Just more pointless posturing that will achieve nothing except waste more money and fail to attract the Reform voters they desperately covet
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A Political Thread pt. 2
- Thread starter ncurd
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I think with most small boats crossing actually doing anything to physically stop crossing is a waste of time.
The only thing that appears constructive is Starmer/Macron deal is to swap those crossing by boat with someone who didn't.
I'm unsure the impact that will have the criminal gangs lie to vulnerable people.
Lewis Goodall did an excellent episode on the newagents on it I'm trying to hunt it down but google fuu failing
AHa!
It's such a stupidly low proportion of overall immigration it doesn't warrant anything like this coverage. But as usual, Farage stands in Dover and yells "LOOK OUT THERE'S BROWN PEOPLE" and everyone falls over themselves
Yeah but having unchecked migrants coming into the country is to be absolutely avoided plus the fact it's a massive earner for criminal gangs. It is a problem and needs to be dealt with.
It's 20000 thousand people that have to be housed this year so far. Around 1000 last week. When local authorities can't find homes for the homeless and vulnerable, funding being cut. If makes a massive difference.
We've all just been moaning about there not being enough homes and demand out stripping supply.
If the estimated costs are running into the billions. Surely tackling the issue is a better way for Reeves to save money than take away people's pip.
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Its not a zero sum game but ultimately its a small fry to overall finances of the country (where did the billions come from?)
And I only had to listen to one of my sister in laws to talk about it for 5 mins to know its absolutely a racism thing for most people. (God my in-laws give me such a depressing insight at times)
Agreed, the Iranian terror cell that were arrested last month came across on small boats
Do agree that it gets a disproportionate amount of headlines/column inches compared to any other type of illegal immigration (i.e. overstaying visas) but it's still a serious issue that needs tackling
Bbc verify - July 2025
The Home Office's annual accounts, external show £2.1bn was spent on hotel accommodation - an average of about £5.77m per day, down from £3bn or £8.3m per day, the previous year.
I'd guess you would also need to factor in the amounts of money paid to France etc as well.
It might well be small fry to the overall savings for the country. How ever it's still more than the government saved from the proposed axing of winter fuel allowance for example.
I'm wary of branding people racist if they have concerns and genuine worries. It stops the discussion and doesn't benefit anyone.
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M8 it's the WHITE cliffs of Dover innit? Not the brown cliffs.
odw26
Academy Player
To instantly label most people as racist after a 5-minute conversation with one person honestly just shows a lack of willingness on your part to engage in what is undoubtedly a very uncomfortable and difficult topic with anyone who shares a different view to the one you champion. I have no idea what your sister in law said, I can't comment on that, she may well have said some abhorrent things. But you're coming across as having a very black and white perspective on what is in reality a very nuanced debate.
@Saintjay is right, instantly calling people a racist because they view things differently to you is not going to lead to any constructive rhetoric and will only deepen divisions. Labelling people "racist" has lost a lot of meaning over the past decade or so. Being labelled a "racist" should hold an insufferable amount of weight- the act of racism is incomprehensible and unjustifiable and should rightly be called out. To label large groups of people under that banner without understanding what they're saying, why they're saying it, or what their perspective is, only further dilutes that term, however, and it no longer holds that weight. Being banded around as it is- as you have done- actually only lessens the very act as lowering the threshold makes genuine cases of racism seem less extreme and almost normalised in today's society.
If someone repeatedly says racist **** round me like my in laws do I'm happy to call them racist.
I'm glad you call it out racism is abhorrent.
I still don't think saying it's a racism thing for 'most people' when discussing immigration helps those with genuine concerns and worries. It stops the conversation and has wider implications because people fail to speak up on other things for fear of being called a racist
My mother in law wished one of her daughters dead at the funeral of her step daughter. A step daughter whom she beat and then bemoaned she wasnt left anything in the will (its been less than 7 months). She's also complaining about having to see my father-in-laws deceased wife name on a gravestone (she's been dead for 47 years).
These are not nice people at all.
These people make Harry look like a font of wisdom.
Look I'm quite happy for a nuanced discussion with people here I appreciate fair concerns. Saintjay does this ALOT
But guys dont pretend there isn't a very nasty underbelly to all this and you only have to see the rioting last Summer to know its a not a small minority of the group concerned about this.
These are not nice people at all.
You know what I do round them? Shut my gob and avoid seeing them at all costs they can't be reasoned with. They'll belive any old **** they read if it conforms to their world view even if its easially disproved. Any attempt of mildly confronting these views just leads to "well its what I read".
These people make Harry look like a font of wisdom.
Look I'm quite happy for a nuanced discussion with people here I appreciate fair concerns. Saintjay does this ALOT
But guys dont pretend there isn't a very nasty underbelly to all this and you only have to see the rioting last Summer to know its a not a small minority of the group concerned about this.
Isn't there a risk here that ignoring the boats and pretending it's a racism issue just going to back fire massively like the US/Mexico border issue did?
Yes which is why I approve of the Macron/Starmer talks and initiatives. I think there are positive steps to take, processing in Calais being another.
Its the tough on crime that appeases to a base that has no real impact I object to.
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I find Xenophobic or bigoted tend to be more apt words to describe a lot of people rather than racist in these instances.
I get that, and I'm under no illusions about some people's motives.
My concern stems into how it spills into other things. For example in the Jay report you had professional people in the police, local authorities and social services all more concerned about being perceived as 'racist' rather than raising concerns.
Which unfortunately also feeds the narrative of the some of the people you mention.
I'll stop trying to do this ALOT now
odw26
Academy Player
As I said, I have no idea about what your sister in law said or about them as people. You clearly have a deep understanding of them, and you choose to remove them from your life as much as possible, that's not what I have an issue with. My problem is with labelling most people as racist simply for being anti-immigration and how diluted you're making the term "racist".
These are the latest YouGov trackers:
Do Brits think that immigration has been too high or low in the last 10 years?
Generally speaking, do you think the level of immigration into Britain over the last ten years has been too high, too low or about right?
73% of respondents said that immigration has been too high over the past ten years.
Has immigration in the past 10 years been good for Britain?
Do you think the level of immigration into Britain over the last ten years has been good or bad for the country?
49% of people said that immigration has been mostly bad for the country.
By your own admission, you're now labelling most people in this country as being racist or holding racist ideology. I'm not going to speak for everyone, but it would be pointless to sit here and claim that no one who is anti-immigration has ill-intentions and that there are no genuine racists amongst those numbers.
However, what it does do, is shift the perception around the claim, which is damaging. To use a personal example, I've seen many AI created videos on TikTok that are clearly incredibly racist and involve different ethnicities acting out harmful stereotypes. These videos have hundreds of thousands of views/likes, and some of the most liked comments under them are "Like this comment if you are racist". I hope you can understand the clear correlation between diluting the term and how it is shifting society's views to make acts like those listed above normalised and mainstream. People are clearly happy to be labelled as a "racist" because they no longer hold an understanding of what that term actually means. It is also leading us to a place where we can no longer have much-needed conversations about these types of topics because of reactions like that.
Oh yeah the Jay report is absolutely correct ins its findings. You see all the time with sensible minded people.I get that, and I'm under no illusions about some people's motives.
My concern stems into how it spills into other things. For example in the Jay report you had professional people in the police, local authorities and social services all more concerned about being perceived as 'racist' rather than raising concerns.
Which unfortunately also feeds the narrative of the some of the people you mention.
I'll stop trying to do this ALOT now
I remember way back now when I was doing volunteer training for the Olympics and in a emergency they showed us a group of people. And one guy a tall black person was wearing a volunteer uniform and he was visually distinctive because of that (the rest being medium sized white people). Out of 40 people do you know how many were happy in a emergency to direct a person to the "tall black man" as opposed to some other unclear nonsense? 3 (myself included although I must admit to being on the fence and went with my gut the other options were just too vague).
Wait people post racist ****, they admit to being racist and your accusing people for allowing it of "dilution" of term? Sorry the logic doesn't follow. What happened is Brexit, Trump and other things have enabled racists to show their true colours more publically. Don't blame people calling out racism as "diluting it" and there fore making it acceptable.
Nope people during the 90's and 00's got told to stop and they wouldn't do it publically anymore then in 2016 anyone could see a public mentality shift.
To your status 51% of voting people thought Brexit was a good idea. There are significant proportion of stupid people out there. Always remember 50% of the population is of below average intelligence. Also when I say most Im reffering to those who have concerns over the topic at hand, small boats crossings. Not immigration in general. Event the 51% of 73% of adults is 37.3% of all adults.
I've worked working class jobs, I've worked middle class jobs. I've heard otherwise fairly intelligent people refer to people as Chinks and other racially charged terms. I think casual racism as well as outright racism is a lot higher in this country than many would like to admit and that 37% figure is probably not that far out. You only have to see Reforms polling figures and other less palatable far right parties before that.
Last year 49.8% of voting Americans or 32% decided they rather vote for an openly racist and likely sex offender over a black woman who is about as left wing as Kier Starmer.
But that's not what this about is it? Its fact I suggested someone with your views on immigration might be racist. And you didnt like being tarred with brush of those people did you? Despite the fact I'm assuming your not racist. So much for dillution.
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