• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

7 Years to get up to scratch

Feicarsinn

Super Αdmin
TRF Legend
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
8,310
Country Flag
Ireland
Club or Nation
Leinster
FeicsBlogs.png


Cast your mind back a few weeks to the Junior World Cup. It was certainly an interesting tournament. Wales beat New Zealand, inflicting a first ever defeat at this level on the Baby All Blacks. The hosts were beaten in the first game by the Irish, only to bounce back superbly to win the tournament outright only two weeks later. Indeed, it was a much needed shakeup for top tier rugby at this age group.

While all of that was going on, the much less glamorous and publicised IRB Junior World Trophy was also getting underway. The final saw the hosts, the US, go head to head with Japan in a smashing contest. A Noah Tarrant try in the last 10 minutes gave the Americans a narrow 37-33 victory, a fitting end to a fine competition. No doubt the US will be ecstatic that they now get the opportunity to compete with the big guns in the JWC next year, but one gets the feeling that the IRB will be mildly disappointed that Japan managed to fall at the final hurdle for the third year in a row.

It's common knowledge that in 7 years Japan will be hosting the first ever senior World Cup to be held outside of one of the traditional rugby powerhouses. The decision to award the competition to Japan was something of a gamble on the part of the game's governing body, considering that the Japanese national side had yet to register a win at World Cup when the call was made. It no doubt would have been of some reassurance to the IRB to see Japan win, meaning it would be them competing against the World's best next year, a real sign that rugby is heading in the right direction in east Asia. This latest failure, coupled with the drubbing the under 20's suffered at the hands of the Welsh earlier in the year (119-7) will have the game's officials concerned as to whether this generation of Japanese players will manage to be competitive come 2019.

So, how goes the preparation for the World Cup? I'd rather not concern myself with off field issues such as stadia and capacities and concentrate more on the on field performances of the national team as they gear up for the biggest event the sport has to offer.

Firstly, let's take a look at the performances of the senior team this year. As per usual Japan competed in the Asian 5 Nations and the Pacific Nations Cup, and this year they welcomed the French Barbarians for a two match tour. The Asian 5 Nations saw Japan record their 5th clean sweep in as many years, although considering the level of opposition that feat is neither all that impressive nor indicative of where they stand as a rugby power. The PNC was a much tougher test for Japan, seeing them fail to win a single match for the first time since the introduction of the competition in 2007. That said, Japan were extremely competitive in all three games, obtaining a losing bonus point in each and coming within a single point of champions Samoa. This represents the continuation of Japan's competitiveness in this tournament, having won 4 out of 6 games in the two years previous. Perhaps we should cut the some slack, considering that this is Eddie Jones' first year in charge of the team. The French Barbarians posed a tougher test again. Featuring French internationals such as Guillaume Boussés, William Servat, Romain Millo-Chluski and Ibrahim Diarra, the Barbarian side swept to two comprehensive victories, 40-21 in the first test and 51-18 in the second. On a positive note, the Brave Blossoms fielded relatively young sides in both tests, with the average age of the XXII in the second test being just 24, with an average of 17 tests per player. No doubt the experience will do these players a world of good.

From the perspective of getting Japan competitive these sort of tours are vital. Unfortunately, only Wales (2013), Scotland (2016) and Ireland (2017) are scheduled to visit before the World Cup and with two of tours taking place during years in which the Lions are also touring, it would seem that Japan will be getting fewer chances to test themselves against top tier nations than would be preferable. On the other hand, 2013 will see the expansion of the PNC to feature Canada and the United States, guaranteeing Japan two more games a year against decent opposition.

With the senior team out of the way, let's turn our attention to the under 20's. As stated earlier, this year's JWT saw Japan get to their third final in a row, losing once more. In previous years they were somewhat unlucky, coming up against Italy and Samoa, but this year they really should have gotten themselves promoted if they harbour serious ambitions about competing with the tier 1 nations. This means another year of playing the likes of Zimbabwe and Canada as opposed to South Africa and New Zealand. The under 20's also took part in a four game tour Britain earlier in the year, playing Wales, Bridgend College, the Welsh Academicals and an Irish Exiles side. The tour resulted in three losses, with the only win coming against the exiles side. Despite this, Gareth Nicholas who coached both the Bridgend and Academicals sides was full of praise of the young Japanese side following the final game of the tour:

"The standard of play was much better than I expected and a vast improvement from the first game they played."

Eddie Jones also had something to say of the tour, although his comments concerning the Welsh game were less positive:

"It just reinforces that we need to change the way things are done here. We need to improve the fitness of the young players so it of a world class standard, and we need to improve the way they are coached"

Jones makes a good point here. The Japanese side was composed solely of players playing either university or high school rugby. Contrast that with the Welsh side, all of whom would be playing for their regions or in their academies. Essentially, it was a case of professionals versus amateurs and in that struggle there can only be one winner, regardless of how talented your players are. There is no way that they can compete with the physicality of tier one nations at this age unless serious changes are made to the way the game is run at an underage level in Japan. This is borne out by comment made by team manager Yasuhiro Iijima:

"We need to… cope with the intensity of some of the defending we're going to face. We are not used to that strength and speed."

So, with that in mind, what can the JRFU do itself to help prepare the national team for the 2019 World Cup? A start would be a reform of the underage system. It is vital that they can identify talent at an early age and give these players a better level of coaching than they are currently receiving, as well as preparing them for the physicality of the professional game. This is not just a Japanese problem of course, but one being encountered by most of the smaller nations, even those in tier 1. Secondly, the Japanese domestic game is in need of some review. The season is quite short and, as all players are employees of companies who field teams, it quite common that these players are working full time while also trying to play rugby at a very high level. This simply isn't a feasible model if Japan is to get the best out of these players. Perhaps cutting the number of teams in the Top League to 8 as opposed to 14, and having these teams play each other three times, allowing more fixtures and a more concentrated pool of resources and high calibre players could be the way forward. Failing this, Japan needs to look at getting more of its internationals playing abroad in the professional Leagues of Europe and SANZAR. To the best of my knowledge, only second row Justin Ives, hooker Shota Horie and diminutive scrum half Fumiaki Tanaka ply their trade outside of Japan, with all three set to play for Otago in the ITM Championship this year. The more players they can get playing at a high level the better, so in my opinion the likes of Eddie Jones should seriously be pushing his players toward playing abroad.

In closing, I must say that I'm mildly optimistic for Japan's prospects at the 2019 World Cup. They'll more than likely receive a top seeding, which will significantly improve their group. They'll be playing more test rugby over the next 7 years than ever before, their juvenile teams seem to be competing at the very top end of the second tier, and they have a relatively young team, most of whom will still be around come 2019. If they can get to the level of Samoa for example, there's a decent possibility that they could be aiming for a quarter final spot, which would be an excellent return for a team that only won its first World Cup game in 2011.


Back to Blog
 
Eddie Jones also had something to say of the tour.

Eddie Jones has actually ruffled a lot of feathers down there in Japan, he is very outspoken in a culture where the etiquette isn't to do so.

He absolutely lambasted his side after their French Barbarians defeat calling the side "abysmal" and giving the side some Fergie-esque hairdryer treatment. See this rant on this interview.

Watch between 2:45 and 3:20 as the Japan captain picks up the mic and smiles, and gets put down by Eddie Jones who goes on a rant. He goes on another rant at 5:50 until the end of the video and onto the second video.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/qubao1O6Ldc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/LbZpAnaUOi0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen=""></iframe>

On a positive note, the Brave Blossoms fielded relatively young sides in both tests, with the average age of the XXII in the second test being just 24, with an average of 17 tests per player.

Also worth noting that Japan after media criticism have decided to stop playing New Zealanders/Tongans who qualify via 3 years playing in the Japanese league (hence why James Arlidge, Justin Ives, Luke Thompson and Bryce Robins and others have been dropped, Ryan Nicholas is the only real import they have selected this year).

But after media criticism of the Japanese players performances against the French Barbarians, Jones said he may change his selection policy.

While all of that was going on, the much less glamorous and publicised IRB Junior World Trophy was also getting underway. The final saw the hosts, the US, go head to head with Japan in a smashing contest. A Noah Tarrant try in the last 10 minutes gave the Americans a narrow 37-33 victory, a fitting end to a fine competition. No doubt the US will be ecstatic that they now get the opportunity to compete with the big guns in the JWC next year, but one gets the feeling that the IRB will be mildly disappointed that Japan managed to fall at the final hurdle for the third year in a row.

I know somebody who lives and follows rugby closely in Japan who told me it was actually Japan's weaker U20 team over the past few years (the also lost reasonably heavily to Tonga U20 in a fixture outside the tournament), and it was surprising they actually reached the final.

Whilst it would have been great for them to win the tournament, but I wouldn't be too devastated, look at the 2011 champions Samoa's results against New Zealand and Wales this year (63-0 and 74-3) and then add about 10-20 points to it if it was Japan. All the teams in the IRB Junior World Trophy would get a mauling. Obviously, it would have been good to test themselves out against that opposition, but not the end of the world they didn't get the chance

From the perspective of getting Japan competitive these sort of tours are vital. Unfortunately, only Wales (2013), Scotland (2016) and Ireland (2017) are scheduled to visit before the World Cup and with two of tours taking place during years in which the Lions are also touring, it would seem that Japan will be getting fewer chances to test themselves against top tier nations than would be preferable.

It would be preferable perhaps, but that's more top tier tours any other Tier 2 nations, more than the Pacific Islanders are scheduled to get, and of course more than Eastern Europe's combined total of 0 scheduled top tier fixtures.

They play Georgia and Romania this November. Should be an interesting match against Georgia, provided Georgia doesn't have 16 forwards unavailable like they did in June.

As stated earlier, this year’s JWT saw Japan get to their third final in a row, losing once more. In previous years they were somewhat unlucky, coming up against Italy and Samoa, but this year they really should have gotten themselves promoted if they harbour serious ambitions about competing with the tier 1 nations.

Why was it "somewhat unlucky" to come up Italy and Samoa?

To the best of my knowledge, only second row Justin Ives, hooker Shota Horie and diminutive scrum half Fumiaki Tanaka ply their trade outside of Japan, with all three set to play for Otago in the ITM Championship this year.

Christian Loamanu (banned for life from the Japanese team for a cannabis related incident) has played with Toulon and has signed with Treviso for next season.

Tanaka and Horie are both aiming to be selected in the Highlanders Super Rugby squad in 2013 by the way.

In closing, I must say that I’m mildly optimistic for Japan’s prospects at the 2019 World Cup. They’ll more than likely receive a top seeding, which will significantly improve their group. They’ll be playing more test rugby over the next 7 years than ever before, their juvenile teams seem to be competing at the very top end of the second tier, and they have a relatively young team, most of whom will still be around come 2019. If they can get to the level of Samoa for example, there’s a decent possibility that they could be aiming for a quarter final spot

If they can get to the level of Samoa? You could say that about any nation though.

I do think Japan can improve when they get more professional, but 2019 I think looks a bit soon. They lack some basics which no side can succeed without, like a good scrum and defence. They are kind of like a worse tackling version of Canada at the moment.

What is it in this particular side that strikes you as them being likely to improve to be level with the best Tier 2 side in 7 years?

The only way they can do it that quickly, is to boost the side with imported talent which qualifies after 3 years in the Top League, or send players in mass to play in Europe/SANZAR. I can't see the latter happening, and the first was criticised in 2011. I can't think of that much of dramatic improvements in that timescale without using the methods of importing players from a higher level, or exporting players to a higher level.

We'll have to wait and see about top seeding, England as hosts for 2015, won't automatically be top seeds in their pool at the World Cup. But then Japan would need more help to get through.

a team that only won its first World Cup game in 2011

Japan's first (and only) World Cup win was in 1991 against Zimbabwe. Since then they haven't won a World Cup game, but drew to Canada twice in 2007 (a game they rescued in stoppage time) and 2011 (a game they blew after leading for most of it).
 
It would be preferable perhaps, but that's more top tier tours any other Tier 2 nations, more than the Pacific Islanders are scheduled to get, and of course more than Eastern Europe's combined total of 0 scheduled top tier fixtures.

They play Georgia and Romania this November. Should be an interesting match against Georgia, provided Georgia doesn't have 16 forwards unavailable like they did in June.

Yeah, but this isn't about fairness, it's about priority. The IRB must get Japan up to speed by 2019, as they're hosting the World Cup. If Japan are uncompetitive, there's a strong enough chance that no one will get behind the team and interest in the tournament from the host country will be low. That'd be a disaster for the IRB. Hence the have to be given special treatment for the next 7 seasons, over the likes of Canada and Georgia.

Why was it "somewhat unlucky" to come up Italy and Samoa?
Unlucky in that they couldn't have had more challenging games in either tournament. Okay, you could argue that if you want to win you have to beat the best, and that's probably more true at junior level than senior level, but in comparison to the opposition they faced this year, the two previous Japan sides had a more unlucky draw.


Christian Loamanu (banned for life from the Japanese team for a cannabis related incident) has played with Toulon and has signed with Treviso for next season.

That's why I said 'to the best of my knowledge.' You've got to cover your ass in situations like these.

Tanaka and Horie are both aiming to be selected in the Highlanders Super Rugby squad in 2013 by the way.

Yep, but I'm inclined to see how they get on at ITM Cup level before saying they'll definitely be in the hunt for franchise spots next year.


If they can get to the level of Samoa? You could say that about any nation though.

I do think Japan can improve when they get more professional, but 2019 I think looks a bit soon. They lack some basics which no side can succeed without, like a good scrum and defence. They are kind of like a worse tackling version of Canada at the moment.

What is it in this particular side that strikes you as them being likely to improve to be level with the best Tier 2 side in 7 years?

As I mentioned above, I don't particularly think they're the most likely if everything were equal. They're probably behind the Canadians and Georgians, but it is more important to world rugby that Japan gets competitive than any of the other tier two nations by 2019. Hence the blog

The only way they can do it that quickly, is to boost the side with imported talent which qualifies after 3 years in the Top League, or send players in mass to play in Europe/SANZAR. I can't see the latter happening, and the first was criticised in 2011. I can't think of that much of dramatic improvements in that timescale without using the methods of importing players from a higher level, or exporting players to a higher level.

We'll have to wait and see about top seeding, England as hosts for 2015, won't automatically be top seeds in their pool at the World Cup. But then Japan would need more help to get through.

The hosts have always been one of the top seeds. I'd imagine that the IRB will tweak the qualification process to this end.



Japan's first (and only) World Cup win was in 1991 against Zimbabwe. Since then they haven't won a World Cup game, but drew to Canada twice in 2007 (a game they rescued in stoppage time) and 2011 (a game they blew after leading for most of it).

Ah, sorry, my bad.
 
Tanaka and Horie are both aiming to be selected in the Highlanders Super Rugby squad in 2013 by the way.

I hadn't heard that, but it is good to see. If Tanaka has a strong ITM Cup season he could well get himself a spot in the Highlanders backing up Aaron Smith (though Brad Weber will give him some good competition in the Otago side). I don't think Horie will get into the squad however - he is a good player no doubt, but the Highlanders have two aging hookers (Hore and Rutledge) - if they were to lose one of those two (Rutledge) they would probably opt for a younger player who is likely to be around for a long time (Liam Coltman or Brayden Mitchell) rather than someone whose future is less certain...
 
Yeah, but this isn't about fairness, it's about priority. The IRB must get Japan up to speed by 2019, as they're hosting the World Cup. If Japan are uncompetitive, there's a strong enough chance that no one will get behind the team and interest in the tournament from the host country will be low. That'd be a disaster for the IRB. Hence the have to be given special treatment for the next 7 seasons, over the likes of Canada and Georgia.

Much like now and their poor 4,000 crowds ...

The point is though, Japan already have more home matches than any other Tier 2 nation, therefore whilst it may not be ideal the amount they get, it's better than anybody else in regard to tours. Although the Pacific Islands get more fixtures against top sides in November.

I agree to extent about special treatment, but it can only go so far at expense of others. This is where there is a fault in the system in my opinion, as Tier 2 teams should be able to progress themselves without any "treatment" needed, but I won't go into that.

Out of interest, in other sports, what did FIFA do (if anything) to strengthen South Africa for 2010 who aren't exactly one of football's top sides?

Unlucky in that they couldn't have had more challenging games in either tournament. Okay, you could argue that if you want to win you have to beat the best, and that's probably more true at junior level than senior level, but in comparison to the opposition they faced this year, the two previous Japan sides had a more unlucky draw.

There's always been a side like that in the tournament though, just this year they were lucky USA got Tonga (who beat Japan U20 45-24 this year) out of the way for them.

Yep, but I'm inclined to see how they get on at ITM Cup level before saying they'll definitely be in the hunt for franchise spots next year.

I never said they were "definitely in the hunt". But they are available for selection if Jamie Joseph (a former Japanese international) chooses.
 
For long term, maybe it's time for the Japanese pro teams to stop chasing aging stars with huge contracts and spend the money on youth development.
 
For long term, maybe it's time for the Japanese pro teams to stop chasing aging stars with huge contracts and spend the money on youth development.

I don't think that has the same effect on the Japanese situation as it would on say, Ireland not being able to develop tight heads because there 3 foreigners in the provinces. With 14 teams in the Top League there are still lots of places available for home grown players. I can see how the wages of the likes of Jacques Fourie could be better spent on ensuring your entire squad is professional though. Then again, considering how few Japanese players play abroad, it's not a bad thing to have an influx of foreign players bringing different styles and approaches into the league.

I think the main problem with the domestic Japanese rugby is the fact that the talent pool is far too spread out. A poor standard of domestic play means that their internationals are at a disadvantages when they play against players who are having tough games every week. Italy, who are far further down the road than Japan, were unable to make a ten team league work, what hope do Japan have with a 14 team league? In my opinion an 8 team league would be the best they could do at the moment.

I wish Charles was still about, I'd love to hear his opinions on the subject.
 

Latest posts

Top