30 Games limit agreement: is it working?

[FrenchFan]

Is the agreement over the 30 game limit followed by Toulon and Toulouse?

They have been fielding the majoritiy of their internationals as if the agreement didn't seem to exist

Nber of games played after Top 14 Day 9 + 1 CE - Total 10

Toulouse: Doussain 10 Fickou 10 Maestri 8 Medard 8 Dusautoir 8 Fritz 8 Huget 7
Mourad's army: Mermoz 10 Chiocci 10 Menini 9 Taofifenua 9 Bastareaud 9 Orioli 8 Suta 8 Bruni 6 Tillous-Borde 6

if the 2 clubs are really playing ball with the LNR agreement and resting the players as they should, how do they get 10 games out of 10 for Fickou Mermoz Doussain Chiocci??

Hard not to see how these players could not be in the red come March-April.

Does this thing look like it's working to you?

 

[Big Ewis]

yeah I think we've all been a little bit surprised by how often those guys are being used...don't forget if you come in after the 65th minute, it doesn't count the same..I dunno, we'll just have to see but yes according to pundits and the media generally, Toulon (or Toulouse) are following the laws.

 

[gaston le gaff]

yeah I think we've all been a little bit surprised by how often those guys are being used...don't forget if you come in after the 65th minute, it doesn't count the same..I dunno, we'll just have to see but yes according to pundits and the media generally, Toulon (or Toulouse) are following the laws.

just to let you know its 60+mins anything after 60 mins is good for not counting........ Thinqs will be different after Christmas when everybody has a better idea of where they are and who is contesting relegation, the Top 6 seems to be taking shape already but nothing is final. Have my doubts about Grenoble but Bordeaux could be there at the end.!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[welshglory]

Yah the English system is based on playing time, so 30 × 80mins i believe.

Not sure if the French Union are following the same principal, but it seems the most likely explanation

 

[ratsapprentice]

There is also a series of "windows" where EPS players have to be rested.

 

[Big Ewis]

no doubt England has a much better system than France there...wish we had something as simple and similar, but as always as we say in French, "why do things simply when you can do them complicatedly".

 

[FrenchFan]

Well we're not done with suprises. Plenty more fun on the way as we get further into the season. I am convinced the 30 game agreement is going to cause more problems than bring solutions.

I don't know the English system. But Im certain that relationships btw their clubs and federation could not be as lousy as they are here.

I think they will reach a low in 2015.

This article warns of a possible strike among pro players which could happen over 2015. It may or may not happen. But the fact that there is talk in the air of a possible strike action among pro players doesn't exactly point to harmonious relationships

In a season when clubs and FFR should be pulling together with the WC as a common goal, both parties are firing missiles at each other

http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/xv-de...s-pour-aller-au-musee._sto4453765/story.shtml

The war of words (just read Azema's statement and Blanco's response) that started a long time ago is getting worse. Both parties say they are talking to each other, at the same time it doesn't take a genius to see there is no sign of any reconciliation in sight. With the pressure of 2015 and the WC on the horizon, it's going to get worse

Simply put FFR and our pro clubs do not speak the same rugby language.

 

[Big Ewis]

diverging interests. That's it, that's all this is, and that's all "problems" ever are. Now to conciliate the one with the other through some form of consensus...I mean this isn't even interesting to talk about. What must happen will happen, it's a question of fkng cash and interests, all French fans care about is their club and country's well being at the end of the day. Us, the fans, don't have much talking to do, it's up to these fkng bureaucrats to make moves and find some sort of mutual compromise.

 

[FrenchFan]

Why respond if this 'isn't even interesting to talk about' :huh:

I wish it was just diverging interests. There's a bit more to it. Playing down issues is not the best way to solve them.

Bottom line is we're talking about an amateur federation trying to rule the ship of the professional game and failing at it. The clubs know what pro rugby is about. FFR doesn't. And it's the national side on the receiving end of it.

The clubs are going from strength to strength. Les bleus remain stuck in full reverse gear.

Replacing the coach is only a small part of the fix. And it all depends on who they appoint.

FFR may get it wrong again and remplace a lousy coach by another one (Pelous), they're prone to do that, that's what they did with the last 2....

 

[Big Ewis]

Why respond if this 'isn't even interesting to talk about' :huh:

because that's a point to make in itself. The point being that I don't think it's an issue that requires an exchange really as it's a very simple problem, and although the solutions are difficult to gather it doesn't belong to us fans to think of any, unless we've got a considerable amount of inside *knowledge* of what really goes on. Same reason I've understood discussing politics was perfectly useless. There's about 3 or 4 sentences that are worthy of being extended, at most, the rest is just ppl yapping.
Again, all I wish for is for a healthy, strong Top 14 and France squad. I'm not going to start dictating what should be done, I'm just a guy on a computer. Plus I totally need to take a shower, so add that to the equation and I'm not nearly fit to speak.

I mean, here:

Bottom line is we're talking about an amateur federation trying to rule the ship of the professional game and failing at it.

there you go. That's about all of it. I'm not shutting you down, I'm just making the point there's no point (for me at least) spending too much time thinking about this. What requires to be understood's been acquired in my mind for a while now.
I mean all of France has talked about it extensively: coaching staff is clearly well incompetent, we have the players but we suck - gotta be the coaches.

 

[FrenchFan]

well like it or lump it, FFR's interference and incompetence are one of the most highly debated topics in forums here. Just look at all the anti-FFR comments on Rugbyrama.fr

 

[Big Ewis]

well like it or lump it, FFR's interference and incompetence are one of the most highly debated topics in forums here. Just look at all the anti-FFR comments on Rugbyrama.fr

people are going to talk about whatever is current. When have discussion about politics ever been interesting or not morbidly redundant ? Yet everyone - EVERYONE - talks politics.

 

[FrenchFan]

people are going to talk about whatever is current. When have discussion about politics ever been interesting or not morbidly redundant ? Yet everyone - EVERYONE - talks politics.

you're doing really well Big E on a topic that doesn't interest you: you're on your 5th post already, keep it up man!! :lol:

 

[Big Ewis]

you're doing really well Big E on a topic that doesn't interest you: you're on your 5th post already, keep it up man!! :lol:

well that's to blame on you, that's your tab my friend ! You keep inciting me, you're like a post magnet !! I can't just keep a Toulousain hanging like that !

 

[FrenchFan]

oops according to Rugbyrama no less than 14 internationals are already in the red vs the 30 game limit, surprise surprise

Dusautoir who was on 8 games last time i made the same point is now on 14, Le Roux 15 and we're not even half way thru the season, there's 4 more rounds of T14+ 3 rounds before 6N

how do same players stay within the limit I don't know...

if Dusautoir were to play the 5 games in 6N (as no doubt the staff expects him to) + 4 remaining games in EC,that would bring his total to 23 games and he could only play another 7 in Top 14 out of the 15 remaining games left in the regular season (play-offs not included) :huh:

http://www.lequipe.fr/Rugby/Actualites/Les-joueurs-a-mettre-au-repos/517406

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

But isn't that fair enough? 30 games feels quite fair to me off the bat.

In the SH with the test players now only active in the Currie Cup and ITM cup to 'warm up' if they havn't been active during the year they can expect 16 games of SR (with 3 possible play-off games at most) and 13 test games (2 more for NZ and Aus who play Bledisloe 3 and always seem to push for an ad-hoc game somewhere). So that's 34 for an absolute maximum... okay, I get it. A guy like Vermeulen, JdV, Retallick and the majority of the uninjured Aus team have been playing around 32+ of full 80 minute fast paced games. Is there any room at this stage to renegotiate for, say, 35 games which seem more realistic everything considered?

 

[FrenchFan]

They decided on 30 games because 35 games seemed way too much. Last season players like Maestri and Huget of Toulouse finished with 34 and 35 games each. So they decided on 30. I can't see any clubs being happy with that limit. Toulouse walked out of LNR (the professional arm of FFR in charge of Top 14) when the so called 'agreement' was signed (it was more like shoved down the throat of all the clubs).
My point is this 30 game limit does not work in the real world. On paper sure looks great but only on paper. FFR-LNR in their attempt to rein in the internationls have thrown another major spanner into the game here, as only they can. It's impractical and by the look of it downright impossible to manage for clubs AND national team. I don't know how this will end as LNR didn't provide much details on how this is supposed to work during the entire season.

 

[Big Ewis]

definitely weird...like you said attractive on paper but completely unrealizable. The solution is elsewhere.

 

[FrenchFan]

But isn't that fair enough? 30 games feels quite fair to me off the bat.

In the SH with the test players now only active in the Currie Cup and ITM cup to 'warm up' if they havn't been active during the year they can expect 16 games of SR (with 3 possible play-off games at most) and 13 test games (2 more for NZ and Aus who play Bledisloe 3 and always seem to push for an ad-hoc game somewhere). So that's 34 for an absolute maximum... okay, I get it. A guy like Vermeulen, JdV, Retallick and the majority of the uninjured Aus team have been playing around 32+ of full 80 minute fast paced games. Is there any room at this stage to renegotiate for, say, 35 games which seem more realistic everything considered?

Stormer as a Mod, would you be able to change the ***le of the thread to 30 Games limit agreement: is it working? my own misprint. Thanks in advance

- - - Updated - - -

One likely outcome could be that some internationals will get to the limit very quickly as showned by stats in that article. They'll have to call back players with less games but this doesn't ensure the continuity of les Bleus selection policy (provided there was even one!) and some of these players while fresher on paper may be simply not good enough come WC time.

The end result is that we will see quite a different French team in 2015 and that a lot of changes might be forced by the 30 game limit.

Check out the blue list in the article with players like Trinh-Duc, Debatty etc

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

My pleasure. Like Ewis said the word to use is weird. It just seems like unnecessarily complicating a simple matter that has more elegant solutions.