Beattie backs extended 'Six Nations'

[Seaton]

And kill off the game in Scotland? Not a good idea.

"How do you kill that which has no life?"

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

On the revenue issue.... isn't Georgia potentially as big a market for Rugby as Scotland? Both countries have a similar size population and with Rugby being (i think) more popular in Georgia as their unofficial national sport than in Scotland, would much revenue actually be lost swapping one with the other? With the population in Italy being 60 million, i would suggest we are potentially a very big market and very good for revenue.

Scotland's economy is more developed than Georgia's and it's supporters have a higher income and standard of living. As a result, media partners pay more there increasing the size of the pie for everyone.

@Tallshort
Correct. Small minded attitudes amongst the traditional power brokers in world rugby has held the sport back. I think recently they've copped on to the idea that they're killing the goose that laid the golden egg. The Sevens World Cup is going to Russia. The XVs World Cup is going to Japan. Italy gained admission to the old 5 Nations. Argentina entered the old Tri Nations. Samoa are getting more fixtures against tier 1 countries. Slowly the powers that be are expanding their horizons to non traditional areas. I think they are interested in growing the game bt are doing so in a way that doesn't hurt the old power brokers. It's a tough balancing act.

 

[tompaton]

The simple solution is a promotion-relegation play-off. So a two legged tie between the bottom team of the Six Nations and the Top ENC Division 1A team. This way, there is no doubt that the lower division team is worthy of their place.

This could be done on a two year basis. So tally up the points from the previous two championships and the top and bottom get a shot at each other. This way both teams get to play home and away and if a team was promoted, it wouldn't affect the fixtures (i.e. Georgia gets promoted one year and relegated the next so they only play at home to say England and France).

Elsewhere, I think the lower tier teams are already on their way to further exposure. Georgia played Japan and Fiji in November, Romania played Japan and USA, Russia played USA, Spain played Namibia and Zimbabwe and Portugal took on Chile and Uruguay. So they are getting more opportunities.

Speaking of expansion, I wouldn't be surprised if Samoa were eventually added to the Rugby Championship and a similar format to the one I stated above were to evolve with the Pacific Nations Cup. Division One would be Argentina, Australia, South Africa, New Zealand, Samoa and Division Two would be USA, Canada, Japan, Fiji and Tonga.

This is the way forward. I understand Italians and Scots feel threatened but these countries at least deserve a chance. I mean if Georgia had the exposure the Scots had in Six Nations rugby in the 2008-2011 window then who do you reckon would have come up trumps at the world cup?

 

[nickdnz]

Man I'm sick of people saying Samoa will join the Rugby Championship. Does anyone actually think about why that couldn't happen? Where would the economic incentive + economic capacity come from?

 

[tompaton]

Another idea is a European Championship in a non world cup year, say the year after the Lions. It could be done in a similar format to the world cup. 16-20 teams split into four pools. Have a host nation or co-hosts and get into it.

So if you had the top 20 teams in Europe split into four pools the bands for the tournament would be like this (based on today's rankings):

Tier One: France, England, Ireland, Wales
Tier Two: Italy, Scotland, Georgia, Spain
Tier Three: Romania, Russia, Belgium, Portugal
Tier Four: Poland, Germany, Ukraine, Sweden
Tier Five: Netherlands, Moldova, Malta, Lithuania

So groups could be for example:

Group A: France, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Malta
Group B: Wales, Georgia, Belgium, Sweden, Lithuania
Group C: England, Scotland, Romania, Germany, Moldova
Group D: Ireland, Spain, Russia, Ukraine, Netherlands

The gap may be massive between some of these teams but it will help bridge it to a certain extent. It will also give teams like Georgia and Romania a chance to contest quarter final matches, giving them exposure to this kind of occasion giving them more preparation for if they manage to get out of their group at a world cup. What do you guys think?

 

[tompaton]

Man I'm sick of people saying Samoa will join the Rugby Championship. Does anyone actually think about why that couldn't happen? Where would the economic incentive + economic capacity come from?

It's simple. Play all of Samoa's home games in Auckland, where there is a great population of Samoans.

People would be more interested in watching a Samoa v All Blacks match than a Argentina v All Blacks game. They are a rare team that has the ability to bash the big three physically. The haka wars at the beginning is a spectacle in its own right. South Africa v Samoa was one of the best matches of the world cup in 2011 and I'm sure people would tune in to see a spectacle like that. I mean it's not like they wouldn't compete.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Another idea is a European Championship in a non world cup year, say the year after the Lions. It could be done in a similar format to the world cup. 16-20 teams split into four pools. Have a host nation or co-hosts and get into it.

So if you had the top 20 teams in Europe split into four pools the bands for the tournament would be like this (based on today's rankings):

Tier One: France, England, Ireland, Wales
Tier Two: Italy, Scotland, Georgia, Spain
Tier Three: Romania, Russia, Belgium, Portugal
Tier Four: Poland, Germany, Ukraine, Sweden
Tier Five: Netherlands, Moldova, Malta, Lithuania

So groups could be for example:

Group A: France, Italy, Portugal, Poland, Malta
Group B: Wales, Georgia, Belgium, Sweden, Lithuania
Group C: England, Scotland, Romania, Germany, Moldova
Group D: Ireland, Spain, Russia, Ukraine, Netherlands

The gap may be massive between some of these teams but it will help bridge it to a certain extent. It will also give teams like Georgia and Romania a chance to contest quarter final matches, giving them exposure to this kind of occasion giving them more preparation for if they manage to get out of their group at a world cup. What do you guys think?

It's simple. Play all of Samoa's home games in Auckland, where there is a great population of Samoans.

People would be more interested in watching a Samoa v All Blacks match than a Argentina v All Blacks game. They are a rare team that has the ability to bash the big three physically. The haka wars at the beginning is a spectacle in its own right. South Africa v Samoa was one of the best matches of the world cup in 2011 and I'm sure people would tune in to see a spectacle like that. I mean it's not like they wouldn't compete.

Both good ideas in many regards, particularly in getting European lower tier teams and Samoa more action but I can't help feel that France vs Moldova or England vs the Netherlands wouldn't be very pretty and is possibly not exactly the type of fixture any of those teams need/want. Also it seems a little cheeky having the biggest NZ city be the home base of another country. I know SA hosts the los Pampas XV which is an Argie club team in the vodacom cup but they aren't exactly a rival test side.

You need to build the lower tier teams up but not at the expense of the existing top unions as the benchmark of the quality of rugby IMO.

 

[nickdnz]

It's simple. Play all of Samoa's home games in Auckland, where there is a great population of Samoans.

People would be more interested in watching a Samoa v All Blacks match than a Argentina v All Blacks game. They are a rare team that has the ability to bash the big three physically. The haka wars at the beginning is a spectacle in its own right. South Africa v Samoa was one of the best matches of the world cup in 2011 and I'm sure people would tune in to see a spectacle like that. I mean it's not like they wouldn't compete.

It's not so simple. Why would the NZRU give Samoa their biggest stadium - and let them keep the profits? Regardless, Samoa would still need to tour - at least three countries. If you know what Samoa had to go through to get funding for the RWC - you'd understand how low in resources they are - traveling to Argentina, South Africa and Australia certainly wouldn't help.

Also - I don't know if people would be more interested in AB's v Samoa. There is a reasons we haven't played them since 2008 - and it's because we destroyed them by 100 points. It would happen in the Rugby Championship - because clubs would be unwilling to release those players in Europe - which would mean you'd have a situation like in Fiji where players get incentives and threats to volenteerly play for their clubs - or you'd have a lot of Samoan players released from contracts.

Even from a development position - Samoa's national sport is already rugby and there is no economic or population size for it to be a good investment, despite how well the Samoan team is doing.

 

[Da Grappla]

Expanded tournament to a 7 Nations AND promotion relegation system on a 2 year basis.

Taking a look and seeing the squad that Georgia will set up against Belgium...buah. That squad would be a serious threat to Scotland or Italy and a physical challenge to anybody else.

 

[Aristodemus]

I think Georgia are good enough to compete with Scotland and Italy right now, that should be enough to say they deserve a place at the table. I welcome the idea of an extended seven nations tournament as it will be good for the game, the promotion/relegation should be every year though, and to discount the home/away advantage the bottom two teams should play an extra game with each other. For example if Georgia beat Italy at home, and those two sides finished at the bottom of the table, Italy should host Georgia to decide who will be relegated as a return leg of a knockout tie.
As somebody else pointed out though, they can't just enter from next year. I think it would benefit Georgia and other potential nations such as Romania to play the B sides of the current six nation sides as often as possible. They would be much better prepared to enter around 2016 in that case.

 

[stus768]

What is the domestic game like in Georgia? One issue that would occur if they were in an expanded tournament is that less French clubs would hire Georgian as they would be less attractive due to their extended period of absence. Therefore they would be more in need of a strong domestic league to keep their standards up.

 

[Croket66]

What is the domestic game like in Georgia? One issue that would occur if they were in an expanded tournament is that less French clubs would hire Georgian as they would be less attractive due to their extended period of absence. Therefore they would be more in need of a strong domestic league to keep their standards up.

You're right, Georgia needs a higher domestic league.
But, i'm not sure Scottish Premiership is higher than Georgian Premiership. There are some good players from Georgian Premiership, about one tier of the national team is from Georgian Premiership.
In Georgia, money is high (1€ = 2.24 GEL) but salaries are very low, and the country is poor.
I think Georgia haven't money to create 2 franchises like Edinburgh and Glasgow. And even if they have this money, in wich league can they play?...
This is unfortunate because there are many professional players from Georgian!
12 georgians are playing in Top14
1 in RaboDirect Pro12
19 in ProD2 and a lot in french academies
Even if apart 2 players, all these professionnal players are forwards, mostly are playing prop.
Take a look about the team to face Belgium :[TABLE="class: forumline, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: post"]
[TD="class: row1, width: 100%, bgcolor: #FFFFFF, colspan: 2"][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="colspan: 2"]1.Mikheil Nariashvili (Montpellier HRC, 1990)
2.Shalva Mamukashvili (Army Tbilissi, 1988)
3.Davit Kubriashvili (RC Toulon, 1986)
4.Giorgi Chkhaidze (Tarbes PR, 1980, capitaine)
5.Konstantin Mikautadze (RC Toulon, 1991)
6.Vito Kolelishvili (ASM Clermont, 1989)
7.Mamuka Gorgodze (Montpellier HRC, 1984)
8.Dimitri Basilaia (Edinburgh Rugby, 1985)
9.Giorgi Begadze (Batumi XV, 1986)
10.Merab Kvirikashvili (AS St Junien, 1983)
11.Tamaz Mchedlidze (Stade Montois, 1993)
12.Merab Sharikadze (Hartpury College Gloucester, 1993)
13.Davit Kacharava (Stade Rodez, 1985)
14.Sandro Todua (SC Albi, 1987)
15.Beka Tsiklauri (Lokomotiv Tbillissi, 1989)
16.Revaz Belkania (Lelo Tbilissi, 1982)
17.Davit Khinchagishvili (CA Brive, 1982)
18.Levant Chilachava (RC Toulon, 1991)
19.Shalva Sutiashvili (RC Massy, 1984)
20.Beka Bitsadze (Army Tbilissi, 1991)
21.Vazha Khutsishvili (Kharebi Rustavi, 1993)
22.Lasha Khmaladze (Lelo Tbilissi, 1988)
23.Giorgi Pruidze (Aia Kutaisi, 1994)[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
And Georgia will play without his best tight five :
Kakovin (Toulouse) - Natriashvili (Brive)/Bregvadze (Toulouse) - Zirakashvili (Clermont)/Jgenti (Montpellier)
Datunashvili (Aurillac) - Nemsadze (Tarbes)/Maisuradze(Albi)

Line up v. Belgium is only 24 years old on average, 90% of the team can play 2015 RWC