AI Outcomes

[dullonien]

So what are the outcomes that can be taken by your country from the Autumn inernational series? In the run up to the world cup, which players cemented their places in future squads and which players blew their chances.

From a Welsh perspective, although it's been an extremely disapointing AI resuts wise, we found out alot about our squad, developed a few players and competed well in 3/4 of the games. For the 6 nations, I'd pick a squad like this:

Props: Gethin Jenkins, Adam Jones, Paul James, Another tighthead
Hookers: Matthew Rees, Richard Hibbard, Ken Owens (please drop Huw Bennett)
Second Rows: Alun-Wyn Jones, Bradley Davies, Luke Charteris, Ian Evans
Back row: Sam Warburton, Martyn Williams, Dan Lydiate, Josh Turnbull, Toby Faletau, Ryan Jones, Andy Powell, Rob McCusker

Scrum halves: Mike Phillips, Richie Rees, Tavis Knoyle
Outside halves: Stephen Jones, James Hook (also centre option), Jason Tovey (also fullback option)
Centres: Gavin Henson, Jamie Roberts, Jonathan Davies, Tom Shanklin/Andrew Bishop
Back three: George North, Leigh Halfpenny, Morgan Stoddard, Byrne, Rhys Priestland (sorry Cumro), Shane Williams (Will Harries/Aled Brew/Tom James if Shane isn't fit)

So from that we can see that I think Bennett, Gough, Deiniol Jones, JT and Biggar have played themselves out of near future contention. The squad is a few players larger than it will be for the WC, but this is in order to accommodate all the youngsters in the backrow, Tovey at outside half and plenty of options at fullback (Tovey, Priestland, Halfpenny, Byrne, Stoddard). There is a possiblity one of Peel or Lloyd Williams could force their way into the squad in front of Rees or Knoyle.

I've included Henson, although there's a good chance he won't be ready yet. If he's there, then I want to see Hook back at 10, back to the '08 kind of arrangement when he and Stephen Jones shared the role. Tovey to get some gametime against Italy maybe.

I'm not sure who the last prop should be at the moment. There's a few to choose from. I thought Craig Mitchell had a strong game last night, but he's a little up and down. Maybe Paul James will have to be tighthead cover and another looshead is brought in?

 

[TRF_Cymro]

You cant really pick Preistland as he not shown any real consistency over a period of time. He is back playing 10, yes as Stephen Jones is absent but Daniel Evans has looked better at 15 than Preistland has.

Unlikely go into the 6 Nations with just 4 props, normally they go 5. Probably one less backrow also.

 

[dullonien]

He's shown more consistency than most of the other choices we have at fullback, including Dan Evans who seems to be in and out of the Scarlets team like a yoyo. Priestland may get moved about, but that's because he's considered the best option at both fullback and outside half when Steven Jones is with Wales. He's been winning the Scarlets games this season, and has had big roles in all of their good performances. He, along with Tovey (who's also a good option at fullback) and Dan Evans are all playing better rugby than Byrne at the moment, so I'd give one of them a go unless Byrne improves massively.

Two more props then, Iestyn Thomas has been going well, but I'm not sure if he's worth it considering his age. Another tighthead is a must, but I honestly don't know who's the best option at the moment. As for the backrow, I'm not sure who to leave out, I certainly want to see all the youngsters in Warburton, Turnbull, Lydiate, McCusker and faletau there, but I still think Martyn and Ryan Jones have big parts to play. Maybe leave out Powell considering his moment of madness against NZ?

 

[DuncTheDoodle]

I'd go with your squad, but replace Ian Evans with him namesake Gough, just because he provides a bit of grunt off the bench. He'll come on, thump a couple of people, then go and have a lie down. I wouldn't start him, just have him as impact. As for another prop, Andrews seems solid enough and is a tighthead, while Ryan Bevvington was playing well in the 1 jersey up until injury.

I'd have Harries over Stoddart, although I have been impressed by both. Brew doesn't deserve to be dropped on the basis of one game, too.

 

[dullonien]

I haven't seen Gough having that impact for quite a while now unfortunately. When was the last time you saw one of his trademark big hits? Ian Evans isn't great either, and is far from the player he was before injury, but we know the kind of player he can be and is still relitively young, he's also our best lineout jumper. I haven't been impressed with Andrews. His scrummaging is nowhere near international standard unfortunately, because the rest of his game is excellent. But then again, none of the options are all that great scrum time. Whoever prooves they can cut it scrum time, get's the spot.

Harries is still there or thereabouts, but his stock has gone down recently in my book. Has to proove he can cut it defensively. I think Stoddard is probably a better all round player, though he does have his faults too. It's very close between all of Harries, Brew, Stoddard, James and even Czekaj really, pick two from that lot.

 

[Seaton]

For Scotland, I would say that Richie Gray has possibly cemented a spot as a first choice lock, whilst Joe Ansbro may well have got himself at least a presence on the bench.
Richie Vernon has also done himself some good after the NZ shocker. Jackson also did well when he came on.

Otherwise not much could be done with Kellock, Beattie, Cusiter, Danielli and Rory Lamont injured, and their places (bar Rory) are still pretty much their own.
Withstanding the injured players, I would be happy with the same squad come the 6 Nations

Players who are first hoice in my mind are:

Props: Allan Jacobsen, Euan Murray
Hooker: Ross Ford
Locks: Allistair Kellock, Richie Gray, Nathan Hines
Back-Rowers: Johnnie Beattie, John Barclay, Kelly Brown
Scrum halves: Chris Cusiter, Mike Blair, Rory Lawson
Fly-halves: Dan Parks, Rudriah Jackson
Wings: Simon Danielli, Sean Lamont, Max Evans?
Centers: Graeme Morrison, Max Evans, Joe Ansbro
Full-backs: Hugo Southwell, Joe Ansbri, Chris Paterson

 

[Teh Mite]

England:

Sheridan - Shown he can't compete with the best, but is happy to bully the weaker packs. A certain starter, but not necessarily rightfully.
Hartley - Steadily improved as the series went on after a slow start. Showed good glippses of both his good and bad sides (notably giving away penalties)
Cole - Looked tired against the Boks (maybe they made him that way), more then held his own against the rest.
Lawes - Made the England 4 shirt his own
Palmer - Effective in the lineout (mostly), but showed against the Boks that he's still a glass of water in the rough stuff
Croft - The vital cog
Moody - Much ado about nothing at openside, annonymous at blindside
Easter - The old carthorse kept trundling on. Nothing special, but did nothing wrong either. Shame Dowson can't get a look in.
Youngs - Immense up until the Springboks when again he looked tired.
Flood - Excercised the deamons of Wilkinsons name to make himself the 1st choice 10.
Cueto - Flashes of his old self, surprised just about everyone. Linked with Foden well.
Hape - Unfair to brutally criticise him considering Tindall was there, but he was bloody awful throughout.
Tindall - A complete shambles. Offered nothing except a memory.
Ashton - Made the 14 shirt his own
Foden - Looks set in place, only injury can really dislodge him

Thompson - Still not his vintage, but plenty of aggression and heart which adds plenty to the team
Wilson - Did alright, maybe should be tested at loosehead.
Shaw - Was he ever on the pitch (apart from when South Africa scored?). Come in number 4, your time is up.
Fourie - Was impressive, but there's no future there.
Care - Looking like a poor mans Youngs throughout.
Hodgson - The unluckiest man in world rugby always brings bad luck upon England. Won't feature in the World Cup.
Banahan - At centre: See Tindall (without the good memories). On the Wing: No.
Armitage - Destined for an international career of getting splinters up his arse until Foden is injured or he's given a run at 13.

The rest? Can't remember them.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Don't think that's fair about Hodgson, England looked much better after he came on
Though it's unfortunate he only got a look in when the whole team was underperforming/getting bullied by the Boks, he's not the best behind a retreating/bullied pack

 

[dullonien]

England cerainly have got a good base of players to work from, with the front five looking strong. To me, a little more depth needs to be created at second row. There's plenty of stand-out second rows playing in the Premiership, so it shouldn't be difficult to find, but Johnson has to realise that Shaw has finally past his sell by date.

I'm still not atall convinced with the backrow, apart from Croft who's a truly excellent player. Moody always puts his body on the line, but he's neither all that destructive in the rucks ala Pocock, or that great a link-man ala Martyn Williams. Easter has done well, but he has too many off days.

In the backs, I think the halfback pairing is sorted and really can get the backline moving. The back three are also excellent. Howver as you say Bullit, the centres are dire, and tbh there's no real standout players available to come in. There are some solid Premiership players who could make the step up if tested, and this is what Johnson should do in the 6 nations. Forget Tindall for the moment, as he can always step back in for the WC if no-one else is found. Someone with a little creativity in one of the centre berths is really needed, anyone fit the bill?

 

[Teh Mite]

Clarke, Walduck, Barrett and Allen spring instantly to mind.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Dom Waldouck, Anthony Allen and Brad Barritt would be the top of my list,
Dan Hipkiss plays well in the premiership but hasn't impressed for England (though everyone played **** last autumn)
Think Barritt/Waldouck together would be quality

I really hope Attwood replaces Shaw, he's got heaps of potential. Geoff Parling is another good player, but he's out for the rest of the season,
James Gaskell could be in there in the future, I expect him to be in the Saxons come 6N, and in the main squad after Xmas, with him Lawes and Attwood the future of English locks

Backrow-wise, Croft is worth his weight in gold,
I'd like to see Robshaw, Dowson, Rees and Seymour involved at some point (think Seymour should be given a run at 7, but that won't happen while Moodys around as he's pretty much guaranteed to be captain until at least the world cup - Same with Rees)

 

[Sam Owen]

For us we got good quality sparring. Although we didnt win a game our Rugby benefacted heaps a we learnt a lot.

 

[gingergenius]

pretty much agree with bullitt on england, think hape wasn't quite that bad but still not good enough; didn't see anything from Fourie to change my mind on him either.

ireland - are in desperate need of a front row even close to international quality. There's only one player even close to that now (mike ross) and they won't pick him. still play the game at a greater speed in the backs than anyone else in the UK but lack direction in this area nonetheless, largely because of weak halfbacks. Need to find a 7 in form. Very disappointing autumn for Ireland, not least because their new stadium's atmosphere has resembled a golf course. My Ireland team would be:

Court, Varley, Ross; O'Callaghan, O'Connell; Ferris, O'Brien, Heaslip; Stringer, Sexton; Earls, D'Arcy, O'Driscoll, Bowe, Fitzgerald.

Wales - still capable of scoring tries from anywhere, have a quality front row and with the wonderful cardiff crowd will be very difficult to beat at home in the 6N. But they've forgotten how to win games, the pack isn't physical enough and they're lacking direction in the midfield - Stephen Jones had a poor autumn. clearly a disappointing month for them. my Wales team:

Jenkins, Rees, Jones; Davies, Jones; Jones, Warburton, Powell; Phillips, Jones; Williams, Roberts, Hook, Halfpenny, Byrne.

Scotland - in crap conditions at murrayfield they can beat almost anyone playing 10 man rugby. Otherwise, they're extremely limited, despite having a quality back row. they'll be pleased with the autumn. and someone needs to tell ruairidh jackson's parents that if they think they're being clever giving him a gaidhlig name, they could at least spell it properly. my team:

Jacobsen, Ford, Murray; Hines, Gray; Brown, Barclay, Beattie; Blair, Parks; Lamont, Morrison, Ansboro, Evans, Lamont

France - completely pointless autumn, especially since they didn't have a fly half and lievremont decided to leave all the toulouse guys out in the backs. are still good enough to beat anyone on their day, and bad enough to lose to anyone as well. no point picking a team, because besides the necessity of Trinh-Duc at 10, they've enough strength in depth to pick anyone in every other position and still be good.

Italy - same old. have reached a plateau where they'll stay until treviso/ aironi improve - solid pack, rubbish backs. they'll beat the likes of scotland/ wales/ fiji every now and again, but won't beat anyone good.

Argentina - can't afford to have crap refs who ruin their superb scrum, because the ideas run out after that. Need hernandez badly so contepomi can play 12. poor autumn for them, they need to revitalise if they're going to live with the 3N.

Fiji & Samoa - have shown what they are capable of with time together. Fiji really need to work on their scrum.

Australia - Have 8 outstanding backs to squeeze into 7 positions, with more coming off the conveyor belt. All that ******** from 2 years ago about their scrum being sorted out was exactly as I called it - ********. They still cannot scrummage, and suffer for it. Good autumn for them though, they've shown they're good enough to win the world cup and weak enough to be bullied out of it like last time.

New Zealand - streets ahead, say no more. Scrum creaked against the better scrums up north, don't really rate franks at all. They need to start blooding Slade/ Cruden at 10 or get nick evans back, because this might be where the rwc is lost. And what a wonderful option to be able to interchange between Nonu and SBW in the 12 jersey. Still think Weepu's the best 9 and back 3 should be Gear-Jane-Muliaina without a shadow of a doubt.

South Africa - poor autumn for them, england win or not. time for Smit to take a bow, both du Plessis have always been better players. With Brussow, du Preez and Fourie back will be a world class outfit; de Jongh should start 12.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

From a Springbok point of view I have to say that Willem Alberts has proved himself worthy of the Green and Gold while Deon Stegmann has not taken his chance. Keegan Daniel, Patrick Lambie and Adriaan Strauss haven't had that much game time, Coenie Oosthuizen and Elton Jantjies haven't had a chance at all yet.

Also Bjorn Basson was a bit of a disappointment and Mvovo was invisible against Scotland. However, he did play well against England, plus he scored a nice try as well.

Francois Hougaard is a valid option for the wing with du Preez returning from injury and Pienaar probably having a spot on the bench as a all-in-one back.

With players like Rossouw, Bekker, Brussouw, Burger, Steenkamp, de Jongh, Jaque du Preez, Fourie Fourie (****, always mix those names up), JP Pietersen and some others there is quite a bit of competition for the spots in the starting XV.

Willem Alberts has a serious chance to take the place of Burger and with Rossouw or Daniel there is an all-round player for the other positions. My preferred XV for the World Cup are these guys:

------Gurthro Steenkamp----Bismarck du Plessis---Jannie du Plessis---------
------------------Bakkies Botha-----------Victor Matfield------------------
------Willem Alberts-------------------------------Juan Smith--------------
------------------------------Pierre Spies---------------------------------
-----------------------------------Fourie du Preez-------------------------
------------------------------Morne Steyn----------------------------------
----------------------Juan de Jongh---Jaque Fourie/Jean de Villiers--------
--Bryan Habana-----------------------------------------JP Pietersen--------
-------------------------------Gio Aplon-----------------------------------


This is all based on Habana getting his old form back. Lwazi Mvovo is a good replacement for the wingers.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

The TCA - The Cymro Assessment

Gethin Jenkins - Part of the all British Lions front row. Really world class and showed this autumn internationals how he is so vital to the Welsh pack, easily the best loose head in the world.
Matthew Rees - Lead from the front but at times often drifted in and out of games, lineout function well under him, hopefully a sign of things to come.
Adam Jones - Showed his quality at tighthead and seems to be fitter each time you see him play, no longer the 30 min man now the 80 min man. Took massive responsibility when Jenkins was away, not as effective but his commitment was there.
Alun Wyn-Jones -Starting to get the form of old back, works really well with Bradley Davies. Offered good service in the lineout and showed some outstanding passion, always took Wales forward.
Bradley Davies -The lad is growing each game, really tries to be the enforcer in that boiler room. Carries well, rucks well and is a pain. Part of a world class front five. Pity the backrow at times lets the front five down.
Dan Lydiate - The boy from Gwent showed much promise throughout the AI's. Looked tired and battered against NZ. Looked good with Warburton, promising things lay ahead with these two.
Sam Warburton -The early promise from the Wales U20 Captain is starting to come. Has a superb knack of getting to the breakdown and winning the ball. Not the linkman as Martyn Williams is but offers the physicality that Williams at times does not offer Wales. Links well with Lydiate.
Ryan Jones - Seemingly the ex-Wales captain now. When he came on against South Africa it was like looking at a different man. Made a real impact during that game. Looked like he had come into some sort of form against NZ. Gatland's treatment of him was filthy but two things may have come from it. A small resurgence in form to prove Gatland wrong and was Gatland dropping him as captain making Jones find the form of 2005?
Mike Phillips -A bit of a mixed bag from the man who wants to be the next Gavin Henson. Provides a real physical aspect to the Welsh game, but sometimes his passing and distribution in general suffers because of it. His organisation at the breakdown is good but sometimes arrives so late that either the quick ball option has gone or Wales have lost the ball through a counter ruck. As current things stand he is the best option for Wales to start at 9.
Stephen Jones - Again a bit of a hit and miss AI. I don't believe he was that poor, he makes the yards, kicks the ball well from hand and is solid in defence. His goal kicking is where his game lets him down, to many times at crucial times he misses penalty kicks which are important for the Welsh momentum. Still clearly number 1 Welsh fly half. Also moved up to 7th in the leading Rugby Union test point scorers. 5 test caps away from 100 test for Wales.
Tom James - You often wondered against NZ what was he doing or was he trying hard enough. Not faulting his commitment, just seems sometimes he's not going 100% flat out when chasing a ball. Arrived late but showed some glimpses he can be an option for Wales.
James Hook - Started and failed at 15, moved to 12 and instantly was a breath of fresh air, was able to put the likes of Shanklin through the gaps and opened up the Welsh midfield.
Tom Shanklin - 70 odd caps and you just feel his time card has just come. He was the good, bad and the ugly all rolled onto one. Would make the break and do the hard work but could never finish it off. Mistakes that cost Wales against South Africa but came back superbly against NZ. Worth having in the squad for the experience.
George North - The real find of the AI, outstanding on debut but was found out experience wise against NZ.
Lee Byrne - The only real option at 15 for Wales. Gatland should give him the hair dryer treatment. I genuinely believe he is coasting for Wales and not giving his all because he knows no one is going to take his place. His tactical kicking has been poor, missed penalties to touch against NZ cost Wales two tries.

Paul James - Able scrummaging replacement for Jenkins but offers little round the park compared that to Jenkins. Did a job when called upon.
John Yapp - 9 min stint against SA, proved he is not worthy of the red shirt.
Huw Bennett - A farce that he is considered to be backup to Rees. The likes of Ken Owens, Richard Hibbard, Rhys Thomas, Mefin Davies and Gareth Williams are all better options.
Ian Gough - Not the same man as old, lacking game time.
Deiniol Jones - Come in number 2 ... your time has come ... Dog has had its day, is not the man anymore and does not merritt inclusion in the Welsh setup anymore.
Andy Powell - 'Andy ... Andy he drives the fastest golf kart in the West'. Much impact during games but often a headless chicken and an idiot ... see Richie McCaw for details. Maybe a sign he does not appear on the WRU players page for the current squad!
Martyn Williams - A different type of openside to that of Warburton. Still has the tricks. Will be needed come the 6 Nations. Looked good when called upon.
Jon Thomas - Not the man for playing 8 for Wales. I still reckon he is a secondrow / blindside option for Wales. His game is around the lineout but needs to offer more than that. His ball carrying is lateral and his tackling is often weak. Regular game time and a decision to play at either lock or blindside will be better for his game and for Wales.
Richie Rees - Showed against Fiji that he is not a starter, although the entire team was poor. Really an impact sub, and thats not a bad thing because the type of game Wales plays he is perfect for that role.
Dan Biggar - Showed touches of what he can do. Still overrated and over-hyped and makes the odd error, expect Tovey to take his place come 6 Nations time.
Andrew Bishop - A poor game against Fiji summed up Bishops AI. Been on form but lost it during the AI. I expect him to bounce back. Is a better option than Shanklin for me at 13.
Shane Williams - Showed how much Wales missed him when he went off injured and when he did not feature. Opens up spaces and the only real creative force in the back three. Hopefully he will be fit come 6 Nations.
Will Harries - A good summer test series but a poor AI. Ok not terrible but not good enough. Made one or two mistakes but should be able to bounce back. Lost out on the chance against NZ after his dire performance for the Dragons against Leinster.
Aled Brew - Not given a real chance bar Fiji, came be hard done by, by the inclusion of Tom James for the final game.
Chris Czekaj - Not given enough time at Full Back to show he can play there, always a replacement on the wing. Merits another go ... but come 6 Nations there may be others out there ready for a shot.

Did Not Feature -

Scott Andrews
Richard Hibbard
Toby Faletau
Tavis Knoyle
Jonathan Davies
Leigh Halfpenny
Tom Prydie

.... Gavin Henson :lol:

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

The TCA - The Cymro Assessment

Isn't it "The The Cymro Assessment"?


I don't see George North in there.

edit: Sorry, I missed it. Found it now haha

 

[dullonien]

That's a fair asessment there Cymro. Only one I'd disagree with is James Hook. He had a decent game against SA, but was dire in the other three. He was playing out of position in the Aus match, so I'll let him off for that, howver the Fiji and NZ games highlighted his lack of physicality and that if he can't dance his way past defenders he's unfortunately a bit useless. He missed the tackle that led to the try v Fiji and also didn't manage to bring down Sonny Bill hen he read the move well (although Shanks and North were more at fault in that try). He can also be a little selfish with the ball, takign on the defense when we should just let the ball do the work. I know he was probably a bit short of gametime coming into the AI's and I'm probably being a bit harsh, but he's classed by most (including me) as a world class player, but didn't show anything of the sorts this Autumn.

 

[mohamed_ali12]

Sadly, only Waldouck and Allen wander slowly to mind.

Fixed.

 

[Teh Mite]

Fixed.

So Clarke, Allen, Barrett and Walduck aren't better then *snigger* Hape and *chortle* HMS Banahan??????

 

[mohamed_ali12]

So Clarke, Allen, Barrett and Walduck aren't better then *snigger* Hape and *chortle* HMS Banahan??????

Waldouck and Allen probably; Clarke and Barritt probably not in my opinion.