Bath 2017/2018

[BPM]

Yeah he's one of those players who's failed to kick on a bit for me - thinking about it, probably since around the time Paul James left which may be significant. Still he's got obvious talent and plenty of time, props traditionally peak late and he's 24.

Saying that I disagree on Mullan, and to a lesser degree Genge. Mullan is a step behind the other three and wouldn't seem to have a ceiling much higher than his current level so it wouldn't take much more than a good (as opposed to brilliant) season from a talented youngster like Auterac to displace him. Genge could go either way - if he stagnates and Auterac kicks on, then he could conceivably be overtaken, he's far from established. It would take something pretty extraordinary (or injury) for Auterac to get into the England 23 for the 6N, but third in the pecking order wouldn't be any massive surprise (even with Loons players resting, I think I don't think he's got the time to break into the November squad).

Mullan could possibly be leapfrogged, but while I agree that Genge isn't yet fully 'established', he's been in and around the England squad for a while now and I think it would take a huge effort from an uncapped player like Auterac, Rapava-Ruskin or Hepburn to overhaul him at this stage.

The more players we have challenging for England contention the better so I hope Auterac comes back in to form and adds to the impressive depth we're developing at loosehead.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Anyone know if the Opreys game is available on stream anywhere today?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I could only find mention on Wales online. Obviously being the impartial people they are, all the photos are of the Ospreys and 90% of their talk about Bath is for the Welsh players...

 

[Which Tyler]

Anthony Perenise returns for Bath - 1 year contract: https://www.bathrugby.com/news/perenise-re-joins-bath-rugby-for-201718-campaign/

Good call IMO, with Thomas and Lahiff missing the first part of teh season with injuries, and Knight picking up a tweak, that was leaving us with KPN as the only senior THP for us.
In his day he'd have been ahead of Lahiff and Knight, and challenging Thomas too - let's hope his time with Brizz hasn't dissolved his skills too much.

 

[Which Tyler]

And there goes Guy - presumably moving for game-time, as I can't see him being above 3rd choice in any one position
https://www.bathrugby.com/news/guy-mercer-to-join-ospreys-on-loan-for-the-201718-season/

Let's face it, he is surplus to requirements, so I'll go ahead and assuem that it's a season-long trial before signing for Ospreys either next year, or at the end of his new contract (ALA Cheeseman, Sisi, Ovens, Koster, JonnyF)

 

[Every Time Ref]

How much are we going to miss Matson do you think?

Anyone know how the roles are broken down, what he's been especially responsible for?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well, not how I thought things would go after the first 2 games...

 

[NDC89]

How much are we going to miss Matson do you think?

Anyone know how the roles are broken down, what he's been especially responsible for?

Quite a bit if the games he has been gone for are anything to go by

 

[Every Time Ref]

Quite a bit if the games he has been gone for are anything to go by

Yeah it looks like whatever he was doing was important

 

[Which Tyler]

I just think that this is the injuries coming along to haunt us.
We're still able to put out a decent team; but they can't train properly when there's no-one to oppose; and those available need to be wrapped in cotton wool for us to be able to put a side out.
Which in turn means that we can't tinker our coaching to the new law variations (which I think we've gotten wrong anyway).

We were able to overcome that for the first couple; when we'd had pre-season etc; but changing course is hard anyway, let alone when you can't train properly.
It's one of two reasons I foind acceptable to use injuries as an "excuse" (the other being an injury crisis in one critical position; so having to eg play with a centre at SH). Otherwise the response to injuries is "should have built a better squad then"

 

[Every Time Ref]

I just think that this is the injuries coming along to haunt us.
We're still able to put out a decent team; but they can't train properly when there's no-one to oppose; and those available need to be wrapped in cotton wool for us to be able to put a side out.
Which in turn means that we can't tinker our coaching to the new law variations (which I think we've gotten wrong anyway).

We were able to overcome that for the first couple; when we'd had pre-season etc; but changing course is hard anyway, let alone when you can't train properly.
It's one of two reasons I foind acceptable to use injuries as an "excuse" (the other being an injury crisis in one critical position; so having to eg play with a centre at SH). Otherwise the response to injuries is "should have built a better squad then"

I do think we should have built a larger squad, it's well known we have a relatively small senior squad and having suffered from injuries last year as well we were promised more signings in the off season which never happened. We still have a small squad, we'd been padding out the A Team with uni students even before the embarrassment of not being able to raise a team ... I certainly don't think we can say we were prepared for injuries and just got caught short by the extent of them.

 

[Which Tyler]

Well known things aren't always true though.
We don't have a small squad, and we weren't promised more signings over the off-season - so that's two examples off the bat.

Wiki, on the other hand (and take from that source whatever you wish) thinks:

Team Adults Kids
Sale 32 10
Gloucester 38 19
Wasps 39 11
Leicester 40 15
Saracens 40 18
Harlequins 41 17
Bath 43 12
Northampton 43 13
Lirish 45 11
Worcester 45 13
Exeter 46 13
Newcastle 49 11


NB: Wiki just HAS to be wrong on Sale; it also doesn't split senior from academy for Saints and Exeter; so I've taken the average academy size (13) and allotted it that way

On top of that, Todd said he wanted 6 more signings (NB: not promised). If you think that difference is semantics, them tell your Mrs that you want a BJ tonight, and see if she can tell the difference between a desire and a promise.
Since that interview, of course, we signed Charles, Mitchell, Perenise, Andrews, Phillips, Grant and Williams. I can't remember when Wilson and a few others signed/re-signed
What we haven't signed (yet) is a centre. We might be able to afford one either if we looked at the available salary cap and thought "that'll get us 6", then signing an 8th might be optimistic - and (3) THPs won't be coming cheap

 

[Every Time Ref]

Fair enough I didn't check the numbers I spoke out of line on that. In which case, why does quality seem to drop off a cliff so quickly compared to the playoff sides when faced with a few injuries? I think we've got too many mediocre players in the second tier to properly challenge at the moment.

Semantics or otherwise, I and other Bath fans felt we were "led to believe" that more signings, and more significant signings were to be expected

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Fair enough I didn't check the numbers I spoke out of line on that. In which case, why does quality seem to drop off a cliff so quickly compared to the playoff sides when faced with a few injuries? I think we've got too many mediocre players in the second tier to properly challenge at the moment.

Semantics or otherwise, I and other Bath fans felt we were "led to believe" that more signings, and more significant signings were to be expected

I'd agree with this, I felt we were going to address the weaknesses in the squad. Currently happy with the backs for the most part but feel the forwards are lacking. They are just too inaccurate and still too passive. They don't seem able to do hard carrying much either.

 

[Every Time Ref]

Well I'll take that. 80 mins of my life I'll never get back, but thiose games are always infinitely more enjoyable to watch when you win.

Why we won boils down to 3 key reasons for me:
a) conditions suited our style better
b) improved defence (granted their attack didn't look up to much
c) game management 101 - bearing in mind point a). Slippery conditions, kicking from the middle third will always have the advantage over running it in the middle third

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Well I'll take that. 80 mins of my life I'll never get back, but thiose games are always infinitely more enjoyable to watch when you win.

Why we won boils down to 3 key reasons for me:
a) conditions suited our style better
b) improved defence (granted their attack didn't look up to much
c) game management 101 - bearing in mind point a). Slippery conditions, kicking from the middle third will always have the advantage over running it in the middle third

The defense was a big step up and very impressed by both Underhill and Mercer, England could potentially be coming to the end of having back rows that just don't impose themselves. Has Charteris always charged out the line as badly as he did that game? That was a massive hole he left for no reason at all, it's not like he was needed to assist in the tackle. Very poor game reading if he does that regularly.

 

[stus768]

I'd agree with this, I felt we were going to address the weaknesses in the squad. Currently happy with the backs for the most part but feel the forwards are lacking. They are just too inaccurate and still too passive. They don't seem able to do hard carrying much either.

I think your backs are lacking. Especially your second string. Not many decent back up centres or back 3.
Forwards have some quality and reasonable depth- back 5 especially.

 

[Which Tyler]

I think your backs are lacking. Especially your second string. Not many decent back up centres or back 3.
Forwards have some quality and reasonable depth- back 5 especially.

Meh; I'm happy with our first choice 5 or so back 3 players TBH, and below that, I'm never going to be too critical; it's not a particularly attritional position after all.
As for the centres; our quality is fine; it's the depth we lack; with only having 3 specialists meaning that 1 injury during international periods and we get players out of position in the midfield. It's the only position where I'm not happy with our squad TBH - barring the odd ondividual who I don't think is good enough to even be 4th choice (eg. Allinson, no idea how he's 3rd choice)

 

[Every Time Ref]

Meh; I'm happy with our first choice 5 or so back 3 players TBH, and below that, I'm never going to be too critical; it's not a particularly attritional position after all.
As for the centres; our quality is fine; it's the depth we lack; with only having 3 specialists meaning that 1 injury during international periods and we get players out of position in the midfield. It's the only position where I'm not happy with our squad TBH - barring the odd ondividual who I don't think is good enough to even be 4th choice (eg. Allinson, no idea how he's 3rd choice)

Yeah 3 excellent centres, trouble is 3 isn't enough especially when one is an England international. You know who'd be good? That Devoto kid...

I do question some of Blackadder's pecking orders though. I would like more Tapuai and less Priestland personally

 

[Which Tyler]

I dunno - I'm please that Clark is being given a proper chance, and I think he could become better than Tapuai, although he's not there yet. Of course it's also possible that Ben doesn't want to extend his contract or something like that.

As for less Rhys, that's been enforced so far, but after the last couple of weeks, and Wuss up next, I'd be pretty confident of Freddie getting his first start for us (fitness providing)

I'd love to get Devoto back, but I don't see that happening; I'd also love us to give Jonny Williams a club-upgrade. Hell, I'd be delighted with both of them.

My biggest issue with Todd's pecking order is at SH!