2021 British & Irish Lions Squad

[TRF_Olyy]

Better question is "How bad was Mako vs South Africa" than "How good was he vs New Zealand", tbh

 

[Welsh Exile]

Better question is "How bad was Mako vs South Africa" than "How good was he vs New Zealand", tbh

Fair.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

But we weren't taking about the players overall ability (or perceived ability) we were talking about specific aspects of their game.

If we maintain that one of the most important jobs for a prop is scrummaging, and if we are using Young's as a comparison, then for a scrum half, service is as important to a 9 as scrummaging is to a prop.

Young's has not got terrible service. He may have other areas of his game that are weak but in terms of the basics he actually does that quite well and if he didn't he wouldn't have all those caps for England. Which is why I said it's a false equivalence as we were talking about Mako's scrummaging specifically not generally. If Young's service was poor (a 9s bread and butter) then I would've said he had a point bit imo the comparison didn't stack up.

Actually in many cases Youngs' service leaves a lot to be desired. He is genuinely awful when he has to pass the ball from a ruck in front of a player running at speed, more often than not he throws at the player rather than at space. I remember a game not long ago where roughly half of Youngs' passes were either low, high or behind the player causing them to have to check their runs and he often will simply not pass at all, so the player who expected the pass randomly crashes into the defence. The one area where I'd say Youngs has frequently been better than many of the alternatives is his box kicking.

 

[ncurd]

Actually in many cases Youngs' service leaves a lot to be desired. He is genuinely awful when he has to pass the ball from a ruck in front of a player running at speed, more often than not he throws at the player rather than at space. I remember a game not long ago where roughly half of Youngs' passes were either low, high or behind the player causing them to have to check their runs and he often will simply not pass at all, so the player who expected the pass randomly crashes into the defence. The one area where I'd say Youngs has frequently been better than many of the alternatives is his box kicking.

Yup when switched on he does give world class service but as time has gone on those occasions have decreased further and further. We might get a game per series where we see good Youngs but more often than not we get crap Youngs.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Actually in many cases Youngs' service leaves a lot to be desired. He is genuinely awful when he has to pass the ball from a ruck in front of a player running at speed, more often than not he throws at the player rather than at space. I remember a game not long ago where roughly half of Youngs' passes were either low, high or behind the player causing them to have to check their runs and he often will simply not pass at all, so the player who expected the pass randomly crashes into the defence. The one area where I'd say Youngs has frequently been better than many of the alternatives is his box kicking.

Yeah this is fair, but would you say his service is as bad as Mako's scrummaging?

All scrum halves service can go through poor patches from time to time. Maybe you could say the same about props and scrums but maybe that's a bit more of a push.

 

[Don't Skip Leg Day]

Youngs constantly messes up quick ball by passing at players heads or behind them.

Mako on top form wild start against Australia and maybe New Zealand but never against South Africa because of his poor scrummaging.

@Welsh Exile you keep saying you bow to our knowledge and yet you ignore what we say.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Yeah this is fair, but would you say his service is as bad as Mako's scrummaging?

All scrum halves service can go through poor patches from time to time. Maybe you could say the same about props and scrums but maybe that's a bit more of a push.

Mako's scrummaging will have varying impacts depending on the number of scrums and the quality of the opposition scrum, Youngs can have bad service any time and it affects all other aspects of our game. The difference is Youngs can offer excellent service but simply doesn't the majority of the time, Mako simply will never offer world class scrummaging.

 

[Welsh Exile]

Youngs constantly messes up quick ball by passing at players heads or behind them.

Mako on top form wild start against Australia and maybe New Zealand but never against South Africa because of his poor scrummaging.

@Welsh Exile you keep saying you bow to our knowledge and yet you ignore what we say.

Not ignoring what anyone is saying, some good points have been raised. This is the whole point of a discussion isn't it. Would be boring if we all agreed. I think we largely agree it's not a strength just disagree to what extent. I fully accept I could be way off but we won't know until the time comes and he's picked (if he's picked)

 

[Welsh Exile]

So, the refs have been announced:

Aussie Nic Berry will referee the first Test match, Kiwi Ben O'Keefe the second and Frenchman Mathieu Raynal gets what could be the all-important third Test

They've even given Wayne Barnes the matches against the Stormers and Bulls, apparently.

 

[Mumbles119]

So, the refs have been announced:

Aussie Nic Berry will referee the first Test match, Kiwi Ben O'Keefe the second and Frenchman Mathieu Raynal gets what could be the all-important third Test

They've even given Wayne Barnes the matches against the Stormers and Bulls, apparently.

 

[big ginger 8]

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Why?

 

[big ginger 8]

Why?

LCD and George not available at the moment apparently. Does suggest he's next off the rank though.

 

[Ferrari333SP]

First of many episodes

 

[dullonien]

Interesting, so they're going to release individual short videos of behind the scenes content instead of a full dvd release afterwards like previous tours.

Looking forward to it, should be great to see that behind the scenes stuff alongside the tour as it unfolds. Suppose they need to make sure they get it edited and out quickly to be 100% effective. No point the behind the scenes of the 1st test landing after the second test for example, because the context may have changed massively.

 

[Not Mike Brown's Sock]

Interesting, so they're going to release individual short videos of behind the scenes content instead of a full dvd release afterwards like previous tours.

Looking forward to it, should be great to see that behind the scenes stuff alongside the tour as it unfolds. Suppose they need to make sure they get it edited and out quickly to be 100% effective. No point the behind the scenes of the 1st test landing after the second test for example, because the context may have changed massively.

England have been doing it pretty well for a few years now

 

[Welsh Exile]

 

[Welsh Exile]

 

[TRF_Olyy]

View attachment 11195

Is that Rhys Webb on the right?

 

[Welsh Exile]

Is that Rhys Webb on the right?

He wishes.