[2021 Six Nations] England Squad

[Reiser99]

Slade got plenty of ball - the quality of the passes was shocking though
They were all coming at head height so he had to jump to catch it properly and had to break his stride every time so hit the line with no momentum, or the defence using that extra half second to pressure him for his own pass

Just such a bad game from Farrell

While Farrell has not been great for a while, it was made far more obvious by his lack of game time. Passing should be simple and he made it look difficult.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Yeah, I get that I'm biased but **** me, if topping the tackle and turnover charts for your team doesn't let you keep your place then what does?

Fair point.

Tackle count was high, but on how many of those did the Scots recycle fairly easily?

The same sort of rationale used to apply to Geoff Parling and Chris Robshaw. They were working hard, fine, but how much of a difference were they really making? That's the point with Underhill, others will make as many tackles but he sends people backwards and causes problems for opponents. Dominant tackles was the buzz phrase and it's absolutely right.

For me Hill lacks the presence / edge that all top locks have. Certainly not near the same class as Itoje, Kruis, Lawes or Launch, and probably wasn't even the best Chiefs lock on the field yesterday. But credit for putting in a shift.

 

[Not Eddie Jones]

The same sort of rationale used to apply to Geoff Parling and Chris Robshaw. They were working hard, fine, but how much of a difference were they really making? That's the point with Underhill, others will make as many tackles but he sends people backwards and causes problems for opponents. Dominant tackles was the buzz phrase and it's absolutely right.

Yeah, that was one of our big problems yesterday, no dominant tackles. Scotland seemed to be winning all the collisions. Not sure why that was, given the personnel we had on the pitch.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Fair point.

Tackle count was high, but on how many of those did the Scots recycle fairly easily?

The same sort of rationale used to apply to Geoff Parling and Chris Robshaw. They were working hard, fine, but how much of a difference were they really making? That's the point with Underhill, others will make as many tackles but he sends people backwards and causes problems for opponents. Dominant tackles was the buzz phrase and it's absolutely right.

For me Hill lacks the presence / edge that all top locks have. Certainly not near the same class as Itoje, Kruis, Lawes or Launch, and probably wasn't even the best Chiefs lock on the field yesterday. But credit for putting in a shift.

I don't actually disagree with any of that and do think that we'd be better off with a bigger, heavier lock to partner Itoje. My point is moreso that I think Hill is copping a lot of completely unwarranted flack for putting in a very solid performance; Genge, Curry and Vunipola were actually the only players yesterday to put in any 'dominant' tackles and yet you're only singling out Hill for not being a dominant defender. I'm by no means calling for Wilson to be dropped but, for example, Wilson made half as many carries as Hill, less tackles, no dominant tackles, and yet he's an absolute bolt on for next week while Hill needs dropping. Doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yeah, I don't think Hill is a bad player but I don't think the combo of him and Itoje works,
Despite the stats (as in height/weight) Hill doesn't really have the impact in the tight that you'd want from your tighthead lock
I don't think Itoje/Lawes is a good combo, for the same reason
EJ is so obsessed with the whole pack playing like flankers that he's neglecting the tight nitty-gritty game

Really wish Kruis had decided to slum it out in the Championship for a season - or that Launchbury hadn't broken

 

[Scotty]

Something i though of thats changed, EJ is not making statments in thd media getting everyone to focus on him being an idiot and less on the players, which can take some pressure off them. Not linking that to the loss for the record.

 

[Which Tyler]

With all this talk about Hill receiving unwarranted flack - post-match, what flack has Hill received?
Easily possible that I've missed it, but equally, I've noticed a few times with (especially Exeter) players where if they're not praised to the skies, then the poster just be full of hatred for them.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

With all this talk about Hill receiving unwarranted flack - post-match, what flack has Hill received?
Easily possible that I've missed it, but equally, I've noticed a few times with (especially Exeter) players where if they're not praised to the skies, then the poster just be full of hatred for them.

I mean there have been several calls for him to be dropped for next week and in the match thread people were saying he had to come off for laws. By no means people being 'full of hatred' for him but I'd call it flack.

 

[Which Tyler]

Dropping him for a more experienced, arguably better player? I wouldn't call that flack TBH.

Flack would be undue criticism or distain, highlighting the negatives whilst downplaying the positives - not preferring Lawes

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Dropping him for a more experienced, arguably better player? I wouldn't call that flack TBH.

Flack would be undue criticism or distain, not preferring Lawes

People were definitely criticising his performance rather than just saying that Lawes would be better which I'd argue is undue criticism given that he was one of the better performers.

 

[Which Tyler]

Again, I haven't seen anyone going OTT - which doesn't mean that no-one has.
Every player has their performance criticised, especially after a performance like yesterday.

If someone is "copping a lot of completely unwarranted flack" I'm looking for more than "someone wanted Lawes instead" or "someone criticised his performance". As I haven't seen them, I'm looking for quotes, and appreciate if no-one can be bothered.


Until then, I'm putting this unwarranted flack in the same bracket as when I've been told of obviously hating Nowell, Slade, LCD, Fazlet because I named them on my hypothetical bench behind May, Tuilagi, George and Ford (all of which has happened)

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

Again, I haven't seen anyone going OTT - which doesn't mean that no-one has.
Every player has their performance criticised, especially after a performance like yesterday.

Yeah I agree, there's not been anything OTT - I don't think I ever said that there had? I just felt that Hill had put in a better performance than he was being given credit for and argued as much.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Dropping him for a more experienced, arguably better player? I wouldn't call that flack TBH.

Flack would be undue criticism or distain, highlighting the negatives whilst downplaying the positives - not preferring Lawes

As a saints fan you can shut the hell up!!! (I mean that as a joke)

But I bought up the flack issue he was getting because I think he played well. Lawes has really struggled at lock for a while at international level and our saints scrum is nearly always poor when he's locking compared to when he isn't (with the same props etc).

On the other thread a lot of people have been giving him flack for not being a highlight reel performance where as he did more work than billy and George combined.

 

[higgik]

One thing missing across the team is a sense of any leaders.
Just look to 2003 and there were so many players that could see where the game was going and change accordingly.

There are no leaders, especially in the backs no one saying when to go wide.

Greenwood and Tindall would have been going up to Youngs and Farrell to give them 'some of their mind', about the lack of ball and the lack of accuracy.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

One thing I want to know is, is the stupid kicking game plan a Eddie Jones one or a player one because they don't know what else to do?

Either way I blame the coaches who haven't given other options. I'm still seething after that performance, would love to give Jones a slap round the face and tell him to stop his arrogance and start being humble and coaching properly again.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

It's been too consistent over the last two international periods to not be by design

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

It's been too consistent over the last two international periods to not be by design

Yeah, game plan is all on Jones.

The dire execution of that game plan is on Youngs and Farrell.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Then Jones has to go I'm afraid. 2 years of the same mistakes and not changing anything. That's the definition of insanity, bin him off.

I think we go into the Italy match without any coaching or game plan. Let the players decide how to play, it couldn't be any worse.

 

[mkersyshull]

Never going to happen (and probably missed some obvious players). But my dream current match day squad (and ages)

1. Genge 25
2. Cowan-Dickie 27
3. Sinklar 27
4. J Hill 26
5. Itoje 26
6. Dombrandt 23
7. Underhill 24
8. S Simmonds 26
9. Spencer 28
10. J Simmonds 24
11. May 30
12. Lawrence 21
13. Slade 27
14. Nowel 27
15. Mallins 24

1. George 30
2. Mako 30
3. Stuart 24
4. Lawes 31
5. J Willis 24
6. Randel 23
7. Smith 21
8. Watson 26

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]