All Blacks: Ben Smith vs Cory Jane

[Sam Owen]

Ben Smith without any doubt.

It's hard to remember an all black who deserved his selection more and then went and justified it so well.

arguments that he's slow are false, I mean a couple people saying oh this guy dragged him off or this guy did once. Whole highlanders campaign is a highlight real of Ben Smith basically dragging everyone off. Linebreak after linebreak after linebreak basically from raw speed and energy.

The big difference for me is that for every really good test Cory Jane has he has a number of quiet games, Ben Smith simply does not have quiet games. he is everywhere, every game is the ben smith show. And for all his huge workload, his error rate is almost non existent. I mean what errors has he made in the 5 tests this year? (in which hes scored like 7 trys) one knock on in this last game when a ball was basically passed behind his feet. He always makes the correct decision and almost never makes unforced errors.

No back in NZ save maybe Dan carter has the all round skill set and impact Ben Smith has.

Obviously you love Ben Smith like you loved Stephen Donald. I think he's a very good All Black winger but I've yet to see him beat anyone for a try. He's basically caught the ball and gassed it to the line. Like I said before, he does have evasive skills and obviously that's why he's an All Black but I haven't seen him sidestep his opposition (like O'Connor did to him) or bump off his opposite (like Franks did to him) or even fend off would-be tacklers for a try. I haven't seen from him what makes All Black wingers so great to watch, I've just seen catch, run and dive.

Good player. Is he better than CJ?...they're both good and about the same. CJ would have scored those tries that Ben Smith has for the ABs IMO.

 

[nickdnz]

he missed two one on one tackles on O'Conner on Saturday, or are they not mistakes when it is Ben Smith? Seriously just because someone has scored tries doesn't mean they had a good game. He was pretty average on the weekend. When Mogg recovered that kick from over the sideline, Smith just stood there and watched him.. Another mistake.

He isn't slow, but neither is he fast, I've never seen him smoke someone like Nanai Williams smoked him. He doesn't have the ability to beat someone one on one either. He can break a staggered defensive line for sure, but put him one on one and he is no Cory Jane or Savea.

That last comment is borderline absurd. Dagg has a better all round skill set, notice who kicked the goal when Taylor was off? And who always slots in as a second punting option?

Obviously you love Ben Smith like you loved Stephen Donald. I think he's a very good All Black winger but I've yet to see him beat anyone for a try. He's basically caught the ball and gassed it to the line. Like I said before, he does have evasive skills and obviously that's why he's an All Black but I haven't seen him sidestep his opposition (like O'Connor did to him) or bump off his opposite (like Franks did to him) or even fend off would-be tacklers for a try. I haven't seen from him what makes All Black wingers so great to watch, I've just seen catch, run and dive.

Good player. Is he better than CJ?...they're both good and about the same. CJ would have scored those tries that Ben Smith has for the ABs IMO.

These posts sum it up for me. He doesn't have raw pace and he doesn't really beat players one on one with a great step or great power. If there is one thing he is better at than almost any winger in New Zealand, it's finding a hole in a defensive line and running through. He is exceptional at that, no doubt. He runs great lines as well. But lets put it in perspective and not get carried away - he is not the complete player. I'm not even saying he hasn't performed better on the wing for the All Blacks than I predicted, because he has - but for me the hyperbole makes me more critical of players than I would otherwise be. He's done a good job for the All Blacks, so far he's filled Cory Jane's boots very well - but lets not pretend he is the new Christian Cullen..

 

[admartian]

These posts sum it up for me. He doesn't have raw pace and he doesn't really beat players one on one with a great step or great power. If there is one thing he is better at than almost any winger in New Zealand, it's finding a hole in a defensive line and running through. He is exceptional at that, no doubt. He runs great lines as well. But lets put it in perspective and not get carried away - he is not the complete player. I'm not even saying he hasn't performed better on the wing for the All Blacks than I predicted, because he has - but for me the hyperbole makes me more critical of players than I would otherwise be. He's done a good job for the All Blacks, so far he's filled Cory Jane's boots very well - but lets not pretend he is the new Christian Cullen..

This is his greatest strength and what gives him the status he has. Realistically though? I don't think he has the natural athletic traits that Dagg or Jane does. But I think he makes up for it with those abilities above and discipline and nous.

I think too much is said for those that get excited about him, to which I personally don't see any harm. Hype trains are fun so long you know what you're on.

 

[Jaguares]

Some of you guys saying Dagg should be on bench and Smith for No.15. Dagg show the ability many times his very solid under the highball, provided with his good vision, thundering punts and dangerous counter attacks.

Once CJ returns I rather have him at No.14 then Smith.

My All Blacks backline when CJ comes back, which is probably next year in 2014.

9. Aaron Smith
10. Dan Carter/Aaron Cruden
11. Julian Savea
12. Ma'a Nonu (Needs to find an Super Rugby franchise)
13. Conrad Smith/Ben Smith (Ben Smiths provides cover over 14, 15, but I rather have him at 13)
14. Cory Jane
15. Israel Dagg

I think that Ben Smith is too smaller to play at 13, he weighs 10 kg unless Conrad Smith:

Conrad Smith: 1.86 m and 95 kg / Ben Smith: 1.87 m and 85 kg

Conrad isn't so big for the international level, most of the centres weigh over 100 kg like Manu Tuilagi (112 kg) or Jamie Roberts (110 kg) then Ben is too light for that position

Cheers

 

[nickdnz]

I think that Ben Smith is too smaller to play at 13, he weighs 10 kg unless Conrad Smith:

Conrad Smith: 1.86 m and 95 kg / Ben Smith: 1.87 m and 85 kg

Conrad isn't so big for the international level, most of the centres weigh over 100 kg like Manu Tuilagi (112 kg) or Jamie Roberts (110 kg) then Ben is too light for that position

Cheers

Actually I don't think wikipedia has his weight right anyway. Allblacks.com has him listed at 91kgs.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/profile.asp?ABID=1100

Regardless, unless his defense isn't good enough then who gives a crap what other teams have? Ma'a Nonu's defense has been very shoddy lately, so he can't do much worse.

I really think weight is a red herring when selecting players. Conrad Smith isn't big but I swear he can drive more metres than just about any centre I've seen.

 

[Big Ewis]

plus, Ben Smith is the most boring name of all-time. Cory Jane sounds musical...it's almost sexy. So hands down Jane.

 

[Aspry]

plus, Ben Smith is the most boring name of all-time. Cory Jane sounds musical...it's almost sexy. So hands down Jane.

Plus there's already two Smith's on the All Blacks squad, three are too much.

Nah, talking seriously I would choose Cory Jane over Ben Smith.

 

[dasNdanger]

plus, Ben Smith is the most boring name of all-time. Cory Jane sounds musical...it's almost sexy. So hands down Jane.

Watch this to the end - you will laugh!




:-D


das

 

[Jaguares]

Actually I don't think wikipedia has his weight right anyway. Allblacks.com has him listed at 91kgs.

http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/profile.asp?ABID=1100

Regardless, unless his defense isn't good enough then who gives a crap what other teams have? Ma'a Nonu's defense has been very shoddy lately, so he can't do much worse.

I really think weight is a red herring when selecting players. Conrad Smith isn't big but I swear he can drive more metres than just about any centre I've seen.

Precisely for that reason, if Nonu isn't a good tackler make a pair: "Nonu-Ben Smith" is crazy. Conrad Smith is a great tackler, his replacement should be as good tackler than he and start putting a smaller guy isn't a good start. The center court could be an open highway for rivals.

Cheers

 

[nickdnz]

But I'd be happy for a small inside centre at 12...

 

[Jaguares]

But I'd be happy for a small inside centre at 12...

Yeah but to be the Nonu's partner in the center of the field should be as good a tackler as Conrad, and he isn't.

Cheers

 

[Icemn]

I love ben smith, I love Conrad smith, I love jane... but I will still pick jane on 14... jane is the best under the high ball in the world... prove me wrong..i dare you... Jane has got the best hand off in the world... Cory "the hand of god" Jane... you need to get both of them in the team... i'll play ben on 13 when Conrad calls it a day... IF Conrad calls it a day...

I think you need to ask... ben smith or dagg.... that is tough one...

but this is the problem with the AB team... too many good players in the same position... someone needs to lose out

 

[sifplay]

Why has a topic discussing Ben Smith vs Cory Jane descended into South African SR wingers?


I said Jane, btw. For my money he's the best winger in the world.
Smith is some man, though. I could get behind the idea of Smith at 15, with Jane on the wing.
Only the All Blacks could have the problem of having to leave a player of Dagg/Jane/Smith's quality out of their starting XV...

Mvovo vs Basson oh god please don't remind us who we got to look forward to

 

[big ginger 8]

I love ben smith, I love Conrad smith, I love jane... but I will still pick jane on 14... jane is the best under the high ball in the world... prove me wrong..i dare you... Jane has got the best hand off in the world... Cory "the hand of god" Jane... you need to get both of them in the team... i'll play ben on 13 when Conrad calls it a day... IF Conrad calls it a day...

I think you need to ask... ben smith or dagg.... that is tough one...

but this is the problem with the AB team... too many good players in the same position... someone needs to lose out

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gwxjHV3_bVA" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

For the record I do think Jane is superb under the high ball but saying he's outright the best is a bit outlandish considering players like Kearney, Beale and Folau. He's up there with the best in the world but I don't think there necessarily is a best.

 

[Icemn]

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/gwxjHV3_bVA" frameBorder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

For the record I do think Jane is superb under the high ball but saying he's outright the best is a bit outlandish considering players like Kearney, Beale and Folau. He's up there with the best in the world but I don't think there necessarily is a best.

the reason why I say jane is the best in world rugby is because he proved this on the higest stage against the 2nd best team according to in the world at the time...

AUS 2011 RWC Semi final... Jane won that game for NZ, and that game was dominated by up and unders... and Jane did not make 1 mistake...


Please look from the 3min mark (if you don't want to watch the entire vid) the semi final game... and especially at the 4min mark which I think is still the best moment of the entire world cup... it is amazing... I don't know how he managed to catch the ball...i'm not sure if anyone picked it up at the time... just look closely... Jane is so underrated, Gear and Jane is by far my favourite wingers... I rate jane far far far better than Brian banana even, who only has speed and a hard work rate (rooney has a good workrate but is still crap), but can not play rugby at all, cant tackle, can't pass...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWmL4ijXZw



check the skill set at 1min 5sec mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNXsqs35860



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavMNiElXp8

 

[big ginger 8]

the reason why I say jane is the best in world rugby is because he proved this on the higest stage against the 2nd best team according to in the world at the time...

AUS 2011 RWC Semi final... Jane won that game for NZ, and that game was dominated by up and unders... and Jane did not make 1 mistake...


Please look from the 3min mark (if you don't want to watch the entire vid) the semi final game... and especially at the 4min mark which I think is still the best moment of the entire world cup... it is amazing... I don't know how he managed to catch the ball...i'm not sure if anyone picked it up at the time... just look closely... Jane is so underrated, Gear and Jane is by far my favourite wingers... I rate jane far far far better than Brian banana even, who only has speed and a hard work rate (rooney has a good workrate but is still crap), but can not play rugby at all, cant tackle, can't pass...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OmWmL4ijXZw



check the skill set at 1min 5sec mark...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNXsqs35860



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qavMNiElXp8

I'm not talking about his ability as a player but his ability under the highball. He's excellent but definitely not without a doubt the world's best. What team you play for or who you're against. The first high ball clips are of Kearney for the Lions vs at the time the number one ranked South Africa. That tells you nothing about high ball skills. If you were to do something like that it would be better to note the players they're competing against. After the 3 minute mark in that first video competes with Ioane 3 times and Genia twice which is not best indicator, though to be fair if you really wanted to analyse it fully you'd have to look at where he's coming from and where his competitor is coming from as well as other stuff.

 

[Big Ewis]

Watch this to the end - you will laugh!




:-D


das

uh oh...we're (well, I AM) going off-topic again ! I'm so fkn useless to this forum, no actually wait, I'll take that back, I'll probably get like 6 ppl quoting my post and going "THAT'S RIGHT" or some sht...and FK YOU in advance yeh !! : p

anyways: guuuurl, don't even get me STARTED on black American names !!! As an NBA fanatic, my mind has partially (....AND subconsciously) turned into a host of drawers with black ppl name archives. Folders, full of em....FULL OF EM !!!!
Dajuan, Deshawn, Latoya, Shareef, Omar, Lamar, Shaquille, Lebron, Carmelo, Alonzo...list goes on and on and on. I'm absolutely sick to my stomach...and other important organs, most definitely too.

Very cool vid: total parody of an absolutely pathetic (and problematic !) phenomenon in America.

 

[dasNdanger]

uh oh...we're (well, I AM) going off-topic again ! I'm so fkn useless to this forum, no actually wait, I'll take that back, I'll probably get like 6 ppl quoting my post and going "THAT'S RIGHT" or some sht...and FK YOU in advance yeh !! : p

anyways: guuuurl, don't even get me STARTED on black American names !!! As an NBA fanatic, my mind has partially (....AND subconsciously) turned into a host of drawers with black ppl name archives. Folders, full of em....FULL OF EM !!!!
Dajuan, Deshawn, Latoya, Shareef, Omar, Lamar, Shaquille, Lebron, Carmelo, Alonzo...list goes on and on and on. I'm absolutely sick to my stomach...and other important organs, most definitely too.

Very cool vid: total parody of an absolutely pathetic (and problematic !) phenomenon in America.

Did you make it to the end?? That last one just makes me lol! :-D


I never had to pegged for an NBA fanatic. Honestly, though, those names are no worse than our Rokocokos and Piri Weepus and Danny Grewcocks...heh.


das

 

[admartian]

uh oh...we're (well, I AM) going off-topic again ! I'm so fkn useless to this forum, no actually wait, I'll take that back, I'll probably get like 6 ppl quoting my post and going "THAT'S RIGHT" or some sht...and FK YOU in advance yeh !! : p

anyways: guuuurl, don't even get me STARTED on black American names !!! As an NBA fanatic, my mind has partially (....AND subconsciously) turned into a host of drawers with black ppl name archives. Folders, full of em....FULL OF EM !!!!
Dajuan, Deshawn, Latoya, Shareef, Omar, Lamar, Shaquille, Lebron, Carmelo, Alonzo...list goes on and on and on. I'm absolutely sick to my stomach...and other important organs, most definitely too.

Very cool vid: total parody of an absolutely pathetic (and problematic !) phenomenon in America.

D'Brickashaw (LT for the Jets) and Jadaveon (a college football player) are still some of my favourites.

 

[Kapa O Pango]

I think that Ben Smith is too smaller to play at 13, he weighs 10 kg unless Conrad Smith:

Conrad Smith: 1.86 m and 95 kg / Ben Smith: 1.87 m and 85 kg

Conrad isn't so big for the international level, most of the centres weigh over 100 kg like Manu Tuilagi (112 kg) or Jamie Roberts (110 kg) then Ben is too light for that position

Cheers

Too light? Was Shane Williams too light? too small? 5'7 80kg. Shane Williams made an mess of the top tier international with his lovely speed and side-stepping, up against wingers 10kg and sometimes 30kg heavier. Ben Smith would do exceptionally fine. Would need to learn an few tackling tips from Conrad Smith, because his tackling is always solid.