A Political Thread pt. 2

[AlRums]

How about first hand account volunteering in the migrant shelters in Chicago and speaking directly to the migrants and the main public health steward of Chicago?

That a good enough source? When I was in school, primary sourced accounts carried more weight than others. Is that still true or has UK Bluesky accounts taken the mantle?

The Texas case has no confirmed source according to the Texas DSHS. But local Mexican hospitals reported measles spiked during the migrant crisis. So again, I'm using deductive reason. Just like I did here. And if you don't trust the CDC, then there is no information that will satisfy you.

And if the CDC and first hand accounts are not good enough, then there is nothing I can do to help you. If you want to live in 2021, so be it.

Measles Outbreak – April 11, 2025 | Texas DSHS

www.dshs.texas.gov

Funny how all the reported cases are in. Northern Texas a long way from the mexican border.

 

[McTallshort]

Measles Outbreak – April 11, 2025 | Texas DSHS

www.dshs.texas.gov

Funny how all the reported cases are in. Northern Texas a long way from the mexican border.

We should ask Dave Smith and Joe Rogan. We need some proper internet experts on this. Can't trust traditional experts

 

[AlRums]

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/114336566283341937

 

[Welsh Exile]

Hey @Welsh Exile, are you spreading misinformation? Tut-tut mister. I'd hate to have the police show up at your door and give you a proper cavity search.

No, I honestly think RFK is an expert on vaccines and I'm really pleased he's been given a position of authority in Trumps administration.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Of course we don't know, my pointbisnt that we do, my point is that the lab leak, or 'secret Chinese labs' as you put it, is not a conspiracy theory in the slightest.

And that's the danger.

Of course we don't know but your point is we do know? Sorry not following you. You were speaking earlier like it's 100% certain COVID came out of some lab.

By the way, the conspiracies at the time weren't it's come out of a lab by mistake. It was it's been genetically engineered and released on purpose, among 100 other different variations.

 

[dirty harry]

https://truthsocial.com/@realDonaldTrump/114336566283341937

That's the 2nd time I've clicked on a truth social link, and I cannot figure out how that peice of **** website works hahaha

On an unrelated note, I'm predicting I'm going into the shop for beer and pizza...

 

[dirty harry]

Of course we don't know but your point is we do know? Sorry not following you. You were speaking earlier like it's 100% certain COVID came out of some lab.

By the way, the conspiracies at the time weren't it's come out of a lab by mistake. It was it's been genetically engineered and released on purpose, among 100 other different variations.

I 100% never said it was guaranteed, I was very clear that my point was that the Wuhan Lab leak was called a racist conspiracy theory, and it was proved not to be. This is a poor attempt of a strawman.

You made the claim 'secret Chinese labs' were a conspiracy, in the context that COVID theories were up there with flat earth and moon landing. That's been proved false by the evidence that the Wuhan lab is deemed the most likely outcome by governments and international bodies. You can pivot to a more extreme version of that argument if you like, but it doesn't look good.

If you want to discuss bio weaponry, that's a different story, but we both know I was talking lab leak, by my use of the words... lab leak hahaha

My point 100% stands, free speach is critical to counter bad ideas.

 

[Welsh Exile]

I 100% never said it was guaranteed, I was very clear that my point was that the Wuhan Lab leak was called a racist conspiracy theory, and it was proved not to be. This is a poor attempt of a strawman.

You made the claim 'secret Chinese labs' were a conspiracy, in the context that COVID theories were up there with flat earth and moon landing. That's been proved false by the evidence that the Wuhan lab is deemed the most likely outcome by governments and international bodies. You can pivot to a more extreme version of that argument if you like, but it doesn't look good.

If you want to discuss bio weaponry, that's a different story, but we both know I was talking lab leak, by my use of the words... lab leak hahaha

My point 100% stands, free speach is critical to counter bad ideas.

So are you honestly saying that the majority of covid conspiracy's at the time were saying there was an accidental lab leak? Really?

You were speaking very matter of factly about it until pressed and then you moved the goalposts to "I didn't say it was 100% guaranteed" but that's fine.

 

[Which Tyler]

How about first hand account volunteering in the migrant shelters in Chicago and speaking directly to the migrants and the main public health steward of Chicago?

That a good enough source? When I was in school, primary sourced accounts carried more weight than others. Is that still true or has UK Bluesky accounts taken the mantle?

The Texas case has no confirmed source according to the Texas DSHS. But local Mexican hospitals reported measles spiked during the migrant crisis. So again, I'm using deductive reason. Just like I did here. And if you don't trust the CDC, then there is no information that will satisfy you.

And if the CDC and first hand accounts are not good enough, then there is nothing I can do to help you. If you want to live in 2021, so be it.

Which part of Texas is Chicago in?
Nope, it's an anecdote, not a source. You're school was wrong - an unreliable primary source is not as reliable as a trusted actual source (given that we're talking about current events, not history)
Texas DSHS you say? The same Texas DSHS that was referenced in the CDC link I provided? The one that says

The Texas Department of State Health Services is reporting an outbreak of measles primarily in West Texas.

• At this time, 541 cases have been confirmed since late January. This is an increase of 36 since the April 8 update.
• Five percent, or fewer than 30 of the confirmed cases, are estimated to be actively infectious since their rash onset date was more than a week ago.
• Individuals are infectious four days prior to and four days after rash onset.

Fifty-six of the patients have been hospitalized. This number is the total number of people hospitalized over the course of the outbreak. It is not the current number of people in the hospital.
There have been two fatalities in school-aged children who lived in the outbreak area. The children were not vaccinated and had no known underlying conditions.
Due to the highly contagious nature of this disease, additional cases are likely to occur in the outbreak area and the surrounding communities.
Based on the most recent data, DSHS has identified designated outbreak counties with ongoing measles transmission: Cochran, Dallam, Dawson, Gaines, Garza, Lynn, Lamar, Lubbock, Terry and Yoakum.
DSHS is working with local health departments to investigate the outbreak.

Why would you think that I didn't trust the CDC? Given I linked directly to the CDC.
I'm trying to live in 2025 thanks, not 2021 - the 2025 that is currently seeing a measles outbreak in Texas - according the sources you mention, but utterly fail to provide as sources.

How's that reading comprehension going again?

 

[McTallshort]

Which part of Texas is Chicago in?
Nope, it's an anecdote, not a source. You're school was wrong - an unreliable primary source is not as reliable as a trusted actual source (given that we're talking about current events, not history)
Texas DSHS you say? The same Texas DSHS that was referenced in the CDC link I provided? The one that says

Why would you think that I didn't trust the CDC? Given I linked directly to the CDC.
I'm trying to live in 2025 thanks, not 2021 - the 2025 that is currently seeing a measles outbreak in Texas - according the sources you mention, but utterly fail to provide as sources.

How's that reading comprehension going again?

Is CDC a paid for source?

 

[ChicagoKid]

Which part of Texas is Chicago in?
Nope, it's an anecdote, not a source. You're school was wrong - an unreliable primary source is not as reliable as a trusted actual source (given that we're talking about current events, not history)
Texas DSHS you say? The same Texas DSHS that was referenced in the CDC link I provided? The one that says

Why would you think that I didn't trust the CDC? Given I linked directly to the CDC.
I'm trying to live in 2025 thanks, not 2021 - the 2025 that is currently seeing a measles outbreak in Texas - according the sources you mention, but utterly fail to provide as sources.

How's that reading comprehension going again?

Where is it coming from? Why was measles a non issue in the US until 2022?

The CDC and local health professionals here said it was unvaccinated migrants.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

This is very reductionist don't you think, I mean every atrocity in history was performed by a water drinker also!

But you do make a valuable point, your right atrocities have been committed by great speakers, and coercive people. You would imagine, then with tech increasing, the telephone, then the Internet, and social media that these atrocities would heighten in number and scale, I mean allowing people with bad ideas to speak to larger audiences would create greater genocides etc? I certainly don't think this has occurred, infact I would argue thenopposite has happened, that people with bad ideas, who look to use public forums are countered by people with better ideas.

Your also 100% I think Rogan classes himself as a conspiracy loving moron, pretty accurate and I'd say he's pretty transparent about that.

I'm trying to think of a current day conspiracy that has taken hold of the public and convinced them to cause atrocities, I'd argue there is possibly an anti isreali sentiment online that has led the UK government to ban chants promoting the genocide of Jewish people worldwide. One could argue the promotion of and attacks on Donald Trump have convinced 2 massive groups of people to believe lies and mistruths but these all come from the experts and the US government agencies, so that can't be right...

I read an article a few years ago about the suppression of bad ideas, to deep dark corners of the Web, where extremism was easily promoted, for the life of me I can't remember who wrote it, maybe former FBI. But it made valuable points about keeping extreme views visible, because when they are visible they are controllable.

I'll try to find it if I can.

I don't think anyone could reasonably claim that drinking water ever led to atrocities. It's not about finding a correlation and attempting to then attribute causation, I think we can all agree that every atrocity required some degree of communication first, often over a prolonged period of time.

This is not an argument for or against free speech, it's an argument against those who claim speech does not harm. Speech very much can cause harm and I feel the temptation to ignore all the speech that inevitably precedes atrocities or crimes is attempting to avoid the complex issue of the limits of free speech in favour of a simplistic approach of speech is good, actions bad but treating it like the 2 are not strongly linked. Jan 6th for example simply would not have happened had it not been for what Trump said.

It's less about conspiracies causing atrocities and instead the common theme, people believing lies and disinformation to the extent emotion takes over reasoning and they begin to find ways to justify horrific acts, often driven by fear or anger.

You may argue the attacks on Trump are exaggerated but, regardless of the extent of their truth, it is a fact that he is breaking a lot of norms in terms of legality, decorum, principles etc. Things like his stealing of mountains of classified documents are factual events that happened and which have not occurred under any other president. Regardless of where the line is drawn on the rhetoric surrounding it, it is still an extreme event in the history of US presidents, to give one example.

"But it made valuable points about keeping extreme views visible, because when they are visible they are controllable."

But how exactly are the controlled? It's helpful for tracking down individuals who engage in such speech but then any attempt to track or go after people for their speech, no matter how extreme, is treated like an infringement on free speech. The issue is that free speech absolutists, who very often actually aren't, seem to feel that you should be free to say whatever you want without consequence. There has never been a point in the entirety of human history in which free speech has been deemed an absolute right. Even in the fictional "good old days" of the USA free speech wasn't absolute and in fact people were regularly prosecuted or persecuted for their speech to arguably an even greater degree than now. Hell people would shoot people for saying things they disagreed with.

 

[Weldit]

The bloke is insane.

 

[McTallshort]

I don't think anyone could reasonably claim that drinking water ever led to atrocities. It's not about finding a correlation and attempting to then attribute causation, I think we can all agree that every atrocity required some degree of communication first, often over a prolonged period of time.

This is not an argument for or against free speech, it's an argument against those who claim speech does not harm. Speech very much can cause harm and I feel the temptation to ignore all the speech that inevitably precedes atrocities or crimes is attempting to avoid the complex issue of the limits of free speech in favour of a simplistic approach of speech is good, actions bad but treating it like the 2 are not strongly linked. Jan 6th for example simply would not have happened had it not been for what Trump said.

It's less about conspiracies causing atrocities and instead the common theme, people believing lies and disinformation to the extent emotion takes over reasoning and they begin to find ways to justify horrific acts, often driven by fear or anger.

You may argue the attacks on Trump are exaggerated but, regardless of the extent of their truth, it is a fact that he is breaking a lot of norms in terms of legality, decorum, principles etc. Things like his stealing of mountains of classified documents are factual events that happened and which have not occurred under any other president. Regardless of where the line is drawn on the rhetoric surrounding it, it is still an extreme event in the history of US presidents, to give one example.

"But it made valuable points about keeping extreme views visible, because when they are visible they are controllable."

But how exactly are the controlled? It's helpful for tracking down individuals who engage in such speech but then any attempt to track or go after people for their speech, no matter how extreme, is treated like an infringement on free speech. The issue is that free speech absolutists, who very often actually aren't, seem to feel that you should be free to say whatever you want without consequence. There has never been a point in the entirety of human history in which free speech has been deemed an absolute right. Even in the fictional "good old days" of the USA free speech wasn't absolute and in fact people were regularly prosecuted or persecuted for their speech to arguably an even greater degree than now. Hell people would shoot people for saying things they disagreed with.

You could get linched for sitting on the wrong bus seat

 

[Which Tyler]

Where is it coming from? Why was measles a non issue in the US until 2022?

The CDC and local health professionals here said it was unvaccinated migrants.

What's that got to with anything? Of course a disease that was eradicated locally a few years ago, but returns, returned from somewhere - that's not a point that anyone (rational), anywhere is disagreeing with.

You accused me of misinformation, because I said that there was a Measles outbreak in Texas, with approximately 550 infected.

You stated that CDC and Texas DSHS said that that was misinformation, as did your anecdote as a primary source in Chicago.
I provided sources from CDC and Texas DSHS that state that there is a Measles outbreak in Texas, with approximately 550 infected (since "late January")

 

[AlRums]

Where is it coming from? Why was measles a non issue in the US until 2022?

The CDC and local health professionals here said it was unvaccinated migrants.

I've searched high and low and have found no evidence of that claim at all.

If anything the US seems to be the source of these current outbreaks from unvaccinated people returning from foreign travel.

Here's a report from the Pan American Health Organisation which states this quite clearly (one case in Mexico is from an American child who returned not just from SE Asia but also via the US)

https://www.paho.org/sites/default/files/2025-03/2025-feb-28-phe-epialert-measles-eng-final.pdf

As a little extra I've included an interview from your neck of the woods that also says unvaccinated people are bringing them back from travel.

Why measles is resurging—and the rise of vaccine hesitancy, with Adam Ratner

Infectious disease expert examines the latest outbreaks—and the uncertain future of children’s health

news.uchicago.edu

What you can't deny, but you will, is that non vaccination has a huge part in the severity of these outbreaks.

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

i thought sources were saying it started in Mennonite communities (big shocker) and is spreading to actual society cause vaccination rates were down

 

[Saintjay]

What's that got to with anything? Of course a disease that was eradicated locally a few years ago, but returns, returned from somewhere - that's not a point that anyone (rational), anywhere is disagreeing with.

You accused me of misinformation, because I said that there was a Measles outbreak in Texas, with approximately 550 infected.

You stated that CDC and Texas DSHS said that that was misinformation, as did your anecdote as a primary source in Chicago.
I provided sources from CDC and Texas DSHS that state that there is a Measles outbreak in Texas, with approximately 550 infected (since "late January")

I wouldn't worry about it he accused me of the same.
Is there a measels outbreak - yes.
Is there an issue with 95% being vaccinated to achieve heard immunity- yes.
Was the US declared measels free in 2000 - yes
Is there an issue with people not being vaccinated- yes.

All misinformation apparently.
Despite being reported by the BBC and AP News.

 

[McTallshort]

i thought sources were saying it started in Mennonite communities (big shocker) and is spreading to actual society cause vaccination rates were down

Is Mennon in South America?

 

[Which Tyler]

I wouldn't worry about it he accused me of the same.
Is there a measels outbreak - yes.
Is there an issue with 95% being vaccinated to achieve heard immunity- yes.
Was the US declared measels free in 2000 - yes
Is there an issue with people not being vaccinated- yes.

All misinformation apparently.
Despite being reported by the BBC and AP News.

Oh, I'm not worried.
For one thing, I'm vaccinated (my parents aren't idiots); for another, I can't see myself travelling to the USA anytime soon (I'm not an idiot).

I'm just showing him how things like linking to sources, and reading comprehension work.