. I am not part of them. NZ will be very strong and will have done more than their homework to reach the final. Having said that there's always some part of uncertainty in sport and this is one of the reason why we like it. Having the best team with the best preparation decreases the likelyhood of the defeat but doesn't nullify it. Although I'd like very much les Bleus to win the suprem ***le I consider that NZ are objectively next year RWC favourites. France should not be that far away and with the home advantage they could be in form to upset the AB. That's my subjective wish.
S
ShowMe
Guest
Did you watch that game? New Zealand had Three teams at that point whilst the coaching staff were seeing all the players abilities. Yes Ireland did well but it wasn't against the strongest All Blacks team and im sure they would get dealt to if they were to play them at the moment.
[/b][/quote]
hum this shows why nz isn't going to win this year again. as i've already said, SH nations are too confident. but i think the gap between NH and SH has decreased a lot in the last few years ... and it would be better for them to notice that. it would be good for their "arrogance" to have a france-ireland wc final !!! a bit of humility is never a bad thing. if ABs want to win the 2011 wc they'll need a crap wc (like being kicked out in 1/4) in 2007. it will motivate them a lot. otherwise its gona be as always (AB will always be the gran favourits of the wc).
[/b][/quote]
Well, i dunno if its really arrogance, hes right in saying the ABs team that ireland played this year wasnt our strongest, thats a fact. But in saying that i know where youre coming from with the arrogant kiwis and I can assure you i am not one of them. lol...I mean, I posted earlier in this thread about Englands serious chances of retaining the WC and how France are quiet favourites, recently claiming boks and wallaby scalps showing good form, I fully acknowledge the NH teams capabilities of taking out the SH teams...the threat is as big as ever from the NH, thats for sure.
K
Karlo
Guest
Did you watch that game? New Zealand had Three teams at that point whilst the coaching staff were seeing all the players abilities. Yes Ireland did well but it wasn't against the strongest All Blacks team and im sure they would get dealt to if they were to play them at the moment.
[/b][/quote]
hum this shows why nz isn't going to win this year again. as i've already said, SH nations are too confident. but i think the gap between NH and SH has decreased a lot in the last few years ... and it would be better for them to notice that. it would be good for their "arrogance" to have a france-ireland wc final !!! a bit of humility is never a bad thing. if ABs want to win the 2011 wc they'll need a crap wc (like being kicked out in 1/4) in 2007. it will motivate them a lot. otherwise its gona be as always (AB will always be the gran favourits of the wc).
[/b][/quote]
Well, i dunno if its really arrogance, hes right in saying the ABs team that ireland played this year wasnt our strongest, thats a fact. But in saying that i know where youre coming from with the arrogant kiwis and I can assure you i am not one of them. lol...I mean, I posted earlier in this thread about Englands serious chances of retaining the WC and how France are quiet favourites, recently claiming boks and wallaby scalps showing good form, I fully acknowledge the NH teams capabilities of taking out the SH teams...the threat is as big as ever from the NH, thats for sure.
[/b][/quote]
How am i an arrogant Kiwi? Do you seriously think Ireland would beat the All Blacks no.1 side? And i want you to answer that question with a yes or no.
S
ShowMe
Guest
Did you watch that game? New Zealand had Three teams at that point whilst the coaching staff were seeing all the players abilities. Yes Ireland did well but it wasn't against the strongest All Blacks team and im sure they would get dealt to if they were to play them at the moment.
[/b][/quote]
hum this shows why nz isn't going to win this year again. as i've already said, SH nations are too confident. but i think the gap between NH and SH has decreased a lot in the last few years ... and it would be better for them to notice that. it would be good for their "arrogance" to have a france-ireland wc final !!! a bit of humility is never a bad thing. if ABs want to win the 2011 wc they'll need a crap wc (like being kicked out in 1/4) in 2007. it will motivate them a lot. otherwise its gona be as always (AB will always be the gran favourits of the wc).
[/b][/quote]
Well, i dunno if its really arrogance, hes right in saying the ABs team that ireland played this year wasnt our strongest, thats a fact. But in saying that i know where youre coming from with the arrogant kiwis and I can assure you i am not one of them. lol...I mean, I posted earlier in this thread about Englands serious chances of retaining the WC and how France are quiet favourites, recently claiming boks and wallaby scalps showing good form, I fully acknowledge the NH teams capabilities of taking out the SH teams...the threat is as big as ever from the NH, thats for sure.
[/b][/quote]
How am i an arrogant Kiwi? Do you seriously think Ireland would beat the All Blacks no.1 side? And i want you to answer that question with a yes or no.
[/b][/quote]
:huh: who me?
lol
If it is then I was only responding to ***uslechmakus stereotypical claims, I wasnt implying you were an arrogant kiwi, in which im sure youre not.
G
Gulli
Guest
England definately can win the world cup, but i dont think they will... our backline is pathethic when it comes to attacking, our 10,12 +13 arent creative enough (whoever we decide on) and i dont think even brian ashton will be able to turn that around in a year. much as it hurts to say it i think semi's at best this time around 
A
An Tarbh
Guest
On overall post world cup performances you wouldn't give England a chance but the draw has been reasonably kind to them. At the moment I wouldn't expect them to top the group ahead of SA which would then give them a qf with Australia, who let's face while they have improved they're still not world beaters and England on their day are more than capable of beating them especially with their forward power and while France in the semi final won't exactly be a cakewalk either who knows what their mental state would be given their mental collapse at the same stage in Australia.
There's such a fine line between success and failure, England could have easily won the grand slam in 2005, having lost their 3 matches by 1 score each, and Andy Robinson would have been hailed as the greatest thing.
A case can be made for 8 teams to win the world cup but it is about having the little things go in your favour, a dodgy call, an awkward bounce, a missed kick.
There's such a fine line between success and failure, England could have easily won the grand slam in 2005, having lost their 3 matches by 1 score each, and Andy Robinson would have been hailed as the greatest thing.
A case can be made for 8 teams to win the world cup but it is about having the little things go in your favour, a dodgy call, an awkward bounce, a missed kick.
C
cwans
Guest
There is an article by Grant Fox about the current English setup and it is based on what he's read from the English press:
'Arrogant' English in disarray
08 October 2006
By GRANT FOX
Almost 12 months out from the world cup and the last winners of the Webb Ellis trophy - and the All Blacks' opening opposition on their forthcoming European tour - are looking in horrible shape.
Things haven't been great in the England camp for some time now.
Last week British newspapers revealed scathing details from an internal review of England's coaching staff by the Rugby Football Union after the dismal Six Nations. Head coach Andy Robinson and his support staff can't have found it pleasurable reading, especially as the players were interviewed for it.
According to the Sunday Times the review equally damned all the many coaches in the England set-up, although it didn't single out Robinson, as "egotistical, arrogant and patronising".
The whole scene was labelled as "a culture of arrogance".
Robinson kept his job but three key assistants were shown the door.
The report is highly embarrassing for the RFU.
It underlines just how delicate the balance is between players and coaching staff and how respect between the two parties is the bedrock of a successful team.
From some of the comments, it's clear the relationship between the players and coaching staff had badly broken down.
Rightly or wrongly, the players felt some support coaches were unapproachable and the relationship rapidly became dysfunctional.
Rule No1 of coaching is: Treat people properly. On the face of it, that doesn't appear to have happened.
The bold headlines around the leaked report suggest England is not well placed to make an impact on the world cup in France next year, let alone dent the All Black juggernaut at Twickenham next month.
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Many will take pleasure in England's travails. Their strongest critics like to mock them as a team that "fell over the line and then fell apart" after winning the last world cup, pointing to their abysmal record since 2003.
That's a little uncharitable.
We all know England's record since the cup has been poor. Given the massive amount of money in the game there and the number of players, it is absurd that England struggles.
However, we also know England has had some long-time obstacles towards establishing itself as a consistent international force - not the least being the now almost decade-long club v country war.
But 'm aware that recent history suggests fortunes can change dramatically in the 12 months leading up to a world cup.
Think of the 1990 and 2002 Wallabies. Hardly set the world on fire, did they?
The 1994 Springboks? Again, hardly world-beaters.
As an All Black supporter, I hope England doesn't wake up to the fundamental change it needs to make to its playing style. England seems obsessed with a contact game. If it begins to develop a style of game where it seeks space rather than contact, the rest of the rugby world should be a little concerned.
They still have time to get it right but will need to start making some fundamental changes to their game, starting with their clash against the All Blacks.
They've taken a step towards that by installing Rob Andrew over the top of Robinson as commander-in-chief of England's management and coaching staff, and sacking the support coaches the players had lost faith in.
Many in the game will not mourn the loss of support coaches and will nod in approval at the RFU report's conclusion that some of England's ancillary staff "seemed to have very little to do".
That's not to suggest specialist coaches don't have a role. Of course they do.
But I believe they bring greater value when they are brought into the team environment on an "as needed" basis.
When you think massive coaching support casts, it's hard not to think of Sir Clive Woodward's 2005 Lions.
I recall when Wales assistant coach Scott Johnson, now with the Wallabies, arrived in Auckland early in the tour and didn't think he would be able to get down to Invercargill for the match against Southland via commercial airlines in time.
No worries.
Johnson was soon out at Mangere, jumping onboard the Lions' chartered 737 and heading south. There were only three other people on the plane.
If the RFU's controversial report achieves anything, hopefully it will lead to the end of England and the Lions' turning up here with a cast of thousands.
# Grant Fox is a former All Blacks first five-eighths.
Taken from http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3822118a2201,00.html
'Arrogant' English in disarray
08 October 2006
By GRANT FOX
Almost 12 months out from the world cup and the last winners of the Webb Ellis trophy - and the All Blacks' opening opposition on their forthcoming European tour - are looking in horrible shape.
Things haven't been great in the England camp for some time now.
Last week British newspapers revealed scathing details from an internal review of England's coaching staff by the Rugby Football Union after the dismal Six Nations. Head coach Andy Robinson and his support staff can't have found it pleasurable reading, especially as the players were interviewed for it.
According to the Sunday Times the review equally damned all the many coaches in the England set-up, although it didn't single out Robinson, as "egotistical, arrogant and patronising".
The whole scene was labelled as "a culture of arrogance".
Robinson kept his job but three key assistants were shown the door.
The report is highly embarrassing for the RFU.
It underlines just how delicate the balance is between players and coaching staff and how respect between the two parties is the bedrock of a successful team.
From some of the comments, it's clear the relationship between the players and coaching staff had badly broken down.
Rightly or wrongly, the players felt some support coaches were unapproachable and the relationship rapidly became dysfunctional.
Rule No1 of coaching is: Treat people properly. On the face of it, that doesn't appear to have happened.
The bold headlines around the leaked report suggest England is not well placed to make an impact on the world cup in France next year, let alone dent the All Black juggernaut at Twickenham next month.
Advertisement
Advertisement
Many will take pleasure in England's travails. Their strongest critics like to mock them as a team that "fell over the line and then fell apart" after winning the last world cup, pointing to their abysmal record since 2003.
That's a little uncharitable.
We all know England's record since the cup has been poor. Given the massive amount of money in the game there and the number of players, it is absurd that England struggles.
However, we also know England has had some long-time obstacles towards establishing itself as a consistent international force - not the least being the now almost decade-long club v country war.
But 'm aware that recent history suggests fortunes can change dramatically in the 12 months leading up to a world cup.
Think of the 1990 and 2002 Wallabies. Hardly set the world on fire, did they?
The 1994 Springboks? Again, hardly world-beaters.
As an All Black supporter, I hope England doesn't wake up to the fundamental change it needs to make to its playing style. England seems obsessed with a contact game. If it begins to develop a style of game where it seeks space rather than contact, the rest of the rugby world should be a little concerned.
They still have time to get it right but will need to start making some fundamental changes to their game, starting with their clash against the All Blacks.
They've taken a step towards that by installing Rob Andrew over the top of Robinson as commander-in-chief of England's management and coaching staff, and sacking the support coaches the players had lost faith in.
Many in the game will not mourn the loss of support coaches and will nod in approval at the RFU report's conclusion that some of England's ancillary staff "seemed to have very little to do".
That's not to suggest specialist coaches don't have a role. Of course they do.
But I believe they bring greater value when they are brought into the team environment on an "as needed" basis.
When you think massive coaching support casts, it's hard not to think of Sir Clive Woodward's 2005 Lions.
I recall when Wales assistant coach Scott Johnson, now with the Wallabies, arrived in Auckland early in the tour and didn't think he would be able to get down to Invercargill for the match against Southland via commercial airlines in time.
No worries.
Johnson was soon out at Mangere, jumping onboard the Lions' chartered 737 and heading south. There were only three other people on the plane.
If the RFU's controversial report achieves anything, hopefully it will lead to the end of England and the Lions' turning up here with a cast of thousands.
# Grant Fox is a former All Blacks first five-eighths.
Taken from http://www.stuff.co.nz/stuff/0,2106,3822118a2201,00.html
C
Canadian_Rugby_Guy
Guest
If England's going to go forward. It's gotta shorten the GP and kill the EDF cup or put different clubs into it. Coaching is not helping them either but I'm no expert on tactics so I won't comment on that. I do know however that it's difficult to make ANY sort of progress when half your bloody squad is injured.
D
DonBilly
Guest
Well they used to play as many games as nowadays when they won the RWC... If you look towards the south bank of the Channel you will see that the French play as many games as their English rivals and managed to set up a team which is generally considered to be possibly the best of the NH.
The current English weakness is not only due to their season organization. Having in mind the number of licencees in England they should have a huge depth and should be able to easily find quality players to replaced those who are in the injury list. There's apparently an issue with the Rugby academies, why are there so few backs showing some fitness and skill?
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