[2024 Six Nations] England vs Ireland - 09/03/24

[TommiG88]

I've just seen the 5min highlights, looked like a good game. Did England play well?

Yeah. Ireland may have been slightly off it but England would have run NZ or SA close with the performance yesterday. Night and day between the Scotland performance

 

[Zed]

Yeah. Ireland may have been slightly off it but England would have run NZ or SA close with the performance yesterday. Night and day between the Scotland performance

Their tries were pretty impressive. Looked like a well-oiled machine.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I disagree on the SA and NZ comment.
Reality is they would have both been fairly off, I also don't think against SA he would play like that.

Don't get me wrong fantastic win, but let's not act like we didn't butcher a lot of scoring opportunities and create a lot of chances for the opposition.


I'm certainly enjoying the win a lot, but will Borthwick be able to carry on and progress on it? Espcially when expectations are back on England.

But it's great to see that finally a squad is actually starting to be built.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

I did like the fact Chessum packed down at 8 on defensive scrums a lot of times
I thought it was a smart way to help with off the mark line speed

 

[Bada-Bing!]

England 23-22 Ireland: Six Nations player ratings from Twickenham

Ben Earl shone for England but it was a difficult day for Dan Sheehan and the Ireland pack

www.theguardian.com

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Not massively disappointed to be honest. Anyone who has watched this game long enough knew that was on the cards, England have played their best game of the 6n against us for most of the last 10 years, they're the antithesis of how we play and it works. We do a prediction comp in work and I backed England.

The squad has taken a step back this year, that was the case in France and v Wales but passengers can hide and lack of leadership can be irrelevant when your pack is in the ascendancy. A couple changes are needed next week and some real reconsideration of some long time starters before the SA tour (POM and Furlong). I don't think the 6/2 failed but it needs different personnel, Frawley playing wing was a disaster, JGP was better but the less said about his 9 replacement…

My only real issue with it is having a fit Ringrose available and not picking him. He's a world class player and a strong leader in a back line that is now void of one.

Even despite all of that we still could have or even should have won with the ball in our hands with 90 seconds to play (not against the kick but kicking short was window licking good from the sub 9). It's a good platform to have with talent from about 4-5 years of near constant 20s success to come through.

England went out and took it though, matched our pack and then had Ben Earl carrying like a demon. Kicked far better than us, apart from Lowe's big swinger I can't remember us winning a kicking battle. The composure to win it at the end there is huge for them, lose there and despite the increased quality in performance the squad is in no better position than it was after Scotland. If they get their back line to a point where they can start finishing chances they're given they'll be back on top.

Id be very very surprised if we don't go and win the championship next week with a comfortable victory but if we tie England on points we'll have a better PD but they'll have won more matches, who gets the cup?

 

[Reiser99]

Front row does need addressing, but honestly not sure we have a solution.

At what point do people say Borthwick has to bite the bullet and moves Cole and Marler on? 3 years out? 2? 1?

 

[higgik]

Earl wasn't great in his first like, ten caps. Very Ludlam in enthusiasm, but less impact and if memory serves was dropping balls, failing to secure our own ball and was just a bit chaotic. See Lawrence V Scotland or Malins in all his caps for similar smelling performances. The odd moment of brilliance massively offset by anonymity or dumb stuff because of the step from the Prem to absolutely not the Prem

He's absolutely made the shirt (8, I guess) his own now though. Imagine what could happen if we stopped cutting players so frequently (while also cutting rank bad players to get some lesser players a decent run coughcoughDALYCAREcoughcough)

Really impressed by Chessum today. He's been dogshit until now at lock this 6n. Knackered from scrums isn't it because he was making bad decisions in the first few mins. Maybe just being wide is his thing at the moment

But this leaves us less carriers in heavy traffic, as Itoje is not a carrier, nor Cole.
We need more heavy workers in the pack, so is all about balance.

 

[HamJan]

Well that's two unexpected results this weekend

Only one unexpected result

 

[Which Tyler]

At what point do people say Borthwick has to bite the bullet and moves Cole and Marler on? 3 years out? 2? 1?

When they're not the best available options, or they retire of their own accord.

What we do need, is to get some game time into some 3rd choice players (and hope that Sinckler can rediscover some form) so that when we do move on, the new guys aren't shell shocked at international level.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

When they're not the best available options, or they retire of their own accord.

What we do need, is to get some game time into some 3rd choice players (and hope that Sinckler can rediscover some form) so that when we do move on, the new guys aren't shell shocked at international level.

Main thing is that scrummaging is put at the top of the list of requirements. All the pretty stuff becomes a bit irrelevant if your set piece is disintegrating.

Encouraged to see Dan get a bit more time yesterday. Stil think he's a work in progress but he's obviously SB's chosen man so he has to show faith in him. George was a bit more prominent in the first half than for a while - curious why he was taken off so early though, maybe the data said he was done otherwise it felt like a game where you would want the experience and leadership.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Twitter ended up not being that bad, seeing Heaslip and Stringer get rinsed would be good on the best day.

The Welsh are delighted too which is hilarious.

 

[Crash Hamster]

Had to go straight out for curry and beer at the final whistle (it's a hard life) but one or two thoughts:

The standard of the Premiership has obviously improved massively over this rest weekend. It seems the players are good enough after all. Turns out it actually is possible to play with attacking intent and give a good side a good game.

Winning Grand Slams is hard; winning back to back GSs is very hard. You have to go to some gnarly places and win every time. The way Ireland demolished France gave their second GS an inevitability, but nothing is guaranteed.

Ollie Chessum suddenly found a rich vein of form.

George Martin is an absolute monster; hopefully Tuima can come on and give us another option for TH lock.

Ben Earl is now officially a National Treasure and he should give himself a loud cheer and a large clap.

Borthwick playing his 6 who is really a 5 at 8, or his 7 at 8, because he hates actual 8s, then bringing on every 8 he had at his disposal was comedy gold.

Alex Mitchell was excellent again.

Marcus Smith is very good at rugby.

 

[Jimbo]

Not massively disappointed to be honest. Anyone who has watched this game long enough knew that was on the cards, England have played their best game of the 6n against us for most of the last 10 years, they're the antithesis of how we play and it works. We do a prediction comp in work and I backed England.

The squad has taken a step back this year, that was the case in France and v Wales but passengers can hide and lack of leadership can be irrelevant when your pack is in the ascendancy. A couple changes are needed next week and some real reconsideration of some long time starters before the SA tour (POM and Furlong). I don't think the 6/2 failed but it needs different personnel, Frawley playing wing was a disaster, JGP was better but the less said about his 9 replacement…

My only real issue with it is having a fit Ringrose available and not picking him. He's a world class player and a strong leader in a back line that is now void of one.

Even despite all of that we still could have or even should have won with the ball in our hands with 90 seconds to play (not against the kick but kicking short was window licking good from the sub 9). It's a good platform to have with talent from about 4-5 years of near constant 20s success to come through.

England went out and took it though, matched our pack and then had Ben Earl carrying like a demon. Kicked far better than us, apart from Lowe's big swinger I can't remember us winning a kicking battle. The composure to win it at the end there is huge for them, lose there and despite the increased quality in performance the squad is in no better position than it was after Scotland. If they get their back line to a point where they can start finishing chances they're given they'll be back on top.

Id be very very surprised if we don't go and win the championship next week with a comfortable victory but if we tie England on points we'll have a better PD but they'll have won more matches, who gets the cup?

England left a lots of points out there both with missed opportunities and off the boot, just shows how good Ireland are that with less opportunity they were still always in a position to win it. 6 -2 is always going to be risky but can pay off, not to discredit Ireland in anyway but I do wonder if they suffered somewhat not being battle hardened, they comfortably won the other 3 games without getting out of 3rd if we are honest.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

George Martin is an absolute monster;

I'd say he's our most influential player right now.

Our 2 most convincing performances recently were yesterday and the SF. We were poor in the earlier rounds of this tournament. Can anyone spot the pattern?

Who'd have thought that aggressive take no sh*t physicality matters?

 

[Which Tyler]

I'd say he's our most influential player right now.

Not Earl?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

England left a lots of points out there both with missed opportunities and off the boot, just shows how good Ireland are that with less opportunity they were still always in a position to win it. 6 -2 is always going to be risky but can pay off, not to discredit Ireland in anyway but I do wonder if they suffered somewhat not being battle hardened, they comfortably won the other 3 games without getting out of 3rd if we are honest.

I think that comes down to leadership, everyone is a leader when winning comfortably, lads go into their shells when given a bloody nose. The fact that one of the guys to do that yesterday was the 34 year old captain kind of shows where we're at. NZ used to hammer teams 4/5 times but still be able to win the tight one.

It's always a rebuild process the year after the World Cup and Ireland is no different. Now our rebuild is more like doing up the kitchen whereas England have knocked the house down to build up (I think Wales are going scorched earth) but a few rusty pipes were exposed yesterday.

Ireland were never perfect, no team are, but the ease of which we have the ball away in the red zone yesterday was as bad as I've seen for awhile even with the faulty line out in the World Cup and then adding the ill discipline to give free exits to that was horrible. Apart from the first three minutes we never applied territorial pressure which is what the recent success was built on. England were responsible for that but 12 months ago Ireland could have withstood the pressure applied.

If I never see our sub 9 from yesterday in an Ireland shirt again it'll be a good outcome from it though. He's been a passenger for 4-5 years now.

 

[higgik]

Had to go straight out for curry and beer at the final whistle (it's a hard life) but one or two thoughts:

The standard of the Premiership has obviously improved massively over this rest weekend. It seems the players are good enough after all. Turns out it actually is possible to play with attacking intent and give a good side a good game.

Winning Grand Slams is hard; winning back to back GSs is very hard. You have to go to some gnarly places and win every time. The way Ireland demolished France gave their second GS an inevitability, but nothing is guaranteed.

Ollie Chessum suddenly found a rich vein of form.

George Martin is an absolute monster; hopefully Tuima can come on and give us another option for TH lock.

Ben Earl is now officially a National Treasure and he should give himself a loud cheer and a large clap.

Borthwick playing his 6 who is really a 5 at 8, or his 7 at 8, because he hates actual 8s, then bringing on every 8 he had at his disposal was comedy gold.

Alex Mitchell was excellent again.

Marcus Smith is very good at rugby.

Think balance in the pack has been the biggest challenge.
Itoje can be world class, but you then need another ball carrier somewhere else, so Genge comes in, or we use Billy, even when he is patently past his best.
Using Genge, we lose scrum power.
Maybe giving Itoje a summer off and developing a row of Tuima and Martin might help with this allowing a BR of CCS or Pearson, Underhill or Curry and Earl at 8.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Not Earl?

No.

Don't get me wrong, Earl's been going individually very very well. But he was also in the team v Ita, Wal and Sco when the team performances were underwhelming. Martin comes back in as he did for the SF and all of a sudden the team looks an entirely different proposition in games played in very different styles. Of course there are other factors at play but maybe its Johnson Syndrome, a big guy properly putting it about helps set the tempo and is very easy to follow. It's the kind of unofficial leadership we've been desperately missing.

Its a small sample size at the moment but when you've got someone evidently making a difference against 2 top teams you have to take notice.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Maybe giving Itoje a summer off

Can people stop trying to drop out best forwards please. I'd like to actually win some games