[2021 Rugby Championship] Round 2 (Bledisloe 3) Australia v New Zealand (5/9/2021)

[Bada-Bing!]

Very unselfish from Akira.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

They really need to pass kicking duties to McKenzie.

 

[Hydraulxx]

New Zealand are offside a lot but not getting blown for it... But then also the Aussies just love giving easy points away.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

This game isn't over. Game on.

 

[Hydraulxx]

Is that now 5-6 intercept tries given by the Aussies in 3 games?

 

[GoTheNaki]

I disagree on most parts. I think Papalii is almost a perfect foil for when Savea is at 8. Savea is a small 8 heck as atheletic as he is on the greater scheme of things he is a small loose forward and hes also not an elite defender like Cane is - Savea's focus is more on his ball carrying. Papalii is a bigger 7 who does have a more defensive focus. its a good balance to the pack with Cane out injured.

I like bower as a prospect, as far as props go it doesn't matter if they are starting or on the bench they are pretty much all equally critical. Looking at the balance of the front row I think its less about the best props start and more about who is the better option at various times in the game. IMO I think bower's starting has been more to do with his workload and intensity on defense. The all blacks are famously slow starters and tend to lose games when teams get ahead of us early and get just a bit too far ahead for us to chase run them down. I think he can be valuable to couter oposition forward packs looking to get through the advantage line in the first quater.

I agree Ioane is still a much better winger than midfielder, he has improved but if the WC was in the next year IMO he would not be ready. He has a lot to add as a ball carrier but has work to do as a defender and distributor.

One thing you are missing in your midfield argument is that first and foremost defense is critical and its also the primary reason Laumape never locked down an all black spot. His volume of work and accuracy on defense was always below the other contenders. With Crotty's exit we are left with one elite level midfield defender in ALB. The others need to lift their game.

I dont think Richie is clearly our best 10, he's had the position pretty much to himself this year and he's been able to build more consistency than we have seen from him in the past but then we haven't really played anyone. we have not seen him perform against anyone other than Aussie. not his fault, its covid's fault. While barrett has won a WC, proved himself against everyone and is a 2x IRB player of the year. The only real argument with BB is that his goal kicking has cost us a couple of games over the past few years. Going into the next WC he needs to fix that or simply be removed from kicking duty. Richie and DMac are kicking brilliantly. you can't say "Mo'unga is clearly our best 10" when he's the only one who's had a go and this comming game will be BB's first real chance to show where he is currently at.

I think you might have potentially a bit of recency bias there with Barrett... He typically scores when the match is already won, and that is what people remember(WC Final vs Aussie), couple other times... He started vs the B&I Lions, right? Do you remember him doing anything? I don't. Barrett has consistently been outplayed in the biggest games of his career. Outplayed by Sopoaga in the Final vs the Highlanders, he vanished and the Hurricanes lost. He vanished vs the Lions in the Final, only for him to score at the end, I think? Consistently outplayed and outshone by Mo'unga in Super Rugby. I think they met in a Semi-Final relatively recently... Barrett didn't do much. Yeah, you can talk about their team, but when the Hurricanes made those Finals, I'm fairly confident they were the favourites. Don't get me wrong, I thought the WORLD of Barrett, I thought the guy was that good that he was on to pass Dan Carter... But I really think he peaked in his Hurricane years, and I have seen some MASSIVE games from Mo'unga where he has essentially carried his team when they've needed him and played wicked playoff or finals rugby. Think one of those games was a knock-out game vs the Blues, he was electric. If we can get that Mo'unga for the All Blacks, man... But this is the first real season that he has been given a proper go, and he is doing pretty good, in a perfect world I'd like to see him play South Africa first, or England/Ireland, probably twice before I can even say much about anything.

 

[Kiwiwomble]

What did everyone think of the Red? And is it 20min sin bin now :O?! What..

Expected it to be red, nabura got a straight red a couple of years ago for the highlanders for doing something pretty similar, may feel harsh but it how the refs have been judging it In this way, seen a lot of comment about "accident" and "intent"…rightly or wrongly intent has been removed from these decisions…boot contact head? Yes=red

interestingly though, nabura got a ban as well from memory…will jordie?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

And Jordie didn't need to kick out his foot IMO, whatever his intent.

 

[Yulia]

And Jordie didn't need to kick out his foot IMO, whatever his intent.

Jesus,the ABs are unstoppable will win RWC 2023, no doubts

And Jordie didn't need to kick out his foot IMO

It's obvious he did it accidentally

 

[Zerobound]

Expected it to be red, nabura got a straight red a couple of years ago for the highlanders for doing something pretty similar, may feel harsh but it how the refs have been judging it In this way, seen a lot of comment about "accident" and "intent"…rightly or wrongly intent has been removed from these decisions…boot contact head? Yes=red

interestingly though, nabura got a ban as well from memory…will jordie?

You make a good point. It makes these decisions clear. At least you know what to expect. As long as it is consistent there should be no qualms.

My thoughts though, technique was questioned. It was poor, Barrett mistimed his jump that put him in that position. He overran it and ended up taking the ball on his shoulder rather than in the bread basket. He was committed and paid the price for misjudging his jump. I like that it was carded as a chaser can commit and misjudge his run and end up red carded. It makes for a fair contest if both players can potentially suffer the same fate.

Intent or accident? As quoted it doesn't matter in the eyes of the ref. I'm going with instinct though. Barrett put himself in a position where he needed to protect himself. There was a physical threat heading towards him. Therefore I think it was just a natural instinct to kick out.

Another interesting point, Foster had given Barrett a challenge this week. Basically to just keep his head in the game. Don't be overzealous etc.. I'm guessing he may have failed that one

 

[The Seeker]

I'm looking forward to New Zealand vs South Africa in Round 5. Australia and Argentina have been a snooze fest in this championship.

 

[kriptik]

.........
interestingly though, nabura got a ban as well from memory…will jordie?

Hopefully he will, be a stronger All Blacks side for it.

Don't recall Retallick giving away the usual dirty/dumb/cynical penalties that seem to be his forte, he's got to be worth 6 points a game to any opposition he's playing.

Foster should confine his comments to the game and the team instead of off field politics. He needs to raise above the off field agendas of others, it only makes him look weak petty and childish to smirk at a press conference whilst passing petty jabs.

 

[Umaga's Witness]

You make a good point. It makes these decisions clear. At least you know what to expect. As long as it is consistent there should be no qualms.

My thoughts though, technique was questioned. It was poor, Barrett mistimed his jump that put him in that position. He overran it and ended up taking the ball on his shoulder rather than in the bread basket. He was committed and paid the price for misjudging his jump. I like that it was carded as a chaser can commit and misjudge his run and end up red carded. It makes for a fair contest if both players can potentially suffer the same fate.

Intent or accident? As quoted it doesn't matter in the eyes of the ref. I'm going with instinct though. Barrett put himself in a position where he needed to protect himself. There was a physical threat heading towards him. Therefore I think it was just a natural instinct to kick out.

Another interesting point, Foster had given Barrett a challenge this week. Basically to just keep his head in the game. Don't be overzealous etc.. I'm guessing he may have failed that one

I dont agree that he was trying to protect himself, he was just trying to balance himself. If you watch it, you can clearly see his body in a backward angle until his foot goes out, at which point his body is in perfect balance, completely vertical.

I thought this was another interesting experiment with the laws, as the twenty minutes amounted to nothing for the wallabies. Should it be thirty?

I'm looking forward to New Zealand vs South Africa in Round 5. Australia and Argentina have been a snooze fest in this championship.

In what respect have australia been a snooze fest? You mean because they've been uncompetitive? Because they have at least managed to create opportunities and score tries, have played a lot with the ball.

Jesus,the ABs are unstoppable will win RWC 2023, no doubts


It's obvious he did it accidentally

I presume this is sarcastic?

hard to tell where the abs are at still, in this game they scored a lot from turnover opportunities that won't be provided by more risk averse teams at the top of their game. And the ease at which australia have made metres phase after phase, and scored tries, toward the end of the games this year has been a worry.

all blacks not creating a lot on their own accord, though that first try was awesome .

gotta love How jordan is always in the right place for opportunities.

an interesting debate on here about papalii being more of a six vs the need for his size to balance the trio. I think both points are true, though papalii has played well as a seven this year. You could actually achieve both objectives without changing the trio, just putting ardie at 7, papalii at 6, and akira at 8. The main reason they aren't doing that, IMO, is they want cane to be able to fit seemlessly back into the trio, and see akira at 6 and ardie at 8 as the rest of that trio. Another reason might be that they see seven as the role that does the least ball running in the wide channels and they want two players who can do that. Its not papaliis forte. Papalii can hit the ball up, but he rarely passes the ball. He's there to do the dirty work, including the dirty carries. But, yeah, he's a really good 6 on defence, and we are missing out on his awesome ability to hold players up on d in the closer channels.

 

[Yulia]

I presume this is sarcastic?

No,no, it's not sarcastic. I'm impressed by ABs every time I watch something with them, I can't imagine who can be better than they now at this level.. I'm sure they'll win next RWC (it's not that far after all),they can't regress too much during that short period of time

 

[Kiwiwomble]

sadly i think we can expect several changes for argentina, injuries to Savea and taylor as well as a possible ban for jordie, was really hoping we'd get a run f games with minimal changes and for 15mins there it looks like that might have largely been the team to do it

 

[Umaga's Witness]

No,no, it's not sarcastic. I'm impressed by ABs every time I watch something with them, I can't imagine who can be better than they now at this level.. I'm sure they'll win next RWC (it's not that far after all),they can't regress too much during that short period of time

This is just typical all blacks rugby, we saw similar and better at times prior to the last World Cup, but we didn't win that. And this game was against australia. Other teams wont give us turnover opportunities (especially at a World Cup), other teams will bombard us with high balls, have better defence, be better at the breakdown, challenge our scrum more. It might be that we play a team at the world cup who has spent a heap of time analysing us.

Also, the best team at the World Cup probably wont win the World Cup. Let's say the best team in the world is 79 per cent likely to beat any of the other top 8 teams in a one off game. That means it is less than 50 per cent likely they will win three games in a row against top eight sides.

the reason I wondered if you were sarcastic is that it's been pretty common over the years for people to exclaim the all blacks will win the World Cup after they have a typical all blacks style performance like this. Yet we dont win that many.

 

[NZbloke]

I disagree on most parts. I think Papalii is almost a perfect foil for when Savea is at 8. Savea is a small 8 heck as atheletic as he is on the greater scheme of things he is a small loose forward and hes also not an elite defender like Cane is - Savea's focus is more on his ball carrying. Papalii is a bigger 7 who does have a more defensive focus. its a good balance to the pack with Cane out injured.

I like bower as a prospect, as far as props go it doesn't matter if they are starting or on the bench they are pretty much all equally critical. Looking at the balance of the front row I think its less about the best props start and more about who is the better option at various times in the game. IMO I think bower's starting has been more to do with his workload and intensity on defense. The all blacks are famously slow starters and tend to lose games when teams get ahead of us early and get just a bit too far ahead for us to chase run them down. I think he can be valuable to couter oposition forward packs looking to get through the advantage line in the first quater.

I agree Ioane is still a much better winger than midfielder, he has improved but if the WC was in the next year IMO he would not be ready. He has a lot to add as a ball carrier but has work to do as a defender and distributor.

One thing you are missing in your midfield argument is that first and foremost defense is critical and its also the primary reason Laumape never locked down an all black spot. His volume of work and accuracy on defense was always below the other contenders. With Crotty's exit we are left with one elite level midfield defender in ALB. The others need to lift their game.

I dont think Richie is clearly our best 10, he's had the position pretty much to himself this year and he's been able to build more consistency than we have seen from him in the past but then we haven't really played anyone. we have not seen him perform against anyone other than Aussie. not his fault, its covid's fault. While barrett has won a WC, proved himself against everyone and is a 2x IRB player of the year. The only real argument with BB is that his goal kicking has cost us a couple of games over the past few years. Going into the next WC he needs to fix that or simply be removed from kicking duty. Richie and DMac are kicking brilliantly. you can't say "Mo'unga is clearly our best 10" when he's the only one who's had a go and this comming game will be BB's first real chance to show where he is currently at.

Disagree for reasons given, we need a flyer on the openside... got to be kidding, Savea is a very good defender, yeah he is one of the smaller loose forwards, the bloke is really strong though, he's proven that many a time with the way he uses his incredible leg dive to break through tackles.

Bower is a prospect though, it's about us starting our best props, which then gives us a better chance of dominating the oppositions scrum from the start, scrums are an excellent platform to attack from so lets make the most of it in that part of the game... all our props have good work rates & tackle well, also can skillfully execute one-handed offloads.

yeah, Rieko Ioane is definitely much better as a winger... have to use players in positions where you're going to get the very best value out of them, obviously for Ioane that is on the wing, he was outstanding in Perth making the most of his amazing pace.

Again I disagree, Laumape's defence & work rate was no worse that any of the other candidates, also has that all-round game on attack the other midfielders don't have... ABL's isn't that great in defence either, have seen him miss some pretty easy tackles at times.

Reckon Richie is definitely our best 10... in general his option taking under pressure is certainly much better than BB's who is prone to small brain explosions, intercept give away tries etc, have seen him play plenty of games for the Canes & AB's at 10 where he kicks the ball deep down the middle of the field directly to the opposition, which allows them plenty of time & space to counter attack from either side of the field, if he's going to kick the ball deep & keep in play you'd think he'd least have the good sense to punt the down the tramways or diagonally towards the sideline, that way they can only attack from one side of the field making it easier to defend against.

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Akira put in a great shift.

 

[NZbloke]

Akira is very fast for a big bloke & has always had really good skills... I suppose the only question mark over him was his work rate for the ABs, his work rate in his last two tests has been superb.

 

[NZbloke]

What did everyone think of the Red? And is it 20min sin bin now :O?! What..

Thought that red card was absolute nonsense, there was no intent or malice from JB & he was off balance in the air too... obviously some of the laws need to be looked at & adjusted so the right decisions can be made, that all depends on the situation.