ABs v Italy

[shtove]

Both teams have strong packs, but is that where the game will be won? Italy may get a bit bolshy out wide.

The Scotland match is Italy's passport to the 1/4 finals, but will they go at the ABs just hoping to keep the score down? And will the ABs send out a bunch of hopefuls, rather than their champion players?

This should turn out like the match against Canada during the summer - but what if the ABs get cocky?

Basic point: a full strength Italy can beat an understrength NZ.

 

[Melhor Time]

I'm not sure if you are asking for a prediction or just opening for gernal discussion.

Italy will defeat the All Blacks in the lineouts and in the scrums. New Zealand will defeat Italy everywhere else, with mauls probably split even between the two sides. If Italy can successfully kick for the corners then the score will stay done. If they kick and miss NZ will score over 50 points.

Parisse, Bortolami, Mauro Bergamasco and Castrogiovanni are all exceptional players. If they play their best rugby and Italy are able to mark up then who knows, maybe we could see an even game for the first hour. This would be a phenomenal accomplishment after Italy lost by 100 points in the 1999 World Cup and 70 in 2003. Personally, I will be surprized if NZ can win by over 40 points.

Italy don't have any wingers, just four centres who can play on the wings. I'm sure you knwo who they are. Robertson could be best if used as a fullback. Canale and Mirco Bergamasco are useful centres. They are capable players but they will leak tries if they have to tackle all day.

NZ should be by something like 46-22

Italy should defeat Scotland.

 

[TRUE LEGND]

Italy will defeat the All Blacks in the lineouts and in the scrums.
[/b]

In the line outs YES but very interesting prediction about the AB scrum prestwick :cheers:

 

[shtove]

I'm wondering about the calculations of the coaches. The easy thing for Italy is to send out a weak team and take a spanking in the hope they'll be at full strength for the 1/4 final. But if the ABs choose to preserve their stars from injury, it's ambush time.

Italy won't defeat them in the scrum, but I'm looking forward to the maul. The lineout will be a good test for Ali Williams.

Italy had a lot of backs injured for the 6N. I hope Berbizier has enough returning to make a step-change in the attack. But defence is most important - Ireland cut their midfield to pieces, and Bergamasco gave away the crucial try in the HEC semi-final. So, more steel needed there.

 

[scuubasteve]

If Italy can compete with New Zealand scrum I'll be surprised. have you watched them play over the last 18th months?

Even if New Zealand were to play their 'B' Team they would still have far to much fire power for Italy. It seems internationally that teams cling to the percieved weaknesses of the AB's as being huge deficiencies that can be exploited. The truth is that these are just areas where they don't clearly dominate.

New Zealand world cup 'B' team is still:

Tialata
Oliver
Sommerville
Williams
Jack
Thorne
Lauaki
Masoe
Leonard
Evans
Mauger
Smith
Sivivatu
Howlett
McDonald

And alot of these places are debatable as the All Blacks have so much depth its hard to pick one world cup player over another.

And the fact that players like Flavell, Weepu, Gear, Nonu, Tuitupou, Messam, Holah, Rawlinson, Filipo, Schwalger, Dermody and Cowan (I could continue for a while) are left at home playing provincial rugby proves it is simply ridiculous to consider what kind of "understrength" All Blacks team you are talking about that would lose to Italy?

I'm sorry if I appear to be personifying the cockyness of the All Blacks that you're talking about, but I really find it hard to consider how you see any of the All Blacks players as "hopefuls"??

Unless you're taking the ****, in which case forget the above rant.

 

[Ripper]

Both teams have strong packs, but is that where the game will be won? Italy may get a bit bolshy out wide.

The Scotland match is Italy's passport to the 1/4 finals, but will they go at the ABs just hoping to keep the score down? And will the ABs send out a bunch of hopefuls, rather than their champion players?

This should turn out like the match against Canada during the summer - but what if the ABs get cocky?

Basic point: a full strength Italy can beat an understrength NZ. [/b]

Basic point: Your jealously is making you look like a fool... again.

A full strength Italian team would not and cannot beat an understrength NZ team, especially with the All Blacks only operating with a 30 Man Squad. An understrength All Black team would mean the likes of Tialata, Howlett and Evans (You remember Evans, he was the one who did the most damage when we changed our entire starting team and dicked you by 40 points at Lansdowne) getting a run, the sort of players who could waltz in and be seen as the second coming if they played for Italy.

Once again you are basing too much on the 6 Nations. You would think 4 Straight Years of the All Blacks beating the Current Northern Champions by 35 points would've taught you that lesson...

 

[shtove]

A full strength Italian team would not and cannot beat an understrength NZ team, especially with the All Blacks only operating with a 30 Man Squad.[/b]

This is just the point the ABs need to prove - that the "30 man squad" is superior to the other "29 man squads" out there. On the field, it's mano a mano: McAlister v Mortlock? Question answered.

The point of the thread is to gauge predictions about how the pool matches will be managed. Will the ABs pretend it's a cruise? And will Italy go for it?

I guess Italy will opt for the spanking, Scotland will run around like disease-spreading rats, and the ABs will line out for the 1/4 final (France/Ireland/Argentina) with serious doubts.

Not much point to a cup competition if there's no hope of an upset. And I am a fool - too much time spent hoping the little guy beats the odds.

 

[Ripper]

<div class='quotemain'>A full strength Italian team would not and cannot beat an understrength NZ team, especially with the All Blacks only operating with a 30 Man Squad.[/b]

This is just the point the ABs need to prove - that the "30 man squad" is superior to the other "29 man squads" out there. On the field, it's mano a mano: McAlister v Mortlock? Question answered.

The point of the thread is to gauge predictions about how the pool matches will be managed. Will the ABs pretend it's a cruise? And will Italy go for it?

I guess Italy will opt for the spanking, Scotland will run around like disease-spreading rats, and the ABs will line out for the 1/4 final (France/Ireland/Argentina) with serious doubts.

Not much point to a cup competition if there's no hope of an upset. And I am a fool - too much time spent hoping the little guy beats the odds.

[/b][/quote]



I don't see your point - The All Black 30 Man Squad is better than the Italian 30 Man Squad. The dredges of our squad are superior to the best of the Italians. Man for Man, from 1-15 no matter what Starting XV we pick from our squad of 30 we will have the advantage in every position.



And yes, we will turn up for the quarter final team with serious doubts, playing either a team who hasn't beaten us ever in 100 Years of trying (Ireland and Argentina) or a team who haven't beaten us since 2000 and the last two times we played them at home in 2004 and 2006 we blew them off the park (the Frogs). Oh, how I wish we could be in Irelands position of only being able to beat Scotland by a single point - their confidence must be sky high after that barnstorming performance, especially with their failure to beat the French yet again.

 

[DC]

great point ripper!

 

[shanzypanzy]

allblacks are gona kane ITALY but i dont think they will put there A' Team on that will win the world cup FINAL b. it will be close to it though!

2007 RWC FINALS

SOUTH AFRICA VS ALLBLACKS

3/4 FINALS

AUSTRALIA VS FRANCE

 

[mimic]

Well, I highly doubt that McCaw won't be playing in this match. If McCaw was to miss a game, it would be against Portugal, or Romania. They'd pick near full strength teams against Scotland and Italy, as they are the strongest there is in our pool, and our only chance to work on our top combinations come finals time.

Although, even if we started with our 2nd XV, you're also forgetting we'd have 7 of our top XV waiting on the bench, ready to come on at any time.

 

[Ciais]

Well, I highly doubt that McCaw won't be playing in this match. If McCaw was to miss a game, it would be against Portugal, or Romania. They'd pick near full strength teams against Scotland and Italy, as they are the strongest there is in our pool, and our only chance to work on our top combinations come finals time.

Although, even if we started with our 2nd XV, you're also forgetting we'd have 7 of our top XV waiting on the bench, ready to come on at any time.


[/b]

You got a very good point. This pool is weak in comparison to the other ones, Italy and Scotland are not the strongest teams in the world, but surely Portugal and Romania are way behind them. If Italy plays like in the 6 nations, they can do very good things, but I think the Scots will want to play like a world champion after that defeat

 

[scrumhalf]

<div class='quotemain'> They'd pick near full strength teams against Scotland and Italy
[/b]

If Italy plays like in the 6 nations, they can do very good things
[/b][/quote]

I think Italy can do good things this time, but currently the best Italian XV cannot win even with NZ "third XV"

Italy must focus on trying to get through the quarter finals, that is, beating Scotland. A sound decision for Italy could be using the second XV against NZ, being beaten by 50+ points but saving key players from injures...

But Italy's head coach, the French Pierre Berbizier, is very fierce and combatant... thus I think he could deploy a full strenght team...

Anyway... we'll see

Ciao
Francesco

 

[Melhor Time]

shtove

In answer to your question Italy will play their first XV. Expect to see them all picked. They play Romania 4 days latter and will do so without most of their first choice XV.

 

[Ciais]

A sound decision for Italy could be using the second XV against NZ, being beaten by 50+ points but saving key players from injures...
[/b]

You're absolutely right. I think it would be no use to tire out our players in a match against an opponent like the all blacks, I remember something like that in the basketball world championship last year, we fought really hard against the USA (for nothing), consequently playing not well against the other teams, and getting eliminated

 

[carlosisgod123]

Well, I highly doubt that McCaw won't be playing in this match. If McCaw was to miss a game, it would be against Portugal, or Romania. They'd pick near full strength teams against Scotland and Italy, as they are the strongest there is in our pool, and our only chance to work on our top combinations come finals time.

Although, even if we started with our 2nd XV, you're also forgetting we'd have 7 of our top XV waiting on the bench, ready to come on at any time.
[/b]

Totally Agree - I think he has to pick his full strength team for Italy as it is the first game and they wanna strong performance, send a message out and get the combinations right for the big games later.
Play they second team (mauger, evans, thorne etc) aGAINST THE SHITE LIKE PORTUGAL

 

[dam942]

shtove

In answer to your question Italy will play their first XV. Expect to see them all picked. They play Romania 4 days latter and will do so without most of their first choice XV. [/b]

I dont'agree because vs NZ is the only match that Italy can't win

Luca

 

[danpayne]

Yes!Parisse, Bortolami, Mauro Bergamasco and Castrogiovanni are all exceptional players. >For me Robertson could be a very surprise

 

[nosferatu]

They play Romania 4 days latter and will do so without most of their first choice XV. [/b]

Oh really? Last time they did that, Romania won..
I doubt that Italy will risk a place in the quarterfinals, only to have a full strength lineup for the All Blacks to feast on.

 

[Rassie]

You can doubt your arse, Ita;y will win tho i would like The Oaks to f*** those pasta boys!