At least 32 dead in Virginia Tech shooting

[RoyalBlueStuey]

Whilst I'm not saying the the UK is a utopia the fact that guns are a lot harder to get hold of means that heat of the moment rage killings are a lot less likely to happen.

If people snap then there isn't a gun in every single glovebox/toolshed to allow that instant rush of vengence. If someone is planning a Columbine then the evidence is that they are going to do it one way or the other 'cause without fail they are prepared to die.

There'll always be an underclass of hoods who will want to get a firearm but nothing will ever stop that. It's not like I am going to challenge them to a duel if they accost me.

Freely available lethal weapons will result in more deaths. End.Of. I'm not a liberal fruit-cake...I just hear these stories and they make me so sad. How dark must some people's lives be when that is the path they choose.

 

[Caledfwlch]

where i come from, the minimum sentence is caning and 10 yrs in jail, but 99.9% - 100% of the people who are caught with firearms are strung up and hanged "till they be dead". cruel, and makes a mockery of those human rights groups. but effective

 

[loratadine]

your country is crazier than america, from one extreme to another!!



where do you live, saudia arabia, singapore, thailand?

 

[shtove]

where i come from, the minimum sentence is caning and 10 yrs in jail, but 99.9% - 100% of the people who are caught with firearms are strung up and hanged "till they be dead". cruel, and makes a mockery of those human rights groups. but effective
[/b]

Yikes, that sounds mad. But it makes sense.

The criminal justice system in most western countries is a vast industry/bureaucracy that provides fees and careers for its members through endless efforts at understanding the wicked and excusing their wickedness. It seems that the innocent are nobody's concern, and have to deal with the bitterness of injustice on their own. Cut down on the exclusionary rules of evidence, shorten trials, and use corporal punishment - including the death sentence - on violent criminals. BTW - I also believe in abolishing limited liability and setting up debtors' prisons, so that chancers, swindlers and fakers can really suffer. Dickens was a sentimental twit.

I think the US constitution is the oldest in the world, and probably the least amended too. If you look at it from a strict view, the US is also the oldest state in the world. Nothing immature there.

Americans at least have an ideal of individual responsibility. Mind you, it doesn't seem to spend much time at the White House.

The state's guarantee of freedoms has to be real, not just words on a page - hence the freedom to bear arms to defend yourself. But not feckin' automatic weapons. This guy fired off round after round with hardly a pause.

 

[DC]

Two things need to change in America:

1. Gun Policy
2. Social Morality

The first one, I know is the obvious of the conversation, but I am also a big believer in morals and the fact that Western Society in general (with America as it's flagship) have lost social responsibility and morality. Egocentricism and the need to fulfill "self" have left us with no compass as a society.

On a side note, all that they are showing on tv right now are interviews with the current victims in VA and past ones from all the other shootings (which is sad to say "all the other").
[/b]

Oh come on O'rothlain you might as well move to a socialist state if you dont want to fulfill "self". Thats the purpose of our country is to fullfill yourself. I don't believe in the **** the liberals in this country try to do. I dont believe in this bullshit of taxing the wealthier citizens in order to pay for the poor f***s who cant do anything for themselves. Its not right with me that people who earn their hard earned living have to sit there and pay heavy taxes so some lazy f*** can not work, make wellfare a lifestyle and basically do **** all to make themselves a better person. Taking from the rich and giving to the poor is not morally acceptable to me especially when the poor dont do anything to make themselves better.

 

[C A Iversen]

What all rich snobs say. As far as I'm concerned you've looked at the view in an extremist way.

Yes, there are bludgers in every country, those who don't want to work. There are also those who were born into money. Those who've had opportunity given to them.

There are people who work hard and strive every day for 1000th of the pay of those who employ them.

There are people who've worked their way through college paying for everything they have got, only to lose out in interviews for good jobs to people who are employed ahead of them for stupid reasons.

Their daddy might know the boss, the other person may be born with better looks, any damn reason. They might have just been at the wrong interview on the wrong day. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see that this happens every day to many people who might've been in with the favoured rich if the dice had rolled the other way.

Yes, it's a dog eat dog world sometimes. Yes, it's competitive. Before you tell me to get real, I have.

I know this is the world we live in. Although to rejoice in the unfairness of it all, and call millions of hard working poor, lazy or useless, is usually the behaviour of the rich scum who've driven the world to where it is.

 

[DC]

What all rich snobs say. As far as I'm concerned you've looked at the view in an extremist way.

Yes, there are bludgers in every country, those who don't want to work. There are also those who were born into money. Those who've had opportunity given to them.

There are people who work hard and strive every day for 1000th of the pay of those who employ them.

There are people who've worked their way through college paying for everything they have got, only to lose out in interviews for good jobs to people who are employed ahead of them for stupid reasons.

Their daddy might know the boss, the other person may be born with better looks, any damn reason. They might have just been at the wrong interview on the wrong day. It doesn't take a lot of imagination to see that this happens every day to many people who might've been in with the favoured rich if the dice had rolled the other way.

Yes, it's a dog eat dog world sometimes. Yes, it's competitive. Before you tell me to get real, I have.

I know this is the world we live in. Although to rejoice in the unfairness of it all, and call millions of hard working poor, lazy or useless, is usually the behaviour of the rich scum who've driven the world to where it is.
[/b]

Look more closely to the people im talking about, people who make WELLFARE a way of income and a lifestlye.

I feel its not my duty to pay for someone who sits on their ass and uses their money to buy drugs, alcohol, or whatever else floats their boat. Sorry if i feel that way but its the truth, i believe if you do well for yourself you reap the benefits.

 

[Dumbo]

Easy there DC... flying off the handle mate.
I think mate you need to have a better look at the world in general, there's a lot of poverty out there and people need a hand.
The sick, the poor and those that cannot help themselves - all need a hand, Welfare is that hand.
I pay taxes, I expect part of that money to go to peope that need a hand and am happy to pay, why?
I like people, I like my country and I like to think my country can look after it's people.

In two seconds flat your life can change... remember that DC.
Man thats a hard attitude you have there bud.

 

[DC]

Easy there DC... flying off the handle mate.
I think mate you need to have a better look at the world in general, there's a lot of poverty out there and people need a hand.
The sick, the poor and those that cannot help themselves - all need a hand, Welfare is that hand.
I pay taxes, I expect part of that money to go to peope that need a hand and am happy to pay, why?
I like people, I like my country and I like to think my country can look after it's people.

In two seconds flat your life can change... remember that DC.
Man thats a hard attitude you have there bud.
[/b]

I dont have a problem with people who genuinely try to make lives better for themselves and their families and i dont have a problem with paying the taxes so those kind of people could get the wellfare that they deserve. Those people who dont work to make their lives better for them or their families; Thats who i have a problem with paying taxes for. I just dont think its fair to hardworking people that they are expected to pay taxes so that people who dont work, dont care, and dont do **** for them or their families are able to make a living off the welfare. Its those people who knock up 6 different women, dont contact them again, and then spend their numerous wellfare checks on drugs or alcohol that really **** me off, they are worthless. Simple as that and i would hate to see hard earned money go to them rather than people who genuinely try to make lives better.

 

[C A Iversen]

Now that you've qualified your statement, I agree with you.

To be honest mate, you were lumping a lot of good people in with the bad there for a while.

Would I be right in saying that you believe if all of the deadbeats took the same degree of social and moral responsibility that O'Rothlain was talking about, the taxes of decent hard-working folks of all income brackets would/shouldn't be so high?

Also, I have strayed off the topic, so will make this comment about the shootings, "Is there anything, that anyone could have or should've done that would've made it easier to identify such an at risk and homicidal teen?"

 

[shiznit]

Problem is DC... usually the Bludgers are in the vast minority...your willing to punnish the needy over what a minority of people do.

im unashamably liberal... i actually work for WINZ in NZ which is NZ's Welfare system so i see it everyday.

i just see the USA and i see a country that provides for the rich and makes it harder for the poor... the healthcare system is a disgrace... like other forum members have said... i pay my taxes so people in need can get the help they needed... not to pay for things like war etc...
whether your liberal or conservative... you must have just shaken your head when you saw what happend following Hurricane Katrina...

 

[C A Iversen]

My god! I agree with all of that from start to finish. Very good post.

 

[Ripper]

Problem is DC... usually the Bludgers are in the vast minority...your willing to punnish the needy over what a minority of people do.

im unashamably liberal... i actually work for WINZ in NZ which is NZ's Welfare system so i see it everyday.

i just see the USA and i see a country that provides for the rich and makes it harder for the poor... the healthcare system is a disgrace... like other forum members have said... i pay my taxes so people in need can get the help they needed... not to pay for things like war etc...
whether your liberal or conservative... you must have just shaken your head when you saw what happend following Hurricane Katrina...
[/b]

You also unashamably said on another forum that you hope that America gets hit by another 9/11 if they "didn't go left" at the next election.

And its funny you mention the Healthcare system - ayou been paying attention to your own backyard? Helen Clark has been throwing literally tens of billions of dollars at the Health System - and guess whats happened? It has gone to the shitter , and our money is wasted in a giant blackhole. I personally shake my head when I see that thousands of people in my own country are booted off waiting lists or are forced to wait for operations at underfunded and poorly staffed/maintained hospital, while at the local EIT there are Government Funded Twilight Golf Courses and watch half a million spent to send a dunny which makes Donkey noises to Italy, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[shiznit]

yeah... i can get carried away easily... the 9/11 jibe is probably based more on the fact that i get frustrated when the bush admin use terror to scare there people into keeping him in power. in all honesty before i made that comment i had probably been watching FOX news for a couple of hours...watching FOX news always ryles the leftie in me...

on our healthcare system... i agree with you entirely!! the problem with it is though... no one has really come up with any real answers to the waiting lists. i remember when National were in power Labour were attacking them for the same thing. all govt's seem to do is throw money at it without looking at what other countries do sucsessfully.

when i was talking about the US health system i have to say im not familiar with the system itself so im not having a go at the whole system. just the fact that the govt. doesnt subsidise medication because of the effect it has on the free market. drug companies lobby like hell to keep it that way.

ive got a mate that i went to uni with who is from the US. he was saying that people go up to canada to get stockpiles of there medication because its just too expensive in the US. perhaps some US natives could enlighten us more on this... sure our system is certainly not perfect but we have it alot better then most countries.

 

[DC]

Problem is DC... usually the Bludgers are in the vast minority...your willing to punnish the needy over what a minority of people do.

im unashamably liberal... i actually work for WINZ in NZ which is NZ's Welfare system so i see it everyday.

i just see the USA and i see a country that provides for the rich and makes it harder for the poor... the healthcare system is a disgrace... like other forum members have said... i pay my taxes so people in need can get the help they needed... not to pay for things like war etc...
whether your liberal or conservative... you must have just shaken your head when you saw what happend following Hurricane Katrina...
[/b]

Well in reality bush was blamed WAY to much for katrina. I mean Ray Nagan had the opportunity to use the cities public transportation buses in order to evacuate New Orleans citizens who could not escape but him and the governor of Louisiana decided not to. Now im not saying that a lot couldnt have been done to help some of those people faster, but i really dont believe in blaming FEMA for everything, when there was a lot that Ray Nagan and the governor could have done. Either way though FEMA was quite slow in reacting, but it wasnt entirely their fault.

And to get back to the subject at hand i dont believe in banning guns for a simple reason. If you are going to kill people, regardless of if guns are banned or not, you will get your hands on a gun. Think about it like this, you do illegal drugs, but, just because they are banned doesnt mean you cant easily get your hands on them.

And rush limbaugh said it best that the biggest murders in the history of our country didn't need guns to be completed, i.e. 9/11 Box Cutters and Planes, Timothy McVae, bomb in a rental truck outside of a building.. etc. So banning guns would not really do anything to improve the safety or security of our citizens. Sad but true.

yeah... i can get carried away easily... the 9/11 jibe is probably based more on the fact that i get frustrated when the bush admin use terror to scare there people into keeping him in power. in all honesty before i made that comment i had probably been watching FOX news for a couple of hours...watching FOX news always ryles the leftie in me...

on our healthcare system... i agree with you entirely!! the problem with it is though... no one has really come up with any real answers to the waiting lists. i remember when National were in power Labour were attacking them for the same thing. all govt's seem to do is throw money at it without looking at what other countries do sucsessfully.

when i was talking about the US health system i have to say im not familiar with the system itself so im not having a go at the whole system. just the fact that the govt. doesnt subsidise medication because of the effect it has on the free market. drug companies lobby like hell to keep it that way.

ive got a mate that i went to uni with who is from the US. he was saying that people go up to canada to get stockpiles of there medication because its just too expensive in the US. perhaps some US natives could enlighten us more on this... sure our system is certainly not perfect but we have it alot better then most countries.
[/b]

The thing with our healthcare system is that if you have insurance medications don't really cost that much. BUT if you dont have the insurance meds can cost a boatload. But most places of employment (providing its a fulltime job) will provide that insurance to an employees family so its not a big deal.

 

[allblacksfreak]

Ok... back to why Americans have guns...

I have just been learning the American history.. although I am not the most attentive in class, but this is what i remembered...

The first and foremost REASON why USA exists is because back in the old colonial times, the people were allowed to bear arms, which hence results in the American Revolution... The WHOLE USA was founded because its citizens were allowed to have guns! THAT is why Americans today are allowed to have guns...
It is actually written in the US constitution or whatever it's called (correct me if I'm wrong..)

 

[Rugby_Cymru]

Yup, i think you're right.
I'm only saying that coz i think i heard an american chime on about it earlier on in this topic.
I know **** all about that americans. Unless hollywood has talked about it then i'm clueless.