A Political Thread pt. 2

[AlRums]

He did not "steal" top secret files. He was the president, he could and did declassify them, making them not secret any longer. The most he did was violate an administrative policy relating to presidential records. Bit different than Biden who legitimately stole top secret files which he stored in an unsecured garage. He had no right to possess those files and zero ability to declassify them when he took them.

What criminal charges has he ever been charged with before? Based on common sense standards the New York trial was a sham. No one had EVER been charged with the same thing and there was no victim. I'd be curious how many other companies have overvalued a property or business valuation to their advantage? Also don't you find it odd that Leticia James was a visitor to the White House leading up to this case and that a Biden White House lawyer left that prestigious post to go work for a local DA's office when he previous bosses political opponent is the defendant? Again, none of this adds up.

MSN

This shows our level of free speech and expression is FAR greater than yours, your country has elevated itself to policing and criminalizing thoughts. As do the German police raids for memes and insults that those prosecutors were so proud of on CBS. Europe likes to talk about freedom and democracy but show that they are much closer to authoritarianism than they admit.

What a load of rubbish.

He stole files, showed to journalists and foreign businessmen.

He didn't declassify then since there was no record anywhere that he had done so. He only claimed that he declassified them after he was caught with them, and after leaving them accessible by the public, storing on a ballroom stage and in a bathroom. He than tried to keep them hidden by telling national archives he didn't have them.

As regards Biden, he and Pence both found documents they shouldn't have had, but they were honest enough to report and admit they had them. Something trump singularly failed to do.

It doesn't matter if noone else has been prosecuted for the fraud, there always has to be a first and doesn't even remotely make him innocent. Btw the banks are defrauded if they lend money at a lower rate because the valuations are too high making him "a better risk".

The valuation was made by Palm Beach County, not the judge, Trump agreed with it in 2020.

You seem too forget trumps valuation is pie in the sky. Any buyer can only buy a golfa club. Trump signed away all rights to development, and agreed to a club only in perpetuity. Technically and legally he can only live there because he is an "employee". Any buyer would have to abide by the same.

As to freedom of speech how many pro Palestinians have been arrested for exercising their free sped h. Everything we hear is any speech against Israel is anti Semitics. Israel has even accused Ireland and South Africa of this in for supporting court cases against them. That's suppression of speech. You have no more freedom of speech than we do, in fact currently I would say you have less.

Didn't trump punish AP for exercising their free speech about the Gulf of Mexico?

Or how about this, is this not a freedom of speech issues

Report: Jewish Tesla owner 'speechless' after Jewish Musk-hater finger-traces swastika on his Cybertruck

A Jewish man was "speechless" after reportedly seeing an Elon Musk protester draw a swastika on his Cybertruck in NYC. The incident comes amid a wave of anti-DOGE protests in the U.S.

www.foxnews.com

 

[AlRums]

Because Biden was the vice-president when he took them and had no authority to classify or de-classify anything when he took them. The president however, does have that authority and when Trump took those papers, he was the president.

But he could have declassified them in 2021, he didn't and was a man enough he had them, so was Pence when he was in a similar position.

Remember, the difference they reported them, trump tried to hide them.

 

[AlRums]

So they justify fear of an authoritarian regime by going after free speech? Seems backwards and simply a justification for suppressing ideas that they don't like

No it's to stop idiots running their mouths off with lies that lead to violence.

Prime example, naming the fella that killed those kids at a party, was then named and wrongly stated to be an Islamist, immigrant terrorist, totally wrong born and bred Welsh.

This led to multiple riots, supposed immigrants getting beaten up, hostel and hotels burned. Lynch mobs were on the street all for the sake of a lie.

 

[AlRums]

Trump's organization was not found guilty of fraud for the Trump university, they were sued civilly and settled the case big difference.

Most of these things you have mentioned are administrative records act issues. Not federal criminal issues.
When it comes to American law we operate on "innocent until proven guilty" and things like there were no witnesses to support his claim are irrelevant. He does not have to prove there were any witnesses or records. As far as the FBI agents not being given access to them or needing the SCIF, the government claimed that they were classified, if that was true as they alleged then the agents would need the proper clearances, they can't have it both ways.

The reality was that the whole case was a witch hunt to go after a political opponent just like the other ones were. Biden did the same thing except he wasn't president and wasn't charged, he should have been. He wasn't president when he took them so he can't even claim the whole declassification argument. His was just a straight up crime.

For you, as I have seen, when it comes to anything related to Trump you have your mind made up far before any explanations. The same with your position on the J6 hearings, so many issues there but Orange Man Bad!!

Trump Organization hit with maximum fine over years-long tax fraud

Former president’s business empire fined $1.6m after being convicted last month on 17 charges including falsifying records

www.theguardian.com

 

[ChicagoKid]

can i just circle back to this...youre proud that hate speech is protected?....you're proud that people can openly hate on each other? and for it to be hate speech we're talking truly terrible things...ok

my personal struggle with several American issues is the idea of "rights" and "principles" outweighing actual real world problems, its more important to have the right to bear arms than the lives lost due to the resulting abundance of guns, the right to free speech is more important than the hate and division it causes....and a president that claims to value those rights above all is lauded despite being a convicted criminal and serial racists and sex offender

for a long time its come across as this real victim mentality, so many americans think everyone is out to get them and so grasp these rights like theyre the only thing they have, its the same with the immigrants are stealing my job or the russians are going to attack us via greenland and we cant trust anyone to help us

famiously trump claims to be good mates with putin so why is greenland such a security issues? it reminds me of this from an aussie tv show

Yes. Uncategorically yes.

And of course rights are more important than lives. Because without rights every society devolves into some form of totalitarianism. And then while you might still be living, you are a slave in one form or another. I'd rather be dead than be a slave.

For example, the things your government did during COVID would have led to a mass civil uprising here. But yall did very little.

However, there is a reason we are the richest, most powerful society in human history. There is a reason we are the world's longest running democracy. There is a reason why we were have strong ties to Israel while anti-semitism is running rampant in the UK and thousands of Jews are flocking here.

Do you think that's because our founders and principals were misguided? Or maybe they understood something you didn't.

 

[Saintjay]

I have signed stuff by Tommy Freeman and Fin Smith.

If they signed it with an auto-pen. I'm going to be p!ssed. Like storming Franklins Gardens on the 6th Jan in a Tigers shirt level p!ssed.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yes. Uncategorically yes.

And of course rights are more important than lives. Because without rights every society devolves into some form of totalitarianism. And then while you might still be living, you are a slave in one form or another. I'd rather be dead than be a slave.

For example, the things your government did during COVID would have led to a mass civil uprising here. But yall did very little.

However, there is a reason we are the richest, most powerful society in human history. There is a reason we are the world's longest running democracy. There is a reason why we were have strong ties to Israel while anti-semitism is running rampant in the UK and thousands of Jews are flocking here.

Do you think that's because our founders and principals were misguided? Or maybe they understood something you didn't.

Britain has been a democracy longer than the USA has existed... Bloody hell care to spread any more crap?

 

[ncurd]

Britain has been a democracy longer than the USA has existed... Bloody hell care to spread any more crap?

They use some pretty big caveats to claim this.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Britain has been a democracy longer than the USA has existed... Bloody hell care to spread any more crap?

Wrong again: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2019/08/countries-are-the-worlds-oldest-democracies/

Arguing with you is fun because it's like playing with a younger brother: I always win and you just cry.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Yes. Uncategorically yes.

And of course rights are more important than lives. Because without rights every society devolves into some form of totalitarianism. And then while you might still be living, you are a slave in one form or another. I'd rather be dead than be a slave.

For example, the things your government did during COVID would have led to a mass civil uprising here. But yall did very little.

However, there is a reason we are the richest, most powerful society in human history. There is a reason we are the world's longest running democracy. There is a reason why we were have strong ties to Israel while anti-semitism is running rampant in the UK and thousands of Jews are flocking here.

Do you think that's because our founders and principals were misguided? Or maybe they understood something you didn't.

yeah, i very much disagree with the idea of putting principles with the fear of what might happen down the track ahead of actual pain/suffering/death right now, especially when those right are as trivial as speech or guns, to each their own

 

[ChicagoKid]

They use some pretty big caveats to claim this.

The World Economic Forum — your little left wing forum — says we are number 1.

Meanwhile @Ragey Erasmus is raging.

 

[ChicagoKid]

yeah, i very much disagree with the idea of putting principles with the fear of what might happen down the track ahead of actual pain/suffering/death right now, especially when those right are as trivial as speech or guns, to each their own

Great. Stay in NZ. Dont go to Australia either because they are closer to us than your island.

 

[Saintjay]

Yes. Uncategorically yes.

And of course rights are more important than lives. Because without rights every society devolves into some form of totalitarianism. And then while you might still be living, you are a slave in one form or another. I'd rather be dead than be a slave.

For example, the things your government did during COVID would have led to a mass civil uprising here. But yall did very little.

However, there is a reason we are the richest, most powerful society in human history. There is a reason we are the world's longest running democracy. There is a reason why we were have strong ties to Israel while anti-semitism is running rampant in the UK and thousands of Jews are flocking here.

Do you think that's because our founders and principals were misguided? Or maybe they understood something you didn't.

Richest by GDP and modern standards you might be behind the British Empire and Romans. I'd need to double check. Yep India and China were also richer at one time. No doubt you are now but in history not even close.

Didn't your founding fathers use the basis and principles of the Magna Carta for your constitution and bill of rights?

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Wrong again: https://www.weforum.org/stories/2019/08/countries-are-the-worlds-oldest-democracies/

Arguing with you is fun because it's like playing with a younger brother: I always win and you just cry.

Ah yes since 1800's, remind us how the slaves voted back then. What you actually are is the pigeon on the chessboard. As usual, Trumper chest beater and little more.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

Great. Stay in NZ. Dont go to Australia either because they are closer to us than your island.

lived in aussie for a long time, actually an aussie citizen and no, general consensus is America is becoming a dumpster fire, but its what people want so more power to you.

I think something that would be good for more americans to remember when looking at the rest of the world, the aussie right wing party would still be left of the democrats, so when people talk about the rest of the world moving right....we're still miles from the republicans

 

[ChicagoKid]

Ah yes since 1800's, remind us how the slaves voted back then. What you actually are is the pigeon on the chessboard. As usual, Trumper chest beater and little more.

You were wrong. Just admit it.

Be a man.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

You were wrong. Just admit it.

Be a man.

Come on, tell us how the slaves voted in the 1800s. I know your type love to pretend slavery never happened but go on, tell us exactly how they voted.

 

[ncurd]

The World Economic Forum — your little left wing forum — says we are number 1.

Meanwhile @Ragey Erasmus is raging.

World Economic Forum funded by 1000 multi national companies left wing?

Davos? Left Wing?

**** me that's stupid.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Come on, tell us how the slaves voted in the 1800s. I know your type love to pretend slavery never happened but go on, tell us exactly how they voted.

okay. You're blocked. We have multiple black family members and my nieces are black/white. You can accuse me of a lot of things but insinuating I'm a racist is so absurd it's not worth my time to continue this.

Hey @Sour Patch Kid, this guy has some of the worst TDS I have ever seen.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

okay. You're blocked. We have multiple black family members and my nieces are black/white. You can accuse me of a lot of things but insinuating I'm a racist is so absurd it's not worth my time to continue this.

Hey @Sour Patch Kid, this guy has some of the worst TDS I have ever seen.

Nowhere did I say you're a racist so funny you jump to that assumption, just like nowhere did I say foreigners have the same rights as native citizens. It was everything to do with the ability to vote but you do you if you want to jump to claims of racism. It fits your ******* victim complex and a complete inability to deal with the arguments being put to you.

Slaves and black people could not vote for a long time in the USA, this is a simple fact. As with all far right fuckwits, rather than address the issue, you run away like the cowards you are.