Argentina's new odds

[thelizardking]

This is my first post, and its mainly because some irish fans made me mad because they highly underestimated the Pumas on the previous days of the world cup, saying it would only be an upset if Argentina finished first in the group, but i think it was something expectable if you look at their last years performances. Now the Pumas are 4th on the IRB ranking, over every NH team. So lets see:

Against France:
24/10/1999 Argentina 26 â€" Francia 47 (RWC) Dublín (Irlanda).
15/06/2002 Argentina 28 â€" Francia 27 Buenos Aires.
14/06/2003 Argentina 10 â€" Francia 06 Buenos Aires
20/06/2003 Argentina 33 â€" Francia 32 Buenos Aires
20/11/2004 Francia 14 â€" Argentina 24 Marsella
25/11/2006 Francia 27 â€" Argentina 26 París
07/09/2007 Francia 12 - Argentina 17 (RWC)

Against Scotland:
21/08/1999 Escocia 22 â€" Argentina 31 Edimburgo.
18/11/2001 Escocia 16 â€" Argentina 25 Edimburgo
12/11/2005 Escocia 19 â€" Argentina 23 Edimburgo

Against England:
31/05/1997 Argentina 20 â€" Inglaterra 46 Buenos Aires.
07/06/1997 Argentina 33 â€" Inglaterra 13 Buenos Aires.
25/11/2000 Inglaterra 19 â€" Argentina 0 Londres.
22/06/2002 Argentina 18 â€" Inglaterra 26 Londres.
11/11/2006 Inglaterra 18 â€" Argentina 25 Londres.

Against Ireland:
20/10/1999 Argentina 28 â€" Irlanda 24 (RWC) Lens (Francia).
03/06/2000 Argentina 34 â€" Irlanda 23 Buenos Aires.
23/11/2002 Irlanda 16 â€" Argentina 07 Buenos Aires
26/10/2003 Argentina 15 â€" Irlanda 16 Adelaida
27/11/2004 Argentina 19 â€" Irlanda 21 Dublín
26/05/07 Argentina 22 - Irlanda 20 Santa Fe
02/06/07 Argentina 16 - Irlanda 0 Buenos Aires

Against Italy:
14/07/2001 Argentina 38 â€" Italia 17 Buenos Aires.
16/11/2002 Italia 06 â€" Argentina 36 Roma.
11/06/2005 Argentina 35 â€" Italia 21 Salta
17/06/2005 Argentina 29 â€" Italia 30 Córdoba
19/11/2005 Italia 22 â€" Argentina 39 Genova
18/11/2006 Italia 16 â€" Argentina 23 Roma

Against Wales:
5/6/1999 Argentina 26 â€" Gales 36 Buenos Aires.
12/6/1999 Argentina 16 â€" Gales 23 Buenos Aires.
1/10/1999 Gales 23 â€" Argentina 18 (RWC) Cardiff.
10/11/2001 Gales 16 â€" Argentina 30 Cardiff
12/6/2004 Argentina 50 â€" Gales 44 Buenos Aires
19/6/2004 Argentina 20 â€" Gales 35 Buenos Aires
Two more won by argentina and one by wales (couldnt find the results)

This is to show that what happened in le stade de france wasnt a surprise, and Argentina has great chances to win the pool of death. I dont want any irish guy to come and say they'll win us, that'll be seen on september 30, i am just saying that argentina should be respected.

 

[shazbooger]

I dont see how anyone could bet against Argentina winning the group and probably the entire tournament.

I mean they have played one, won one so far (about to be 2 and 2) and in the process hammered the most dissjointed French team in history by a massive 5 points.

:wall:

 

[Eternal Idol]

I dont see how anyone could bet against Argentina winning the group and probably the entire tournament.[/b]

Actually Ireland is the clear favorite, forget about the ABs. I can't even imagine how could you rule out a team that has won his last tournament 23 years ago and haven't been able to beat France since 4 years ago.

I mean they have played one, won one so far (about to be 2 and 2) and in the process hammered the most dissjointed French team in history by a massive 5 points.[/b]

Obviously the awesome irish perfomance against the great Namibia's team (RWC favorites for sure) is miles ahead.

 

[shazbooger]

Actually Ireland is the clear favorite, forget about the ABs. I can't even imagine how could you rule out a team that has won his last tournament 23 years ago and haven't been able to beat France since 4 years ago.[/b]

Now your being silly. Ireland are shite, we all know it. Their form has been bad for the last year, Weve had two losses against Argentina, a loss to Scotland, a loss against Italy (well everywhere but the scoreboard), and another near defeat v's Namibia. That is our preparation so far. Barring a miracle, our tournament is effectively over.

You guys though. There is going to be no stopping you.

 

[Eternal Idol]

Now your being silly.[/b]

Well, that's good, at least I'm not silly all the time.

Ireland are shite, we all know it. Their form has been bad for the last year, Weve had two losses against Argentina, a loss to Scotland, a loss against Italy (well everywhere but the scoreboard), and another near defeat v's Namibia. That is our preparation so far. Barring a miracle, our tournament is effectively over.[/b]

No way, BOD is god and O'Gara is ten times better than Carter. Preparation matches are meaningless and also matches against weaker teams like the ones you mentioned couldn't be counted. Ireland is already in the final, the only issue that we could still discuss is if you are going to be able to beat the ABs or not.

 

[paco1]

<div class='quotemain'> Actually Ireland is the clear favorite, forget about the ABs. I can't even imagine how could you rule out a team that has won his last tournament 23 years ago and haven't been able to beat France since 4 years ago.[/b]

Now your being silly. Ireland are shite, we all know it. Their form has been bad for the last year, Weve had two losses against Argentina, a loss to Scotland, a loss against Italy (well everywhere but the scoreboard), and another near defeat v's Namibia. That is our preparation so far. Barring a miracle, our tournament is effectively over.

You guys though. There is going to be no stopping you.
[/b][/quote]


Ireland tournament is not over they are a team with passion and therefore the can get better than what we saw agsinst Namibia (match in which they lacked passion).
No one here, specially argentinian supporters as Eternal Idol, Lizard King or me, said Pumas are unstoppable. No Argentinian fan would ever said that. We only say we have a quite good team with a couple of talented players , and our squad plays their hearts out on the field. That can take you very far...

 

[shtove]

It's all my fault, isn't it?

I still don't rate Arg - their play against France was very limited and they won't get anywhere near the other SH teams.

My mistake is in overrating NH teams. But when it comes to Ireland, I still go by their games last November, and hope they can recover that form.

The group is going to be very ****ly and nail-biting. I am not enjoying RWC 07.

 

[shazbooger]

No way, BOD is god [/b]

I'll agree with you there. He is really.

Preparation matches are meaningless and also matches against weaker teams like the ones you mentioned couldn't be counted. [/b]

You'd think so, but then when the team gets progressively worse with every game you have to consider that maybe they peaked over there in Argentina, cause thats the best we've played in the past 6 months.

Nope were doomed to an early exit, no doubt in my mind.

 

[Eternal Idol]

It's all my fault, isn't it?[/b]

No at all. Your fault??? Why???

I still don't rate Arg - their play against France was very limited and they won't get anywhere near the other SH teams.[/b]

Maybe isn't a matter of rating but at least you could have a little bit more respect considering what the Pumas have done in the last years.

I just love statements like this one: France will crush Arg, like they were amateur opposition. Ireland should beat Arg handily, as long as we keep concentration.

As I have already said a couple of times I think that any of these teams have the potential to top the group or being knocked out.

You'd think so, but then when the team gets progressively worse with every game you have to consider that maybe they peaked over there in Argentina, cause thats the best we've played in the past 6 months.

Nope were doomed to an early exit, no doubt in my mind. [/b]

When you are right, you are right, I can't fight against reason.

 

[shazbooger]

As I have already said a couple of times I think that any of these teams have the potential to top the group or being knocked out. [/b]

But you also said;

Do you really think that Ireland is going to play more than 4 matches in this RWC? I doubt it very much.[/b][/quote]</span></span>Very similar to the stuff your accusing the Irish posters of doing in dissrespecting the Argentinian team. Same stuff, but the difference is your probably right.

Anyhoo, as you are the one person who nailed the France v Argentina result, what are your actual predictions for the group going forward?

<div class=\'quotetop\'>QUOTE(shtove @ Sep 11 2007, 03:03 PM) [snapback]258634[/snapback]</div><div class=\'quotemain\'>It's all my fault, isn't it?[/b][/quote] <span style="font-family:Tahoma">Eh ......................... yep it probably is

 

[Eternal Idol]

Very similar to the stuff your accusing the Irish posters of doing in dissrespecting the Argentinian team. Same stuff, but the difference is your probably right.[/b]

Do you really think that my statements can even be REMOTELY compared to the one that that I've cited? I don't think that's similar at all, I haven't said anything except that I think they will finish third in the group. Nothing like that they will be crushed like amateur opposition. I can see a huge difference, one of those statements was a direct answer to a particular user so you can't really count it :bleh!: and the other is in a very specific thread that talks about shocks so I'm saying that Ireland being knocked out in the first round is a shock, actually is a compliment. And as far as I remember what I've said first wasn't that but the statement stressing that anyone could top the pool ...

Anyhoo, as you are the one person who nailed the France v Argentina result, what are your actual predictions for the group going forward?[/b]

Really, no idea, anything could happen. Ireland could beat France and then the teams qualifying to QF would be already decided or everything could be decided in the last match between Argentina and Ireland.

 

[shazbooger]

Touche. Right I conceed that point

Anyway, Let me clarify my point for the other Argentinians on here. The opinions of one or two Irish posters on here do not reflect the opinions of every Irish poster on here. In the same way that the opinions of one or two Argentinian supporters do not reflect the opinion of all Argentinian supporters.

The Irish have to be optimistic at this stage. Weve waited and worried for so long that we simply have to believe we're good enough to beat both France and Argentina (were not though ). Given the backlash from the local press, all were hearing is that were doomed, were out, were finished. Its as if the tournament is over for us before its begun. The Irish are just being bullish in response. It aint personal.

As for the Argies. A great result against France. The biggest single result in Argentinain rugby history. Talk it up lads, celebrate it (we sure as hell would), but no need to drag up every quote from an Irish poster about your chances. The facts are that not many people thought that France would lose the opening game of their own competition. It was not a lack of respect for Argentinian rugby, it was maybe too much respect for Frances ability to handle the pressure. On the same point, in the game one predictions thread, 38 users said France would win. 4 went for Argentina (well done to those four, Jabali, Bok Magic, mechaniik, Mirlos) The other 38 users were from all over the globe. NH and SH users from all countries.

Fianlly. I would presume that pretty much everyone of those 38 were celebrating your win with you. Some of us may have been more shocked then others, but none of us begrudged your win (even the French).

Anyhoo. We can debate it till the sun comes home but the decider on the 30th (it is the 30th yeah?) will shut the lot of us up one way or another. Well........ until we meet again in the final .

 

[stormmaster1]

I don't know anyone who actually wrote Argentina's chances off. Most people believed that a quality French team, 6N champions and hosts of the world cup would win. They had everything going for them to beat anyone, no offence to the Argies. The 3 teams in pool D are soooo close in ability it's too tight to call easily. given it is a French tournament and the strongest Irish side ever, it's no surprise that Argentina were favourites for third place, but noone will be surprised if they go through to the semis unbeaten. A win against Ireland will result in an easier draw and they could be facing SA in the final.



As for the limited game plan: rugby is a game where winning is the priority, and the method of winning is irrelevant at the highest level. Argentina chose a game plan that was simple, easy to stick to and concentrated on their strengths and France's weaknesses. Limited? Or just an intelligent game plan? Expect a few less garryowens against Ireland as they don't have an inexperienced fullback. Expect a physical game though. Argentina will still play to their strengths.

 

[kbxa]

pumas 24-ireland 9......3 penalties of o`gara thats my prediction for the game