All Blacks squad 2011 edition

dan the man nz · Jun 5, 2011

my world cup team

assuming no more injurys and good form..

1-tony woodcock
2-kevin mealamu
3-owen franks
4-brad thorn
5-sam whitelock
6-jerome kaino
7-richie mccaw
8-kieran read

9-piri weepu
10-daniel carter
11-hosea gear
12-sonny bill williams
13-conrad smith
14-israel dagg
15-mills muliana

16-ben franks
17-andrew hore
18-ali williams
19-adam thompson
20-jimmy cowan
21-colin slade
22-issai toeva

who would you swap and why?

Larksea · Jun 13, 2011

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Props: Crockett, Woodcock, Ben Franks, Owen Franks

IMO Crockett demands selection and should be given the first chance to impress for the AB's Woodcock will have to earn his starting spot back with big performances off the bench. Franks bro's are automatic selections. Tough Call on John Afoa who hasn't done anything wrong. Crockett has just been too good.

Hookers: Mealamu, Hore, Elliot

Hika wins the 3rd spot over Flynn. though both have had good seasons.

Lock: Thorn, Boric, Whitelock, Ali Williams

Williams has done enough for me, Next in line would be Chris Jack who I really dont think would let NZ down. First 3 are pretty automatic selections. Tom Donnely Misses out after struggling to make the highlanders 15 and 22 at times.

Lose Forwards: McCaw, Read, Kaino, Messam, Matt Todd

Huge Call to leave Adam Thompson out but he's in competition with Messam for the spot and Messam has been far too good. Thompson does not have Messam's Physicality and gives a lot of penalties away. Matt Todd is in because Richie has had injury problems so an all out 7 is needed for cover.

Halfbacks: Weepu, Cowan, Elis

Been a tight competition for 9's mathewson has been good and Leonard has had a great season. Infact I'm 50/50 Leonard/Mathewson for that 3rd spot but I know Henry & co like Elis so I've given him the edge. Though I hope Elis is not needed for the big games because his slow clearing of the ball and weaker defense worries me. IMO Weepu is the Key and getting him fit and giving him heaps if game time before the WC is critical.

First 5: Carter, Donald

Carter is a no brainer, Donald has had a solid season and is improving constantly since his back injury. I donâ€™t think Cruden is ready and I think Crudens lack of size on defense will be a big target for opposition sides. One thing I see in Donald is an ability to play very well in NZ conditions at all levels. McAlister has lost his footing in recent chances he's had at 10. I can't imagine Slade can be picked after spending almost the whole season out injured though if he can come back in a big way in the ITM cup who knows.

Midfield: SBW, Nonu, Conrad Smith

Unlucky: Fruen, huge talent. Some question marks about his defense and unless Smith or Kahui are injured there just isn't any room for him.

Wingers: Sivivatu(11), Guildford(14)

Sivivatu had no chance a couple of months ago but he's come from nowhere to dominate opposition defenses and become maybe the most deadly back in NZ. Guildford I think demands inclusion, his work rate is huge, his error rate is small and he's got great speed and a HUGE ticker shows up all over the park. No room for Roks or Gear who have both been played out of the squad by Sivivatu.

Fullback: Mills, Dagg

Dagg has been out injured for a long time but he's a class act with a big future. Jane hasn't really registered on the radar this year and he lost his position as starting 14 for the AB's on the last EOY tour to Toeava.

Utility backs: Toeava (wing and fullback cover), Kahui (to cover 11 - 14)

I really hope Toeava is over his injury, he should be back for the blues come finals time and it's pretty obvious how much the blues have missed him. They are not the same team when he's out. Huge call not to select Ben Smith. I think if Toeava comes back and doesn't set the field on fire with his form Ben Smith should be selected. What gives Toeava a slight edge for me is his extra size and ability on defense. Ben smith's kicking, attack and all round skillset and low error rate have been superb this season and it pains me not to have room for him.

Kahui is an Automatic selection and IMO should even be given the first shot at the 13 Jersey. Always shines for the AB's and will be keen to cut lose after spending most of the season suck outside a ball hog (Sweeney) for the chiefs. Kahui has a rare ability to take his game to another level when he needs to and that makes him a great asset for big games.

I like the mix of this squad, seems very strong. I think some young blood is important and Sam Whitelock, Matt Todd , Dagg and Guildford provide that.

Key Players:
Richie McCaw - His leadership is critical but he also needs to produce that same form that has seen him win more IRB player of the year awards than anyone else.

Dan Carter - Goes without saying. He is the best 10 in the world and as long as he's not injured the AB's should be odds on to have a great year.

Sam Whitelock - this kid is awesome and at ~23 years old and his future in the AB's is even bigger than his almost 6ft 8in 110 kg frame.

Brad Thorn - Needs to prove that 2011 is not one year too many for him in his long carrier

Wyatt Crockett - His form suggests heâ€™s the best #1 in the world but can he finally prove that in test footy.

Sivivatu - If he gets back to his deadly best with the AB's they will have the gunpowder needed to question any defense.

Nonu - despite SBW I think Nonu will be the main man at 12 and he needs to not only be at his block busting best but also his most mature and disciplined best as well. He is more prone to penalties and cards than most backs. He needs to focus and perform for the team and put everything else behind him.

Mills - like last year we have only seen hints of how good mills is during super rugby but last year he cut lose with the AB's and was fantastic scoring 4 trys in the tri nations. If you were to highlight 5min of the best of AB's in 2010 a good 1:30 would be all Mills. As he saves his best for later in the year.

Darwin · Jun 13, 2011

As usual I agree with the majority of what you write. My thoughts:

Props: As I've mentioned before, I don't think the AB's can afford to have two specialist loose-head props in the squad. Because of this, I can't see the AB's selectors going past the combination of Woodcock, Franks*2, and Afoa. Afoa had a good season last year off the bench for the AB's, and has been solid this season for the Blues, so I think he is bound to be included. The only way I can see Crockett being included is if he overtakes Woodcock as the 1st choice loosehead prop; he certainly has been NZ's best loosehead prop on form, but I can't see the AB selectors looking past the experience that Woodcock brings (assuming he eventually recovers from injury). If any of Franks*2 or Afoa are injured I would imagine Tialata would get the call up. It's been unfortunate that Charlie Faumuina has been injured for most of the season, as he's looked great since he's been back (and is more than capable of playing on both sides of the scrum). I agree with the rest of the forward pack; personally I would select Todd to backup McCaw as well, but I suspect the AB's selectors may be more likely to select Thomson.

I wouldn't select Donald at 10, but then again I don't come from Chiefs country

In all honesty though, Donald won't be too far away from AB's selection. I really hope Slade gets back to full fitness as I believe he would be the ideal backup to Carter, but I suspect that the AB's selectors may pick McAlister (though I wouldn't be surprised to see either Cruden or Donald selected). I like your outside back selection but personally I wouldn't pick Dagg, as I think he is far too error prone. I think Ben Smith would be good choice in his place

Hosea Gear and possibly Cory Jane will likely be given a chance during the Tri-nations to prove themselves, particularly as Gear is the incumbent AB's left wing. He certainly is under pressure for the likes of Sivivatu and Guildford though.

TRF Mr Fish · Jun 13, 2011

darwin_23 said:
As usual I agree with the majority of what you write. My thoughts:

Props: As I've mentioned before, I don't think the AB's can afford to have two specialist loose-head props in the squad. Because of this, I can't see the AB's selectors going past the combination of Woodcock, Franks*2, and Afoa. Afoa had a good season last year off the bench for the AB's, and has been solid this season for the Blues, so I think he is bound to be included. The only way I can see Crockett being included is if he overtakes Woodcock as the 1st choice loosehead prop; he certainly has been NZ's best loosehead prop on form, but I can't see the AB selectors looking past the experience that Woodcock brings (assuming he eventually recovers from injury). If any of Franks*2 or Afoa are injured I would imagine Tialata would get the call up. It's been unfortunate that Charlie Faumuina has been injured for most of the season, as he's looked great since he's been back (and is more than capable of playing on both sides of the scrum). I agree with the rest of the forward pack; personally I would select Todd to backup McCaw as well, but I suspect the AB's selectors may be more likely to select Thomson.

I wouldn't select Donald at 10, but then again I don't come from Chiefs country In all honesty though, Donald won't be too far away from AB's selection. I really hope Slade gets back to full fitness as I believe he would be the ideal backup to Carter, but I suspect that the AB's selectors may pick McAlister (though I wouldn't be surprised to see either Cruden or Donald selected). I like your outside back selection but personally I wouldn't pick Dagg, as I think he is far too error prone. I think Ben Smith would be good choice in his place Hosea Gear and possibly Cory Jane will likely be given a chance during the Tri-nations to prove themselves, particularly as Gear is the incumbent AB's left wing. He certainly is under pressure for the likes of Sivivatu and Guildford though.

What I don't like about this incumbent stuff is that the only reason he has that ***le is because Sivivatu was out for the end of year tour. The only competition Gear had for his spot was with Rokocoko, who hasn't been playing especially well for a while.

TRF_stormer2010 · Jun 13, 2011

If I had to pick a squad of players I would least like to see (as a Bok supporter);

PR
1 Crockett / 3 Franks
back-up
16 Afoa / Franks

HK
2 Mealamu
back-up
17 Hore / Elliot

LK
4 Thorne / 5 Whitelock
back-up
18 Williams / Borric

LF
8 Messam / 7 McCaw / 6 Kaino
back-up
19 Read / Todd

SH
9 Weepu
back-up
20 Cowan / Mathewson

FH
10 Carter
back-up
21 ? probably Donald or Dagg if you don't mind experimenting

CE
12 Nonu / 13 Toeava
back-up
Smith / 22 Kahui

WG
11 Sivivatu / 14 Guildford

FB
15 Dagg
back-up
Muliaina / Smith

ranger · Jun 13, 2011

One thing that bothers me is that everyone dismisses any poor form that Kahui has (although he is playing well right now) and says he should be selected because he always performs in a black jersey. Fair enough, but why isn't the same courtesy offered to Corey Jane who has always played out of his skin for the All Blacks?

I really hope Henry isnt seriously considering Guildford over Jane..

TRF Mr Fish · Jun 13, 2011

ranger said:
One thing that bothers me is that everyone dismisses any poor form that Kahui has (although he is playing well right now) and says he should be selected because he always performs in a black jersey. Fair enough, but why isn't the same courtesy offered to Corey Jane who has always played out of his skin for the All Blacks?

I really hope Henry isnt seriously considering Guildford over Jane..

Ditto. Jane's been fantastic for the All Blacks over the last couple of years, he'd be my first choice 14.

With regards to Kahui, he's been off form and come alive for the All Blacks, we've never really seen Jane off form so it's hard to really say.

nickdnz · Jun 13, 2011

Invictus said:
Ditto. Jane's been fantastic for the All Blacks over the last couple of years, he'd be my first choice 14.

With regards to Kahui, he's been off form and come alive for the All Blacks, we've never really seen Jane off form so it's hard to really say.

Umm, well Gear did score 5 tries in 4 games. Don't think Sivivatu would have done the same. But I guess Gear doesn't play for the Chiefs now, does he?

My squad would be.

Props: Tony Woodcock, Owen Franks, John Afoa, Ben Franks

I'd rather have Wyatt Crockett in there over Ben Franks but because he can only play loose head, that goes against him. Woodcock has had a pretty average few seasons, but he's the most experienced prop in New Zealand history and that will help guide a fairly new front row squad. I think a possible bolter who has been very impressive and I really rate is Charlie Faumuina, who is a beast, but I think a RWC would be throwing him in the deep end too early. Mackintosh is good, but in a RWC match against England or France, he could be shown up in his scrummaging. The Franks brothers are very well rounded and very physical, while Afoa has had a good season and a great EoYT.

Hookers: Kevin Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Hikawera Elliot

Pretty much a given. Flynn is over rated and injury prone and there are no other stand outs.

Locks: Brad Thorn, Sam Whitelock, Ali Williams, Chris Jack

Probably noone elses choice of locks, but I think Chris Jack has looked like the Jack of old in his last few games. Ali Williams had been a very solid jumper but is getting in mainly on reputation. Thorn and Whitelock are a given.

Loose Forwards: McCaw, Read, Kaino, Messam, Todd

Braid has been injured quite a lot this season and Todd has been the inform 7 backup (shame about Waldrom). Hurts me to leave out Vito but he's probably not on the form he needs to beat Messam at the moment. Thompson had an awsome start to the season, but looks to have burned himself out a bit. Agree that he makes a few too many basic errors.

Scrum Halfs: Weepu, Cowan, Mathewson

Weepu is regaining his form (although still got some extra weight) and offers a good backup kicker if need be. Cowan has also been good, with a great box kick and good defense. Mathewson has probably the best running game. Andy Ellis is very over rated and offers nothing other than slow delivery. Leonard has looked like he's cut out a few of his mistakes but I don't think he offers a better running game than Mathewson or a better kicking game than Cowan/Weepu.

Fly Halfs: Daniel Carter, Luke McAlister

Not really all that convinced with McAlister a 1st 5/8th, but I am convinced that Cruden is not yet ready. Cruden hits the line well, but he'll look too often to do something special like a clever off-load, which the support has no way of catching. He's improved his kicking game but if Carter got injured in the QF I can almost guarentee Cruden would not be able to run the ship. Slade is the other possible option but he needs to recover and get more rugby.

Centres: Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Richard Kahui

I think Fruean has had a quieter second half of the year and with some of the changes in the backline he hasn't had as much of an impact. I think he's got a bright future, but the RWC may be a WC too early. Kahui is coming right, although I agree if the "good form for All Blacks" can be used, it has to be used for players like Cory Jane like ranger has said.

Outside Backs: Hosea Gear, Cory Jane, Isaia Toeava, Sitivini Sivivatu, Mils Muliaina

I may get hated because there is no Ben Smith or Zac Guildford, but I'm hurting because there is no Joe Rokocoko. I actually think Joe Rokocoko has been unfairly assessed by many people as he looks to have found some form in recent weeks, where as Sivivatu hasn't impressed me as much. Frankly I'd also get rid of Mils Muliaina as he has been invisible in most games during the S14 and I though his form in both last years Tri Nations and EoYT was poor. Yes he did some great runs, but he starved everyother outside back of ball, either kicking it away, or going it alone. I've chucked him in there because he has had a good career but Rokocoko or Ben Smith I'd rather see there with either Toeava or Jane on the wing. No Guildford because he's the most over-hyped and over rated player since Sean O'Brien.

Darwin · Jun 13, 2011

TRF_nickdnz said:
Umm, well Gear did score 5 tries in 4 games. Don't think Sivivatu would have done the same. But I guess Gear doesn't play for the Chiefs now, does he?

My squad would be.

Props: Tony Woodcock, Owen Franks, John Afoa, Ben Franks

I'd rather have Wyatt Crockett in there over Ben Franks but because he can only play loose head, that goes against him. Woodcock has had a pretty average few seasons, but he's the most experienced prop in New Zealand history and that will help guide a fairly new front row squad. I think a possible bolter who has been very impressive and I really rate is Charlie Faumuina, who is a beast, but I think a RWC would be throwing him in the deep end too early. Mackintosh is good, but in a RWC match against England or France, he could be shown up in his scrummaging. The Franks brothers are very well rounded and very physical, while Afoa has had a good season and a great EoYT.

Hookers: Kevin Mealamu, Andrew Hore, Hikawera Elliot

Pretty much a given. Flynn is over rated and injury prone and there are no other stand outs.

Locks: Brad Thorn, Sam Whitelock, Ali Williams, Chris Jack

Probably noone elses choice of locks, but I think Chris Jack has looked like the Jack of old in his last few games. Ali Williams had been a very solid jumper but is getting in mainly on reputation. Thorn and Whitelock are a given.

Loose Forwards: McCaw, Read, Kaino, Messam, Todd

Braid has been injured quite a lot this season and Todd has been the inform 7 backup (shame about Waldrom). Hurts me to leave out Vito but he's probably not on the form he needs to beat Messam at the moment. Thompson had an awsome start to the season, but looks to have burned himself out a bit. Agree that he makes a few too many basic errors.

Scrum Halfs: Weepu, Cowan, Mathewson

Weepu is regaining his form (although still got some extra weight) and offers a good backup kicker if need be. Cowan has also been good, with a great box kick and good defense. Mathewson has probably the best running game. Andy Ellis is very over rated and offers nothing other than slow delivery. Leonard has looked like he's cut out a few of his mistakes but I don't think he offers a better running game than Mathewson or a better kicking game than Cowan/Weepu.

Fly Halfs: Daniel Carter, Luke McAlister

Not really all that convinced with McAlister a 1st 5/8th, but I am convinced that Cruden is not yet ready. Cruden hits the line well, but he'll look too often to do something special like a clever off-load, which the support has no way of catching. He's improved his kicking game but if Carter got injured in the QF I can almost guarentee Cruden would not be able to run the ship. Slade is the other possible option but he needs to recover and get more rugby.

Centres: Conrad Smith, Ma'a Nonu, Sonny Bill Williams, Richard Kahui

I think Fruean has had a quieter second half of the year and with some of the changes in the backline he hasn't had as much of an impact. I think he's got a bright future, but the RWC may be a WC too early. Kahui is coming right, although I agree if the "good form for All Blacks" can be used, it has to be used for players like Cory Jane like ranger has said.

Outside Backs: Hosea Gear, Cory Jane, Isaia Toeava, Sitivini Sivivatu, Mils Muliaina

I may get hated because there is no Ben Smith or Zac Guildford, but I'm hurting because there is no Joe Rokocoko. I actually think Joe Rokocoko has been unfairly assessed by many people as he looks to have found some form in recent weeks, where as Sivivatu hasn't impressed me as much. Frankly I'd also get rid of Mils Muliaina as he has been invisible in most games during the S14 and I though his form in both last years Tri Nations and EoYT was poor. Yes he did some great runs, but he starved everyother outside back of ball, either kicking it away, or going it alone. I've chucked him in there because he has had a good career but Rokocoko or Ben Smith I'd rather see there with either Toeava or Jane on the wing. No Guildford because he's the most over-hyped and over rated player since Sean O'Brien.

Agree with most, but where is Anthony Boric? He was in great form last season for the AB's, and has probably been the from NZ lock this Super 15. At this stage of their careers Anthony Boric is a far better lock than Chris Jack; I think Boric is seriously pushing for a starting AB's spot.

As for the outside backs: Is this Rokocoko that you are mentioning the same one that got comprehensively outplayed by Zac Guildford in the weekend? Personally I can't agree with your outside backs selection as you have included Hosea Gear, and he's the most over-hyped and over rated player since Sean O'Brien

psychic duck said:
yes, does anyone know whether Dagg has played fly half, because I reckon he could

He hasn't started at 10 at Super Rugby or ITM Cup level, but he spent a lot of last season for the Highlanders at first-receiver. A lot of people have suggested that he would make a good first-five, but it is hard to know until he is given some time in the position.

TRF Mr Fish · Jun 13, 2011

TRF_nickdnz said:
Umm, well Gear did score 5 tries in 4 games. Don't think Sivivatu would have done the same. But I guess Gear doesn't play for the Chiefs now, does he?

Well if you want to solely go on tries then Maitland should obviously be in the All Blacks. Likewise Thomson should be on the wing, he's scored six tries in Super Rugby this season, thus he must be right up there with the best wings.

Not everything's about tries.

ZeFrenchy · Jun 13, 2011

I won't list a squad, as i is basically the same as everyone else's, so I will only list what I think is the main "doubts".

The main point of my post is that, more than the 30-man squad, the matchday 22 is what matters. You have to think that NZ will easily reach the Semifinals playing any squad: you could play Thompson at 7, Crocket at 3, McAllister at 10 and will still cruise through the first 5 games. Perhaps if they face England on QF it could get tricky, but not even then. Therefore, I don't see specialist backups as a must. If McCaw gets injured before the final, for instance, then you could replace him in the squad for somebody else who was not in the 30 but that could be in the training squad or in the 3N squad. So I think that all 30 should be players that could make it into the 30 in the finals or that could give rest to some players in the first games, and thus versatility is the word.

The fourth prop (besides Frankss and Woodcock): I don't think it's that important. Most of the ones mentioned are good, so the squad won't fall apart because of him.

The third hooker: won't play a single minute unless there's an injury. I'd seriously consider not taking one, as France is doing.

Fourth lock: Probably Thorn and WL will start the important matches, so the same as the fourth prop thing.

Backrowers: This is one is trickier. McCaw, Read and Kaino are obvious choices (ven if I think Vito has been better than Kaino this season) and I would give the other two spots to Thopson and Messam. No need for a specialist 7 for the reasons I said before: Thompson can do it very well up to QF, and if Richie gets injured past that, another call up can be made (as said, considering current form, I wouldn't take Kaino, but he'll be the starting blindside anyway).

Backup 10: Luke Mcallister. He is good enough to play against, and beat, pretty much any other squad. And if DC is injured for the SF or finals, they're in deep **** anyway, no matter who the backup 10 is.

Outside backs: Perhaps the hardest part. It would be too painful to leave Mils out, that ain't happening. I disagree on your comment about Gear, and I think he'll make the squad. Jane and Dagg both can play 14 and 15 well. I think at least one of them will be there. Toeava makes it because of polyfunctionality and stuff. If Gear is there, I don't see room for Joe and Sivi to be both there, so at most one of them (probably Sivivatu). And, as hard as it is, Kahui and Ranger miss out (though I'd like to see Ranger tried in the 3N).

alex · Jun 13, 2011

Toeava for Fruean or Nonu. I reckon Toeava is a bit of a jack of all trades - master of none.

Larksea · Jun 13, 2011

there are tough choices all round

Woodcock hasn't been sighted most of the season and when he has he's been pretty average. I honestly don't believe the AB's can rely on him as their Pillar at 1 with him not having put in a good performance on the field in over 6 months. Because of that I see Crockett as a must. Charlie Faumaina is a very impressive fellow but Owen Franks was all over him in the scrum last weekend, before that I would have pushed his bane for a bolter.

Gear is also a tough call. He was very good on the northern tour last year but that was against pretty easy northern competition. I dont think you can establish your self in the AB's unless you perform in the tri nations. Which gear hasn't done. Also IMO gear hasn't looked the same threat this year as he did last year at the end of the super14 and during the Maori games. He very well may get his chance in this Tri nations but I think it's risky not testing him against the big sides before commiting to him for a WC. Sivivatu's ability to break tackles and eat ground up will be a big asset to the AB's and he seems to be improving all the time right now. Guildford is a tough call - but I really like the fact that when he's on the field it's like having another extra half a player on the field with all the work he does. And on counter attack he is a spectacular link man.

Jane - well IMO he was the man at the end of 2008 and during 2009 as well but 2010 he was pretty average and by the end of the season Toeava was actually holding the 14 jersey. I think he really needed to fight this year to claim his spot back in the selectors eyes and I dont think he's done that. Compare his game to what Guildford is doing right now and it's no contest.

On the backup 10, I would really like to see Slade come back in the ITM cup and play his way into the squad with great form. McAlister was great at the start of the season but as the intensity and compitition has increased he has kinda gone off the radar. That may be a symptom of all the changes that have been going on in the blues bacline since Toeava was injured but even his goal kicking has suffered. And Being out kicked by Donald on his home ground hurt him.

As far as Toeava goes the big mistake was to put Toeava into the mid field in test rugby. He is a fullback who can cover the wing and every chance he's had in those positions in test rugby he's been brilliant with the exception of hong kong last season where he made a couple critical mistakes at the end but at the time like Donald he had been pretty starved of rugby and it was the first test of their season for both of them when the majority of the two teams had been through june warmup tests and 6 tough tri nations games.

One thing that's for sure is when this squad is named there will be some suprises and also some disapointed people

William18 · Jun 14, 2011

Larksea, I really hate how you have been going on and on about Toeava being the "incumbent" All Black's right wing. He was picked in Henry's form XV against Wales last year, that is true. There is, however, a big difference between being the form right wing on last year's end of year tour and replacing an incumbent who has had the position for over a year and who has always performed well. Besides, Toeava was hardly great on last year's tour a decent game against Scotland and a terrible one against ASustralia got him selected to play Wales. Personally, I think that Henry just wanted to see Toeava start because he had only started one game while Jane had already started in 2. Regardless, I would have both of them in my squad.

And also Kahui first shot at the All Blacks? Get off of it. I thought Conrad put that debate to bed a long time ago. In saying all that my squad would look pretty similar to yours.

Darwin · Jun 14, 2011

ZeFrenchy said:
I won't list a squad, as i is basically the same as everyone else's, so I will only list what I think is the main "doubts".

The main point of my post is that, more than the 30-man squad, the matchday 22 is what matters. You have to think that NZ will easily reach the Semifinals playing any squad: you could play Thompson at 7, Crocket at 3, McAllister at 10 and will still cruise through the first 5 games. Perhaps if they face England on QF it could get tricky, but not even then. Therefore, I don't see specialist backups as a must. If McCaw gets injured before the final, for instance, then you could replace him in the squad for somebody else who was not in the 30 but that could be in the training squad or in the 3N squad. So I think that all 30 should be players that could make it into the 30 in the finals or that could give rest to some players in the first games, and thus versatility is the word.

The fourth prop (besides Frankss and Woodcock): I don't think it's that important. Most of the ones mentioned are good, so the squad won't fall apart because of him.

The problem is that Crockett or Woodock have never played at tighthead at even ITM Cup level; because of this they are not even viable bench options. As you mention versatility is an important, and because of this Afoa is bound to get into the squad ahead of Crockett.

ZeFrenchy said:
The third hooker: won't play a single minute unless there's an injury. I'd seriously consider not taking one, as France is doing.

I think it is a risk not taking 3 hookers, as if there is an injury less than 48 hours from kick-off you are going into the match with only one hooker. While I'm sure Afoa/Woodock would be fine at hooker against some of the lesser teams, I certainly wouldn't want them to be my backup hooker in a world cup quarter/semi/final! The AB's tend to rotate their team during the pool stages, so whoever is the third hooker should at least get some good time off the bench during the pool matches (if not start one of the matches),

ZeFrenchy said:
Backrowers: This is one is trickier. McCaw, Read and Kaino are obvious choices (ven if I think Vito has been better than Kaino this season) and I would give the other two spots to Thopson and Messam. No need for a specialist 7 for the reasons I said before: Thompson can do it very well up to QF, and if Richie gets injured past that, another call up can be made (as said, considering current form, I wouldn't take Kaino, but he'll be the starting blindside anyway).

While I think the AB's selectors will take the five you suggest, I think there definitely is room for another specialist 7. You are right in suggesting that Thomson could do an adequate job at 7 during the pool stage, but equally Matt Todd could do an adequate job at 6 during these stages (or at 7, with McCaw at 6...). If McCaw got injured I'd be terrified of having Thomson start at 7 in an important game, as he's never played well at 7; indeed I'd be more inclined to play Messem at 7. While you are right that you could call up another player if McCaw go injured, I'd rather have someone who had been with the squad all season and knows the All Blacks game plan and calls inside out, rather than throw someone in who hasn't played for the AB's all season (if at all). While I'd certainly prefer to have Messem on the bench for the important matches, it wouldn't bother me to see them have a specialist 7 on the bench. They often did on last seasons EOYT (with Dan Braid), as McCaw looked very comfortable shifting to 6 or 8 when Braid came on.

ZeFrenchy said:
Backup 10: Luke Mcallister. He is good enough to play against, and beat, pretty much any other squad. And if DC is injured for the SF or finals, they're in deep **** anyway, no matter who the backup 10 is.

Outside backs: Perhaps the hardest part. It would be too painful to leave Mils out, that ain't happening. I disagree on your comment about Gear, and I think he'll make the squad. Jane and Dagg both can play 14 and 15 well. I think at least one of them will be there. Toeava makes it because of polyfunctionality and stuff. If Gear is there, I don't see room for Joe and Sivi to be both there, so at most one of them (probably Sivivatu). And, as hard as it is, Kahui and Ranger miss out (though I'd like to see Ranger tried in the 3N).

polyfunctionality.... what a fantastic word!

William18 said:
Larksea, I really hate how you have been going on and on about Toeava being the "incumbent" All Black's right wing. He was picked in Henry's form XV against Wales last year, that is true. There is, however, a big difference between being the form right wing on last year's end of year tour and replacing an incumbent who has had the position for over a year and who has always performed well. Besides, Toeava was hardly great on last year's tour a decent game against Scotland and a terrible one against ASustralia got him selected to play Wales. Personally, I think that Henry just wanted to see Toeava start because he had only started one game while Jane had already started in 2. Regardless, I would have both of them in my squad.

And also Kahui first shot at the All Blacks? Get off of it. I thought Conrad put that debate to bed a long time ago. In saying all that my squad would look pretty similar to yours.

I amuses me that people from Wellington complain that Toeava is not the incumbent right wing, while people from Chiefs territory suggest that Hosea Gear is not the incumbent left wing:lol:

I'm not sure what tour you were watching last year, but 20 mins against Australia aside Toeava had a fantastic EOYT. He had a strong match against Scotland, made a huge impact when he came on against England (including making a huge try saving tackle on Hape in the corner), and was brilliant against Wales (including scoring at try himself, and laying on a try for Hosea Gear after beating 3-4 players). He certainly had a better tour than Jane. Toeava has been great for the AB's for the last two years almost every time he's played at wing/fullback, and was the form fullback of this season's Super 15 before injury (and I think it is pretty obvious how much the Blues miss him). As much as I like Jane, I think Toeava (assuming he is fit) has the AB's right wing spot sewn up at this stage.

I agree entirely on Conrad Smith though. While Kahui is a good player, Conrad Smith is in a different class in my opinion; he'd still be one of the first names I'd write down if I was picking the AB's starting lineup.

Larksea · Jun 14, 2011

Hosea Gear kinda is the incumbent 11 but this is the hottest contested postion in New Zealand. No one owns this jersey that's for sure

Guildford
Sivivatu
Rokocoko
Gear
Rene Ranger

Bar ranger who is now injured as well all these players have a chance to claim 11 as theirs. Also consider the fact that Richard Kahui and Dagg have also been pretty hot in this Jersey. Gear only really got his chance while Sivivatu, Kahui and Dagg were all injured. Of those only Dagg is out injured now and can't be too far away.

As for Jane, he became a force and was a huge improver in 2008, 2009 he was also very good but last year he was very quiet and though the 14 jersey has mostly be his over the last few years Toeava got the nod when the best side was picked at the end of last season and Jane hasn't had a hot super15 this year to demand his re-selection.

Wing is a position of huge depth in NZ. I think it would be a shame to pick players who are not in form. Pick the best/form players and create healthy competition - that's what I would do.

But Most of all, Pick Piri Weepu and get him fully fit! I can't stress how Important I think that is.

nickdnz · Jun 14, 2011

Invictus said:
Well if you want to solely go on tries then Maitland should obviously be in the All Blacks. Likewise Thomson should be on the wing, he's scored six tries in Super Rugby this season, thus he must be right up there with the best wings.

Not everything's about tries.

None of which are for the All Blacks. Hosea Gear has also scored six tries, which isn't bad considering the time he has been injured (only two less than Maitland, and incidentally I'd have Maitland over Guildford). If we are going off form, Hosea Gear has been awsome over his last few games for the All Blacks. It's the same people who say he shouldn't have been in the squad for the EoYT when he ripped up, that still say the same now. Sivivatu strings two good games together after being out for the better part of 2010 and this season, and people say he should be given the starting spot. As for the Gear argument "he only got the spot because everyone else way injured", sure, he was in hot form for the better part of two years and was ignored, but that doesn't mean he hasn't since proved how good he is, with even the coaches admitting they should have selected him a lot earlier.

I alsio hate the "It was against weaker nations" argument, as in 2009 Sivivatu only scored two tries on the EoYT and in 2008 he only scored one try on the EoYT. Sivivatu has also scored only one try in the 2009 try nations, despite playing in five of the six games. I get that form doesn't always equal tries, but he's hardly the attacking weapon everyone always makes him out to be. He very rarely ever seems to hit full gear.

TRF Mr Fish · Jun 14, 2011

TRF_nickdnz said:
None of which are for the All Blacks. Hosea Gear has also scored six tries, which isn't bad considering the time he has been injured (only two less than Maitland, and incidentally I'd have Maitland over Guildford). If we are going off form, Hosea Gear has been awsome over his last few games for the All Blacks. It's the same people who say he shouldn't have been in the squad for the EoYT when he ripped up, that still say the same now. Sivivatu strings two good games together after being out for the better part of 2010 and this season, and people say he should be given the starting spot. As for the Gear argument "he only got the spot because everyone else way injured", sure, he was in hot form for the better part of two years and was ignored, but that doesn't mean he hasn't since proved how good he is, with even the coaches admitting they should have selected him a lot earlier.

I alsio hate the "It was against weaker nations" argument, as in 2009 Sivivatu only scored two tries on the EoYT and in 2008 he only scored one try on the EoYT. Sivivatu has also scored only one try in the 2009 try nations, despite playing in five of the six games. I get that form doesn't always equal tries, but he's hardly the attacking weapon everyone always makes him out to be. He very rarely ever seems to hit full gear.

Sivivatu is far more likely to create tries than score them, if people are only going to look at his tries scored then of course they're going to be disappointed.

nickdnz · Jun 14, 2011

Invictus said:
Sivivatu is far more likely to create tries than score them, if people are only going to look at his tries scored then of course they're going to be disappointed.

Right, it's not as if wingers are supposed to be finishers or anything...

In honesty, I'm not even saying Sivivatu doesn't deserve a spot (I included him in my Tri Nations team), my point is that he is being put forward in the team over a past record and ability which seems to grow the longer he doesn't play, whereas there are wingers who are regarded by much of the world as one of the best such as Hosea Gear, who some fans would like to see his jersey ripped from his back and given to Sivivatu on two games of looking good.

TRF Mr Fish · Jun 14, 2011

TRF_nickdnz said:
Right, it's not as if wingers are supposed to be finishers or anything...

In honesty, I'm not even saying Sivivatu doesn't deserve a spot (I included him in my Tri Nations team), my point is that he is being put forward in the team over a past record and ability which seems to grow the longer he doesn't play, whereas there are wingers who are regarded by much of the world as one of the best such as Hosea Gear, who some fans would like to see his jersey ripped from his back and given to Sivivatu on two games of looking good.

In the past wingers may have been supposed to be finishers, but I think they're supposed to be a bit less one-dimensional than that nowadays

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