Argentinian Rugby

[stevenp]

Will Argentina get a 3 test series against the British lions one day?

 

[Horacito]

Por favor cielo bendito que hace Matias Orlando en el equipo
gomez kodela igual, podria ser mi viejo

cruz deci algo por favor

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Me comi el mensaje Horacito, disculpa!

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Jeff Wilson (paraphrasing): Argentines are the best underdogs and the worst favourites in the sport.

I agree.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Jeff Wilson (paraphrasing): Argentines are the best underdogs and the worst favourites in the sport.

I agree.

Fiji are the best underdogs, by far.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I'll bite. Name Fiji's 3 biggest upset victories during a rugby world cup. I'll name Argentina's and we compare them.

For whatever reason, Fiji does struck fear into the heart of every single Welshman i know. It's like they've got some sort of attack bonus or something.

I recall during 2015's WC i ended having a beer with a Fijian and a Welsh during a game (none of our teams were playing). The Welsh said he'd rather face Arg, the Fijian Wales and I said i'd rather face Fiji. We all understood each other perfectly. Styles make fights, rock-paper-scissors, etc.

I guess we have our own kryptonite too. Not sure why but whenever we face England we end up losing games we shouldn't. They are better in general, sure, but even with depleted squads(B&IL tour years), or when playing 14 vs 15 for 77 mins (2019)... I don't like it, not one bit, but that doesn't make it false.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'll bite. Name Fiji's 3 biggest upset victories during a rugby world cup. I'll name Argentina's and we compare them.

For whatever reason, Fiji does struck fear into the heart of every single Welshman i know. It's like they've got some sort of attack bonus or something.

I recall during 2015's WC i ended having a beer with a Fijian and a Welsh during a game (none of our teams were playing). The Welsh said he'd rather face Arg, the Fijian Wales and I said i'd rather face Fiji. We all understood each other perfectly. Styles make fights, rock-paper-scissors, etc.

I guess we have our own kryptonite too. Not sure why but whenever we face England we end up losing games we shouldn't. They are better in general, sure, but even with depleted squads(B&IL tour years), or when playing 14 vs 15 for 77 mins (2019)... I don't like it, not one bit, but that doesn't make it false.

For me, whether you win has nothing to do with being an underdog, if anything the less you win the more of an underdog you are.

For me it’s always going to be Fiji over Argentina because they’re a tiny, poor island. 15-20 years ago you could have a stronger case for Argentina but you’ve been an established, top side for well over a decade now. Plus, you’re no different to the English, Scots Irish etc etc where it’s just a private school rich boy sport which is another reason I wouldn’t say they’re the best underdogs.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

For me it's always going to be Fiji over Argentina because they're a tiny, poor island.

You're gonna have to excuse me, but being English my second language and being surprised, no, flabbergasted by your definition of underdog, i had to resort to a dictionary. I understand Merriam Webster is the gold standard. This is their def ( for the sake of simplicity i disregarded the entries irrelevant to the argument)

underdog
noun
un·der·dog ˈən-dər-ˌdȯg

1: a loser or predicted loser in a struggle or contest

-------

How is it then that "whether you win has nothing to do with being an underdog" ????
It has everything to do, by definition.
What am i missing? I am sincerely lost.

Plus, you're no different to the English, Scots Irish etc etc where it's just a private school rich boy sport which is another reason I wouldn't say they're the best underdogs.

LOL!
You really want to compare Arg's gpd per capita, average income, average salary, etc to Wales's?


Let me rephrase Wilson's statement, for clarity.

What he said: Argentines are the best underdogs and the worst favourites in the sport.

What he meant: Argentina tends to do better than expected when they are not favourites and tend to do worse than expected against easier competition.
Since better/worse than expected is a result based metric, winning and/or losing (and by how much) IS very much relevant.

 

[Welsh Exile]

You're gonna have to excuse me, but being English my second language and being surprised, no, flabbergasted by your definition of underdog, i had to resort to a dictionary. I understand Merriam Webster is the gold standard. This is their def ( for the sake of simplicity i disregarded the entries irrelevant to the argument)

underdog
noun
un·der·dog ˈən-dər-ˌdȯg

1: a loser or predicted loser in a struggle or contest

-------

How is it then that "whether you win has nothing to do with being an underdog" ????
It has everything to do, by definition.
What am i missing? I am sincerely lost.


LOL!
You really want to compare Arg's gpd per capita, average income, average salary, etc to Wales's?


Let me rephrase Wilson's statement, for clarity.

What he said: Argentines are the best underdogs and the worst favourites in the sport.

What he meant: Argentina tends to do better than expected when they are not favourites and tend to do worse than expected against easier competition.
Since better/worse than expected is a result based metric, winning and/or losing (and by how much) IS very much relevant.

Yeah, Fiji are expected to, and do, lose far more than Argentina hence they are much more of an underdog than Argentina. Then add on the fact they are far, far smaller and poorer than Argentina and you have your answer, from me anyway.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

"Como autocrítica, yo cambié el grupo de liderazgo antes de lo que lo tendría que haber cambiado: para mi era super evidente, Pablo (Matera) representaba mucho más para donde yo quería llevar al equipo, pero por ahí el equipo le respondía a Agustín (Creevy) y al grupo de Agustín". Mario Ledesma

Me tengo que morder la lengua.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

y...

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

An arg rugby stream said that Albornoz was the most complete fly half Argentina has ever had. They made it crystal clear they were talking about completeness and NOT about who was/is the best.
The guys running the podcast are, understandably, not very old and a lot of old timers were throwing Porta at them and basically calling them ignorant.
Some even went as far as saying that Porta was widely acknowledged as the best fly half of the world back in the day... as if Lynagh, Botha and Fox played ping pong or something.

Fortunately i am not that young and I did see Porta. I disagree with the statement about Albornoz being the most well rounded. I believe i would pick Juan Martin Hernandez for this, though i can see arguments that might swing me towards someone else. Depends on what aspects of the game you value the most (kicking, defense, attack (dodging and/or ramming*), conducting/leadership, positioning, etc). Or the type of fly half a particular team needs.

*: i had to split this because I kept thinking of Porta going past players but he could never, not in a million years, ram people like Contepomi did.

 

[Brigantine]

I think here is a good place to talk about the race for "Pot 1" in the RWC2027 draw.
I will start off with a short post, and edit in more later.

Big question: Is the host guaranteed Pot 1, or does it go to Rank 6 instead? Answer: in 2019, Japan was in Band 3, despite being hosts.
So I was wrong. Pot 1 is Rank 1-6. Maybe I need to move this post to somewhere more generally about RWC2027~

What has changed since yesterday?

1. Argentina gained 1.56 RP, closing the gap with England and France
2. The opponent for the next 2 games, South Africa, gained a massive 2.25 RP, which helps Argentina's prospects to gain more or lose fewer RP in the next 2 games
   1. In the event of a loss next game, Argentina loses nothing, since South Africa with home advantage (+3.00) is playing at 94.62, more than 10 RP above Argentina
   2. If Argentina wins by 1-15 points, they gain 2.00 RP
   3. In the Twickenham game, Argentina has a 2nd chance to increase their RP to 86.12 - instead of e.g. 85.65 if South Africa had narrowly lost last night
   4. In the worse case, two 16+ point losses, Argentina will still only lose 0.42 RP and still be on 83.98 RP when the November tests start - instead of e.g. 83.30

Argentina still has Wales and Scotland to play, and how England (and France) perform in their games will of course also matter.
But it is more and more likely that England vs Argentina on Nov 23 will be decisive for who gets Pot 1

Even if Australia does well, since England will have home advantage, in that last game Argentina can still overcome a gap (with England) of 3.25 RP with a 1-15 point win, or even a gap of 5.57 RP with a 16+ point win

(source)

Spoiler: November Games

Australia vs:

• New Zealand x2 in TRC
• Japan (+3.00),
• England (+3.00),
• Italy (+3.00),
• Ireland (+3.00),
• France (+3.00)

England (+3.00) vs:

• Australia,
• Fiji,
• New Zealand
• then Argentina

France (+3.00) vs:

• South Africa,
• Fiji,
• Australia

 

[Welsh Exile]

Not looking forward to playing these slags in a couple of months. Hopefully we can keep the loss inside 7-14 points.

 

[Horacito]

if this interview doesn't light up the argie community here, I don't even know

what do you guys think? i agree, especially regarding reffs

P.D: i assume you can autotranslate with YT nowadays

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

No te va a gustar mi opinion. El que avisa no traiciona. Tengo mucho sesgo como para hacerme el objetivo. Me cae 'meh' pichot y Santiago no me podria caer peor. No sabe absolutamente nada y se dedica a vender sentimentalismo y sesgo de confirmacion. Lo sigo desde cemento, cuando era un tuitero con 20 seguidores. Su estilo sigue siendo exactamente el mismo: storytelling, storytelling y storytelling. Cero valor agregado en cuanto a datos y analisis. Pero bueno, como dije, tengo mucho sesgo.

Y no soy necio, el pase forward contra Australia es un escandalo. Pero estas cosas se demuestran con datos. El sesgo es un elemento estadistico que se puede demostrar matematicamente. Yo todo lo que veo (no de Santiago, de la gente Arg en general) es poner el grito en el cielo cuando por el pase forward en la ultima jugada contra Australia pero NO por nuestro pase forward en la ultima jugada contra Inglaterra. Y esas son cosas que tanto Agustin como Santiago callan. Y las callan siempre. A mi me cuesta mucho creerle a un periodista que se queja cuando algo le pasa a un equipo pero no dice nada cuando pasa lo mismo para el otro lado. Para mi el periodismo es otra cosa.

A mi se me cae la cara de verguenza ver a argentinos quejandose del referi en el partido contra inglaterra. Realmente me da verguenza. Deje, hace años, de ver partidos con comentaristas Argentinos (salvo urba, etc). Me caga la experiencia.

Y yo a Agustin le creo hasta ahi. El tipo es ante todo un marketinero. Dice lo que le conviene para vender. Igual fijate que no es ningun boludo: no dice "nos roban". Sabe perfectamente que cualquier teoria conspirativa de este estilo es un delirio. Errores? Probablemente. Millones. Pero por eso dice que hay un sesgo inconsciente en contra nuestra. Afirmaciones extraordinarias requieren evidencia extraordinaria. No veo la evidencia. Quizas existe, no digo que no. Digo que si sos periodista y vas a decir algo asi, primero tenes que hacer tu trabajo y juntar los datos y el analisis para sustentar esa hipotesis. No lo hacen. No hay uno solo que lo haga.

Y que la trate a Male Pichot de intelectual, honestamente, no ayuda.