A Political Thread pt. 2

[McTallshort]

@dirty harry stop being such a contrarian. Everyone knows Trump is a ****. You know this deep down.

Do contrarian people tend to be narcissistic and have to always win the argument whether they are right or wrong?

 

[ncurd]

Being a contrarian the way you are isn't good. You don't believe the world is flat as well do you?

Claiming to be a contrarian on the Internet man I use to do that when incase 15-16. I grew out of it.

 

[dirty harry]

Being a contrarian the way you are isn't good. You don't believe the world is flat as well do you?

Of course not jesus... but I listen to the theorists, anyone who doesn't is a moron.

My stance is very simple at its core, society is crumbling by this stupid American political disease that has infected the west, that there is only a left or a right. British politics didn't used to be this way, but it's incredibly effective at creating 2 party systems, and enraging both sides into having to pick a team, and dying on that hill.

IMHO if you've never voted for pretty much every political party there is (depending on your locality obviously) then you are a waste of a vote!

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing you you are good or evil, based on your political opinions, everyone of us hold nuanced and complex thoughts, but everyone has been corrupted into blue team or red team.

I disagree with that, I can be financially conservative, and socially liberal and progressive, I can laugh at Greta Thunberg sailing to a climate conference to save flying carbon, while flying her crew of 4 or 5 back to where they cam from, I can lambast the powers that be for cutting down rainforest for a road to a conference about saving the rainforest, and I can advocate for a right leaning local councillor for change to the benefit system, and I can vote for a party to send a message to the government, and I can protest a party a party for absolutely setting up a UBI trial in Wales designed to fail on purpose!

I can also criticise, and lambast Trump on what he does, while defending other things he does, and benefitting financially at the same time, but all the while knowing I don't have a say in his candidacy.

I'll give you an example, in 2014 I was living in Scotland, and amazingly to my surprise I was offered a vote on independence, I disagreed that I should get that vote, and believed it should be Scots only, or UK wide. So I abstained originally, until a Scottish friend in the US couldn't manage to vote (fault of his own) so I essentially voted yes by proxy. I wouldn't want Scotland to leave the UK, and essentially knowing I wasn't staying in Scotland voted against my interest, because IMO it was the right thing to do in that situation. My voter history is also a who's who of the greatest failures lol, I've.voted Lib dem, green, labour, Tory, Plaid etc... and I always feel I'm making the best of bad choices, and I never agree fully with any politician.

And that's the crux, if you've picked a team and trust any politician with your un questioning allegiance, you are invariably wrong, and are doing damage to democracy IMO!

For Trump haters not to acknowledge any positives about Trump, and there are some undeniably, is a real concern IMO.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Of course not jesus... but I listen to the theorists, anyone who doesn't is a moron.

My stance is very simple at its core, society is crumbling by this stupid American political disease that has infected the west, that there is only a left or a right. British politics didn't used to be this way, but it's incredibly effective at creating 2 party systems, and enraging both sides into having to pick a team, and dying on that hill.

IMHO if you've never voted for pretty much every political party there is (depending on your locality obviously) then you are a waste of a vote!

The greatest trick the devil ever pulled, was convincing you you are good or evil, based on your political opinions, everyone of us hold nuanced and complex thoughts, but everyone has been corrupted into blue team or red team.

I disagree with that, I can be financially conservative, and socially liberal and progressive, I can laugh at Greta Thunberg sailing to a climate conference to save flying carbon, while flying her crew of 4 or 5 back to where they cam from, I can lambast the powers that be for cutting down rainforest for a road to a conference about saving the rainforest, and I can advocate for a right leaning local councillor for change to the benefit system, and I can vote for a party to send a message to the government, and I can protest a party a party for absolutely setting up a UBI trial in Wales designed to fail on purpose!

I can also criticise, and lambast Trump on what he does, while defending other things he does, and benefitting financially at the same time, but all the while knowing I don't have a say in his candidacy.

I'll give you an example, in 2014 I was living in Scotland, and amazingly to my surprise I was offered a vote on independence, I disagreed that I should get that vote, and believed it should be Scots only, or UK wide. So I abstained originally, until a Scottish friend in the US couldn't manage to vote (fault of his own) so I essentially voted yes by proxy. I wouldn't want Scotland to leave the UK, and essentially knowing I wasn't staying in Scotland voted against my interest, because IMO it was the right thing to do in that situation. My voter history is also a who's who of the greatest failures lol, I've.voted Lib dem, green, labour, Tory, Plaid etc... and I always feel I'm making the best of bad choices, and I never agree fully with any politician.

And that's the crux, if you've picked a team and trust any politician with your un questioning allegiance, you are invariably wrong, and are doing damage to democracy IMO!

For Trump haters not to acknowledge any positives about Trump, and there are some undeniably, is a real concern IMO.

I wouldn't waste my time listening to flat earth "theorists"

What are these undeniable positives?

 

[Weldit]

I feel like Trump, Farage, brexit etc is a result of the wealth inequality growing. People are rightfully angry, but people like the mentioned do well in that environment. It's not just because of wealth inequality, but I do think that really amplified matters. I think it's just going to get worse too sadly.

 

[dirty harry]

I'll give you an example of the team argument I'm making, depending on whether you are a pro or anti Trump cultist, I can identify almost perfectly every political opinion you hold in your head...

That's not natural, that's absolutely by design.

What are these undeniable positives?

He's T total, and sets a great example of not drinking alcohol. Granted his diet is probably trash, like most of ours.

His economic work in maintaining and building upon Obamas financial recovery was good.

He didn't escalate or introduce any global conflicts while in office, and I consider his decision not to pull out of Afghanistan despite the economic advantage of doing so like Biden did, pretty responsible, especially after seeing the aftermath. It would have been easy to see that decision in dollar signs only.

Finally, I consider operation Warp speed to have been a rapid and coherent response to a global pandemic, and it has been reported to have saved 3 million lives in US alone.

None of these things are perfect, Trump didn't single handedly do these things, but he was key in implementing them, especially retro spectively listening to Putin talk about a US power vacuum before going into Ukraine, or reports from the CDC post covid.

I'd also say he's done a decent job as a father, Baron might prove that wrong the creepy git, but there is a phenomenon of politicians and celebs being dedicated to the job so much that they neglect to raise their children morally, Mark Drakeford being a good example. This far, andnit might change the Trump kids seem pretty well adjusted considering, or maybe they've been protected from being outed lol. No banging their dead brothers wives, losing bags of coke on the whitehouse lawn etc (there's also further investigation into Don and Eric's business dealings).

I'd say those are pretty universal things most sane people could at very least give the smallest amount of credit to Trump for, even if disagreeing with the overview of the issues.

There are inevitably positives and kudos you could give to any politician, even the dreaded Adolph, the Blitzkrieg being the first off the top of my head.

 

[McTallshort]

I wouldn't waste my time listening to flat earth "theorists"

What are these undeniable positives?

He owns the Libs!

 

[dirty harry]

I feel like Trump, Farage, brexit etc is a result of the wealth inequality growing. People are rightfully angry, but people like the mentioned do well in that environment. It's not just because of wealth inequality, but I do think that really amplified matters. I think it's just going to get worse too sadly.

This is my point, reactionary politics come from suppression. Covid saw the greatest transfer in wealth from the poor to the rich the world has ever seen, more people are left adrift now than ever before, despite living standards and life expectancy growing.

If we don't have honest and nuanced conversations, and just pick a team, allow politicians we hate to be targeted rightly or wrongly, the right wing will gain momentum across Europe and it will be too big to counter and we will see atrocities again!

 

[Welsh Exile]

I'll give you an example of the team argument I'm making, depending on whether you are a pro or anti Trump cultist, I can identify almost perfectly every political opinion you hold in your head...

That's not natural, that's absolutely by design.

He's T total, and sets a great example of not drinking alcohol. Granted his diet is probably trash, like most of ours.

His economic work in maintaining and building upon Obamas financial recovery was good.

He didn't escalate or introduce any global conflicts while in office, and I consider his decision not to pull out of Afghanistan despite the economic advantage of doing so like Biden did, pretty responsible, especially after seeing the aftermath. It would have been easy to see that decision in dollar signs only.

Finally, I consider operation Warp speed to have been a rapid and coherent response to a global pandemic, and it has been reported to have saved 3 million lives in US alone.

None of these things are perfect, Trump didn't single handedly do these things, but he was key in implementing them, especially retro spectively listening to Putin talk about a US power vacuum before going into Ukraine, or reports from the CDC post covid.

I'd also say he's done a decent job as a father, Baron might prove that wrong the creepy git, but there is a phenomenon of politicians and celebs being dedicated to the job so much that they neglect to raise their children morally, Mark Drakeford being a good example. This far, andnit might change the Trump kids seem pretty well adjusted considering, or maybe they've been protected from being outed lol. No banging their dead brothers wives, losing bags of coke on the whitehouse lawn etc (there's also further investigation into Don and Eric's business dealings).

I'd say those are pretty universal things most sane people could at very least give the smallest amount of credit to Trump for, even if disagreeing with the overview of the issues.

There are inevitably positives and kudos you could give to any politician, even the dreaded Adolph, the Blitzkrieg being the first off the top of my head.

Is that all you got? ******* lol. You lead with "he's T total with a **** diet" **** me. I stopped reading after that to be honest. Got anything else, you know, good stuff that outweighs what a sub human piece of **** he is?

What are all my political views then?

 

[dirty harry]

He owns the Libs!

You keep typing that phrase, I'm assuming it's an Internet culture thing.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Also lol at the good parent who wants to **** his daughter.

 

[dirty harry]

Is that all you got? ******* lol. You lead with "he's T total with a **** diet" **** me. I stopped reading after that to be honest. Got anything else, you know, good stuff that outweighs what a sub human piece of **** he is?

What are all my political views then?

Wait, why would you acknowledge you stopped reading, then ask for more lol.

As you well know, I am not a Trump fan, he's an absolutely bad thing for the planet being the leader of the free world. You asked for positives, I gave you a very few off my head, now either you agree that he played a part in them, or you disagree that there has been a single positive to him being president. I don't believe you are that intellectually dishonest!

My very first post on this politics thread, was that I was reluctant to discuss Trump, because rational conversation isn't possible, and the 99% on this thread are alsadly proving that. I can dislike Trump, while also acknowledging things like Operation Warp speed, the same way I can dislike pretty much every western politician but acknowledge their accomplishments. This is why I am both a Nazi and communist sympathiser depending on who I speak to, and that's fine. My point is simple, critical thought dictates there are complexities and nuance to every situation, to deny that is dishonest or ignorant. You just have to decide which of those reason yo pick when making claims like Trump has never done anything good in his life, because that's an untrue statement, it cannot possibly be true!

But let's get rid of Trump in this discussion, let's use Kier Starmer, Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch or Jeremy Corbyn? Remove the emotional response of Trump.

I can criticise and advocate for actions from all 4 of these people, because it will be based in fact, and evidence, not in emotions (for the record I dislike all 4, well kind of, I have a real soft spot for Corbyn).

 

[Yulia]

Also lol at the good parent who wants to **** his daughter

...what?...

 

[Welsh Exile]

...what?...

He famously said if his daughter wasn't his daughter he would be ******* her silly. Then on top of that you have lots of very weird photos of him touching her inappropriately that no dad would touch their daughter in that way. He is just an extremely weird, bad individual. Hilarious that Harry would say he's a good parent when he is a despicable human being. How is that being a good parent. You're failing at the most important thing, not being a *****

 

[dirty harry]

...what?...

To be fair while complimenting his beautifull daughter, and she is hot, he did say he would date her:

"If Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

It's not as bad as people make it, but creepy enough that I would never say it about my daughters lol

 

[Welsh Exile]

Wait, why would you acknowledge you stopped reading, then ask for more lol.

As you well know, I am not a Trump fan, he's an absolutely bad thing for the planet being the leader of the free world. You asked for positives, I gave you a very few off my head, now either you agree that he played a part in them, or you disagree that there has been a single positive to him being president. I don't believe you are that intellectually dishonest!

My very first post on this politics thread, was that I was reluctant to discuss Trump, because rational conversation isn't possible, and the 99% on this thread are alsadly proving that. I can dislike Trump, while also acknowledging things like Operation Warp speed, the same way I can dislike pretty much every western politician but acknowledge their accomplishments. This is why I am both a Nazi and communist sympathiser depending on who I speak to, and that's fine. My point is simple, critical thought dictates there are complexities and nuance to every situation, to deny that is dishonest or ignorant. You just have to decide which of those reason yo pick when making claims like Trump has never done anything good in his life, because that's an untrue statement, it cannot possibly be true!

But let's get rid of Trump in this discussion, let's use Kier Starmer, Nigel Farage, Kemi Badenoch or Jeremy Corbyn? Remove the emotional response of Trump.

I can criticise and advocate for actions from all 4 of these people, because it will be based in fact, and evidence, not in emotions (for the record I dislike all 4, well kind of, I have a real soft spot for Corbyn).

This is why being a contrarian the way you are is so pathetic. Sorry mate. Saying hey look, I know Trump is a super bad thing for the planet and it's not good he's leader of the free world but mate, did you know he doesn't drink alcohol. It's pointless mate. It would be like me saying, I made my wife breakfast in bed this morning and then went out and shot 3 people. Might as well just leave out the breakfast in bed bit bud.

 

[Yulia]

To be fair while complimenting his beautifull daughter, and she is hot, he did say he would date her:

"If Ivanka weren't my daughter, perhaps I'd be dating her."

It's not as bad as people make it, but creepy enough that I would never say it about my daughters lol

She's hot I agree,but to say something like that..

 

[dirty harry]

This is why being a contrarian the way you are is so pathetic. Sorry mate. Saying hey look, I know Trump is a super bad thing for the planet and it's not good he's leader of the free world but mate, did you know he doesn't drink alcohol. It's pointless mate. It would be like me saying, I made my wife breakfast in bed this morning and then went out and shot 3 people. Might as well just leave out the breakfast in bed bit bud.

But in your own analogy, this is a discussion in which someone makes the claim, you never made breakfast in bed for your wife, before shooting 3 people. It is 100% a false claim then, and needs to be addressed.

You shooting 3 people would be bad, but it very much must be said you made breakfast for your wife.

I get what your saying, in the context of a Trump presidency, that you believe is absolutely evil, that discussing facts about achievements of that pure evil isn't relevant.

My point is, truth and honesty is always relevant, and the fact you have picked a team, being anti Trump regardless of what he does, and refusing to acknowledge his achievements, is the exact same cult like behaviour MAGA supporters show when they blindly defend him. Both of you are ignoring complexities and nuance, and both of you are trying to win, instead of seek the betterment of mankind.

Serious question, if Trump manages to negotiate with Netinyahu and Putin to stop both actions of aggression, both come to the table for peace talks and both credit Trump as the catalyst for peace, including Zelensky and Hamas / Palestinian leaders, how would you manipulate that as Trump bad?!

 

[Welsh Exile]

But in your own analogy, this is a discussion in which someone makes the claim, you never made breakfast in bed for your wife, before shooting 3 people. It is 100% a false claim then, and needs to be addressed.

You shooting 3 people would be bad, but it very much must be said you made breakfast for your wife.

I get what your saying, in the context of a Trump presidency, that you believe is absolutely evil, that discussing facts about achievements of that pure evil isn't relevant.

My point is, truth and honesty is always relevant, and the fact you have picked a team, being anti Trump regardless of what he does, and refusing to acknowledge his achievements, is the exact same cult like behaviour MAGA supporters show when they blindly defend him. Both of you are ignoring complexities and nuance, and both of you are trying to win, instead of seek the betterment of mankind.

Serious question, if Trump manages to negotiate with Netinyahu and Putin to stop both actions of aggression, both come to the table for peace talks and both credit Trump as the catalyst for peace, including Zelensky and Hamas / Palestinian leaders, how would you manipulate that as Trump bad?!

Did you know Hitler liked dogs? I don't think enough of that is taught in schools to be honest.

 

[dirty harry]

She's hot I agree,but to say something like that..

I agree with you, it's very odd. I distrust the miles Taylor claims he was talking about ******* Ivanka, an outgoing disgruntled stagger who writes a book calling Trump a fascist, not that I'm saying he's wrong, I'm just a cynic by trade. But if even half of it is true, and I've seen the View video, Trump is one creepy git!