[2016 Super Rugby] Chiefs vs. Force (Round 5) 26/03/2016

[Larksea]

went tot the game, first chiefs game in a while. 2nd half was obviously pretty epic.

would like to see a TV replay of the game though I wish I had recorded it...

Cruden & McKenzie together were creating havoc on attack.

McKenzie was absolutely devastating, everyone in was standing up when ever he got near the ball. The kid is on fire.
His kicking game was a bit off, he wasn't kicking badly but they were just missing....
Some of McKenzie's touch finders were very impressive, really good length on them for a small guy...
his tacking was also brilliant.
Cover defense and tackling were spot on.
High ball work was really good.

Cruden was really good to, operating a bit wider on attack as he usually does. I don't know exactly whos fault it was but it seemed the only area of the field the force made ground and line breaks constantly was n the 10 channel. Need to watch a replay to see what was happening there... Not something you can just pin on Cruden. But it is a big ask for a small guy like Cruden to tackle guys like Ben Tapuai & Semisi Masirewa front on.

Michael Leitch, was immense. Shame for us he plays for Japan. IMO he's NZ's best #8 right now...

I was also really impressed with Tom Sanders, guy has big shoes to fill. He looks like on of those guys who just plays his heart out.

Good to see beaver get on at the end, he actually did pretty well. Was a fast game though he was blowing pretty hard ha! I hope we get to see more of him.

Chiefs are in an amazing position considering how badly they have been hit by injuries.

Just an observation. I don't know how far away Dominic bird is suppose to be but seeing on the sidelines to me he looks out of shape. Even if his foot is almost ready he looks like he needs a few weeks of conditioning work.

As far as McKenzie goes with AB potential.

IMO hes without a doubt a special talent, that much has been obvious for a couple of years now. He's got ridiculous skills.
He's also a very unique type of player, given that he's so small and has ridiculous natural x-factor.
That actually makes him really difficult to accommodate in a really highly controlled high accuracy environment like the All Blacks. Sure hes got skills and weapons opposition teams will fear but he will also be a target.
A good comparison as an opposite would be Tom Taylor. You could throw Tom Taylor into a test match and you know he will execute the game plan, kick the goals, make the tackles and be handy on attack. Hes built like an outhouse and can take the knocks and tackle 110kg midfielders head on when he needs too. But hes not likely to blow a game open.
McKenzie is not so predictable, he has been a bit fragile in contact, he may not be as reliable as someone like Taylor but he could very well blow a game open and score/setup tries Taylor cant.
To me McKenzie is not a guy who would just slot into the All Blacks. Hes a guy you would have to Adjust your game around and even select other players around him to balance out the type of player he is.

 

[0tago]

@ Otago...if anything with McKenzie coming into All Blacks, Sopoaga will be falling even further down the pecking order...I like Sopoaga but I think like you say decision making isn't a strong suite and Ben Smith runs the Otago backline...
...don't think Cruden has hung up his boots as you say though, that's just delegation...and Hansen knows Cruden has a 100% winning record for all the games he's started for the ABs so don't expect short of injury for Cruden to be relinquishing the #1 spot...especially with the Chiefs leading the Super Rugby comp..

Yes Hansen is very loyal to injured players, they're always given a great chance to come back and attempt to re-solidify their spot which is really admirable of him and pays off in most cases, no one is ever written off. I suppose it's still early days to be making such assumptions on the peaking order, obviously come June we might be able to get some idea, but again against Wales I'm sure he will try combinations, but it feels so good in some ways for me, with the A.Smith-Sopoaga combination, who actually sets the backline offensively and Ben sets it defensively and counter attacking.

When Damien comes into the All Blacks, I'm expecting it to be at FB cover for Ben with the option of moving him to 10 if any of the boys are having a bad day, because I think Daggs days are number, he's too injury prone and on his way to getting over the hill, Ben and Damo and Barrett (cover) seem like the obvious FB choices and NMS when he's back to fitness can fill that role but is likely going to be stuck on the wing where he's simply world class, no one else is really in with a shout. Barrett will stay as the ultimate super sub at 10 and FB, while we build towards more stable starters.

I'm expecting a great battle between Cruden and Sopoaga and tactically Hansen & co will know how to use them accordingly. I still think Sopoaga has a superior kicking game to Cruden, so perhaps vs South Africa is much more valuable and if he's looking for stability and decision making he can turn to Crudes, definitely expecting both of them to get a lot of game time.

Ultimately we have a heap of options and combinations that are sure to be trialed and tested in the coming years, I'm so excited to see a lot of these in action, people bemoan all the leaders leaving, but I think it's such a great period for us discovering our depth and quality once again, reminds me of the 2012-2013 seasons.

 

[Larksea]

this is nothing like 2012, we haven't had a rebuild like this since 99 or 03? when the 95 stars started to move on. I think this is our biggest rebuild of the modern era. But we also have maybe the most depth ever in the modern era. So rather than it being about finding replacements its more about figuring out which the best replacement is from all the options available....

 

[0tago]

this is nothing like 2012, we haven't had a rebuild like this since 99 or 03? when the 95 stars started to move on. I think this is our biggest rebuild of the modern era. But we also have maybe the most depth ever in the modern era. So rather than it being about finding replacements its more about figuring out which the best replacement is from all the options available....

Exactly, which makes it exciting.

 

[Five Meters Out]

Cruden will be the starting 1st Five in the first Test vs Wales, provided he's fit. He will do the kicking. Barrett will be the utility and McKenzie will be in the non playing squad. Such is the way with the All Blacks.

 

[bazwaz]

@Otago...pretty safe to assume Hansen is going to go with someone with the most experience i.e 37 AB caps (280 pts) versus 1 AB cap (12points)...but it's great to have quality players as backup in case of injury..
...another reason I suggest that McKenzie will overtake Sopoaga in the pecking order though is due to his versatility...players need to be able to play more than one position like Barret and McKenzie ....a lock that can play loose forward is another example ie Luatua , Kaino....this increases their value tenfold when there can only ever be a finite number of subs on the bench...

 

[0tago]

@Otago...pretty safe to assume Hansen is going to go with someone with the most experience i.e 37 AB caps (280 pts) versus 1 AB cap (12points)...but it's great to have quality players as backup in case of injury..
...another reason I suggest that McKenzie will overtake Sopoaga in the pecking order though is due to his versatility...players need to be able to play more than one position like Barret and McKenzie ....a lock that can play loose forward is another example ie Luatua , Kaino....this increases their value tenfold when there can only ever be a finite number of subs on the bench...

That sounds good and accurate, but I'm going out on limb for Sopoaga here, because I'm sure he will get plenty of game time. Definitely not undermining what Crudes has done for the black jersey, he's been great bar his goal kicking and tactical kicking. Sopoaga comes in as a near complete 10, something which we have lacked other than of course Carter. Cruden is not the complete 10, no matter which way you argue it, as much as I value him, his ball in hand attacking game is better than Sopoaga's, but Sopoaga's kicking game is far better than Crudens, so the versatility we have there is staggering. It's definitely a tactical battle on what we need on the day.

Only time and tests can tell, but nothing at this point is written in concrete, but for the sake of AB footy, it's a great "rivalry" that can only increase our depth.

 

[smartcooky]

would like to see a TV replay of the game though I wish I had recorded it...

Full Replay 7:30 PM tonight on The Rugby Channel.

Chiefs are in an amazing position considering how badly they have been hit by injuries.

Not to mention over 30,000km of air travel in the last two weeks. It somewhat puts to rest the claims about what a disadvantage the travel is!

 

[TRF Mr Fish]

That sounds good and accurate, but I'm going out on limb for Sopoaga here, because I'm sure he will get plenty of game time. Definitely not undermining what Crudes has done for the black jersey, he's been great bar his goal kicking and tactical kicking. Sopoaga comes in as a near complete 10, something which we have lacked other than of course Carter. Cruden is not the complete 10, no matter which way you argue it, as much as I value him, his ball in hand attacking game is better than Sopoaga's, but Sopoaga's kicking game is far better than Crudens, so the versatility we have there is staggering. It's definitely a tactical battle on what we need on the day.

Only time and tests can tell, but nothing at this point is written in concrete, but for the sake of AB footy, it's a great "rivalry" that can only increase our depth.

Whilst I agree that Sopoaga is a better goal kicker, I think Cruden is a better tactical kicker than Sopoaga is.

Not to mention over 30,000km of air travel in the last two weeks. It somewhat puts to rest the claims about what a disadvantage the travel is!

To be fair, the Chiefs have have faced two of the worst teams in the competition in the last 3 weeks.

 

[bazwaz]

@ Otago...ok good for you backing your 10 but don't be too disappointed if he doesn't even make the team...he'll be getting some good offers from NH clubs though so my prediction is Sopoaga will end up playing for somewhere like Toulon after a frustrating length of time waiting in the AB wings twiddling his thumbs..

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To be fair, the Chiefs have have faced two of the worst teams in the competition in the last 3 weeks.

Like the Argentinian Puma team currently ranked sixth in the world for example..

 

[austingtir]

Lots of overrating the Chiefs performance going on this thread. Just the way I like it so you lot can come down to earth with a thud as soon as the Chiefs have to play a team that:
A actually turns up. B Has a decent forward pack.

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Whilst I agree that Sopoaga is a better goal kicker, I think Cruden is a better tactical kicker than Sopoaga is
To be fair, the Chiefs have have faced two of the worst teams in the competition in the last 3 weeks.

I also think Cruden is better tactically (but only because of his experience advantage and test match maturity) I think Lima has the potential to be better than Cruden. Lima's been showing some pretty mad skills kicking wise so far this season weather its in play or just kicking for goal. I think Limas off the cuff kicking is the best in the comp for instance. But Cruden trounces him in situational awareness.

Hansen is mad if he roles Barrett out as the second choice this year imo. Barrett is third rate he's improved 0% since becoming an allblack at guiding a team around the park. He's got speed and luck on his side thats about it.

 

[bazwaz]

...good point austingtir...it' s all about leadership at 10...Where on a rugby field is inspiring leadership more critical and influential to a team than at first-five? As the pivot, the whole game literally revolves around them. They're the brains, the tacticians, the decision makers who control the game...

...that's another point I missed before that gives Cruden the advantage over all the other 10s...He is a natural-born leader. He captained the New Zealand under-20s team to victory at the 2011 Junior RWC , captained the Manawatu at a very young age.... captains for the Chiefs and part of the AB leadership....

...whereas in the Landers set up isn't Ben Smith calling all the shots???

 

[0tago]

...good point austingtir...it' s all about leadership at 10...Where on a rugby field is inspiring leadership more critical and influential to a team than at first-five? As the pivot, the whole game literally revolves around them. They're the brains, the tacticians, the decision makers who control the game...

...that's another point I missed before that gives Cruden the advantage over all the other 10s...He is a natural-born leader. He captained the New Zealand under-20s team to victory at the 2011 Junior RWC , captained the Manawatu at a very young age.... captains for the Chiefs and part of the AB leadership....

...whereas in the Landers set up isn't Ben Smith calling all the shots???

He just made the same points as I did, but worded it differently.

 

[Five Meters Out]

A couple of pertinent points
1. The Force were very very bad last Saturday.
2. It's very early in the season. Of the three backs starring for the Chiefs - Cruden, McKenzie and Ngatai - none were at the World Cup late last season. All three have much to play for, are fresh and are very motivated. Many players who were at the World Cup are playing like they're still on holiday. Barrett and Savea most notably. Others are injured.

 

[nzlizard]

Like the Argentinian Puma team currently ranked sixth in the world for example..

I think he was talking about the kings and the force dude, just requires a bit of thinking before you type.

 

[0tago]

Still waiting for someone to tell me who's going to kick goals if Sopoaga isn't selected or playing. This Bazwaz idiot doesn't even seem to think he will make the squad, do you even watch the Highlanders Baz?

 

[TRF_heineken]

Still waiting for someone to tell me who's going to kick goals if Sopoaga isn't selected or playing. This Bazwaz idiot doesn't even seem to think he will make the squad, do you even watch the Highlanders Baz?

No need for name calling. Keep it civil.

 

[0tago]

No need for name calling. Keep it civil.

You mean keep it PC? Calling someone an idiot is hardly uncivil, especially when what he's saying is idiotic.

 

[saulan]

You mean keep it PC? Calling someone an idiot is hardly uncivil, especially when what he's saying is idiotic.

He has a differing opinion to you, that does not make his comments idiotic. We are here to discuss our interest in rugby, calling someone an idiot because he disagrees with you is not necessary.

 

[0tago]

He has a differing opinion to you, that does not make his comments idiotic. We are here to discuss our interest in rugby, calling someone an idiot because he disagrees with you is not necessary.

There's something called abusing the right to an opinion or being antagonizing.