[2016 Super Rugby] Blues vs. Jaguares (Round 6) 02/04/2016

[TRF_heineken]

Venue: QBE Stadium
Time: 08:35 CAT (SA, GMT+2)​

 

[Jaguares]

Jaguares starting XV for the Blues test:

1- Roberto Tejerizo
2- Julián Montoya
3- Ramiro Herrera
4- Guido Petti
5- Tomás Lavanini
6- Tomás Lezana
7- Rodrigo Báez
8- Leonardo Senatore
9- Martín Landajo (c)
10- Santiago González Iglesias
11- Manuel Montero
12- Jerónimo de la Fuente
13- Matías Moroni
14- Emiliano Boffelli
15- Ramiro Moyano

Reserves:

16- Facundo Bosch
17- Santiago García Botta
18- Enrique Pieretto
19- Juan Cruz Guillemaín
20- Pablo Matera
21- Gonzalo Bertranou
22- Nicolás Sánchez
23- Joaquín Paz

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

So the Jaguares' response to not winning a game since week 1 where they just got passed the weakest SA team (I don't count the Kings) is resting key players in a game they should/could target to win? The Blues might be the weakest NZ side but at home you probably don't want to fight them with an arm tied behind your back.

I can only guess they have some sort of deal with the AUR regarding max games in a row for internationals like the SA teams do?

 

[Adakins]

Maybe they are targeting their next game against the Hurricanes so give some of the key guys a break before that game, since this game wont be so hard.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

LOL, if that's what they're doing they very well might end up losing both. Or they could win both, I wouldn't know I've found them so hard to predict.

 

[0tago]

S
I can only guess they have some sort of deal with the AUR regarding max games in a row for internationals like the SA teams do?

It has to be the case. Either that or they're so *****ed off with the performance of some of their players last week, which is also plausible. Sanchez had a very bad game.

 

[Jaguares]

So the Jaguares' response to not winning a game since week 1 where they just got passed the weakest SA team (I don't count the Kings) is resting key players in a game they should/could target to win? The Blues might be the weakest NZ side but at home you probably don't want to fight them with an arm tied behind your back.

I can only guess they have some sort of deal with the AUR regarding max games in a row for internationals like the SA teams do?

There will be 2 squads for this tour. One squad for the first 2 games and other for the last 2. The guys have been almost 40 days in South Africa, then in May they will have another South African tour and for TRC, they will travel to SA, NZ and OZ. And then the november's window in Europe. Too much travel for those 40 players.

The rotation has been planned before the season. So the rotation is already done, it doesn't matter the results. The staff has a plan, and they will respect it.

After the first 2 games in NZ, 10 players are going to home and another 10 players will join the squad for the last game in NZ and to travel to Japan.

The players said that in SA they traveled thousands of times because for any flight in SA, you have to make a stopover in Johannesburg, because there are no direct flights between cities there. So the journey has been very very hard, according to the testimony of the players.

I don't know whose are the players yet but I agree with the rotation. In this case is neccesary.

 

[Bruno_ARG]

I think that's the best starting XV possible (except for the absence of Matera maybe), since Cordero won't be available because of the car accident that he had. I'm glad to see Herrera, Montero, Baez, Petti and Moroni in the starting line up. About Sanchez, considering the horrible game he had past weekend I'm actually glad to see Gonzalez Iglesias on his natural position for a change.

 

[Adakins]

The rotation has been planned before the season. So the rotation is already done, it doesn't matter the results. The staff has a plan, and they will respect it.

Well then that makes sense, I really hope they have a good game and get some confidence.

 

[Jaguares]

I think that's the best starting XV possible (except for the absence of Matera maybe), since Cordero won't be available because of the car accident that he had. I'm glad to see Herrera, Montero, Baez, Petti and Moroni in the starting line up. About Sanchez, considering the horrible game he had past weekend I'm actually glad to see Gonzalez Iglesias on his natural position for a change.

Well, the current status of Montero is unknown. We'll see what happens with him

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Can't throw a pi.ss up at a brewery...

So the Jaguares' response to not winning a game since week 1 where they just got passed the weakest SA team (I don't count the Kings) is resting key players in a game they should/could target to win?

In a nutshell, yes.

LOL, if that's what they're doing they very well might end up losing both.

That might very well be the case.

The rotation has been planned before the season. So the rotation is already done, it doesn't matter the results. The staff has a plan, and they will respect it.

Well then that makes sense, I really hope they have a good game and get some confidence.

I've heard the same thing as Jaguares (user), and i think it's plain dumb. It's like tying your bloody hands before going into a fight.
Yes, have a plan of course, but plans need to be adjusted during the course of the season, hell, even during the course of a game.
You lose games you didn't expect to, you get injuries, you (might) win someone you expected to lose, but you need to have the ability to adjust your strategy and line up to the situation you are up against.

I know transitivity doesn't always work in rugby, but hear me out:

We lose to the Sharks (in RSA), full squad, no excuses.
The Crusaders beat the Sharks (comfortably i might add, in RSA).
Allow me to asume the Crusaders > Blues.
What do we do?
We save players against a team we actually stand a chance against, to use them against a team that, at least on paper, we probably do not.

And i know, things could work out, but the risk is simply astronomical. We are risking (relatively) easy points in order to go for harder points. What Jaguares needs, right here right now, is a win and their best shot is against the Blues.
We can sugar coat any way we want, but this comes down to reducing our chances of winning a single game in NZ.

I honestly, sincerely want to be wrong on this one.

Saving players against the blues to use them against the Crusaders is like avoiding a low hanging fruit in order to stretch yourself and try to get another one which might not be within reach. Add the fact that the fruits in question are all worth the same amount of points.

 

[0tago]

To be fair the Jags have had the hard end of the stick in the draw. Compare their draw to the Sunwolves, it's ridiculous.

The Sunwolves don't even play an NZ team let alone tour NZ, the hardest fixture they get all season is the bloody Brumbies.

Jags have their first two home games against 2 of last years play-off teams and a side that has won the competition twice in the last 5 years and to their credit, they nearly won both and then after that they're greeted with an NZ tour after touring SA only a few weeks prior to that.

It's BS. If the draws were reversed for the Sunwolves and Jags, the Jags would be sitting top of their conference.

 

[FNS]

Sadly after a few matches the team is starting to stretch to thin in some positions at least . This probably will be a bad year in results but a good year to form players.

My concern is how tired they will be for 4N and Nov-Dic window.

 

[unrated]

The players said that in SA they traveled thousands of times because for any flight in SA, you have to make a stopover in Johannesburg, because there are no direct flights between cities there. So the journey has been very very hard, according to the testimony of the players.

No that's simply not true. There are direct flights between all our major cities. When they flew from Argentina they had to choose between Johannesburg, Cape Town or Durban. Chances are 95% that they chose Johannesburg from there they could have had a short 2 hour flight to Bloemfontein to play the cheetahs and on the monday after the game they could have boarded a short hour and a half flight to Durban. I know Super rugby sides in South Africa willingly choose to travel by bus between some cities so its likely the Jags did the same between Bloemfontein and Durban. If they did travel like you say they did then i just cant understand the logic of flying to Johannesburg every time.

 

[Jaguares]

No that's simply not true. There are direct flights between all our major cities. When they flew from Argentina they had to choose between Johannesburg, Cape Town or Durban. Chances are 95% that they chose Johannesburg from there they could have had a short 2 hour flight to Bloemfontein to play the cheetahs and on the monday after the game they could have boarded a short hour and a half flight to Durban. I know Super rugby sides in South Africa willingly choose to travel by bus between some cities so its likely the Jags did the same between Bloemfontein and Durban. If they did travel like you say they did then i just cant understand the logic of flying to Johannesburg every time.

I don't know. I'm not an international agent travel. Martin Landajo said it, they played 4 games in SA (2 pre-season games)

 

[Jaguares]

Blues starting XV to face the Jaguares:

1 Nic Mayhew
2 James Parsons (c)
3 Charlie Faumuina
4 Patrick Tuipulotu
5 Josh Bekhuis
6 Joe Edwards
7 Blake Gibson
8 Steven Luatua
9 Bryn Hall
10 Ihaia West
11 Tevita Li
12 Piers Francis
13 Rene Ranger
14 Rieko Ioane
15 Lolagi Visinia

Reserves:

16 Quentin MacDonald, 17 Sam Prattley, 18 Ofa Tu’ungafasi, 19 Hoani Matenga, 20 Akira Ioane, 21 Billy Guyton, 22 Matt McGahan, 23 George Moala

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

There will be 2 squads for this tour. One squad for the first 2 games and other for the last 2. The guys have been almost 40 days in South Africa, then in May they will have another South African tour and for TRC, they will travel to SA, NZ and OZ. And then the november's window in Europe. Too much travel for those 40 players.

The rotation has been planned before the season. So the rotation is already done, it doesn't matter the results. The staff has a plan, and they will respect it.

After the first 2 games in NZ, 10 players are going to home and another 10 players will join the squad for the last game in NZ and to travel to Japan.

The players said that in SA they traveled thousands of times because for any flight in SA, you have to make a stopover in Johannesburg, because there are no direct flights between cities there. So the journey has been very very hard, according to the testimony of the players.

I don't know whose are the players yet but I agree with the rotation. In this case is neccesary.

I don't know. I'm not an international agent travel. Martin Landajo said it, they played 4 games in SA (2 pre-season games)

You can fly between all major cities in SA. Hell, I even fly to George on the odd occasion but for the smaller cities you won't get a Boeing though but a sports team, its baggage and support staff easy.
Landajo doesn't know what he's talking about (that or the staff don't and instructed him incorrectly).

Travel is a huge factor in SR but its the case for SA teams as well. Take the Stormers for instance (and we have a good draw by and large); we also have a whole host of these supposedly insurmountable fixtures (travel-wise) within SA, then we're off to Argentina, back to SA then off to Aussie, back to SA where we have a number of games then probably off again to NZ for a semi and a final (I hope). On top of that there is internationals for our sides as well.

I am of course not suggesting player rest isn't important but surely you look at the situation and adapt according to merit? Would postponing player rest by 1 week really break those players physically? If you are planning rest then I'd just have left them at home to properly rest the additional week as well. Little point in resting 1 week but still having all the travel or do I have the schedule wrong.. (edit; yeah, seems like it). Still, I'd almost feel that if I were Creevy and I've had a frustrating time it would be unbarable to have to 'sit one out' and one that is probably well (or at least the most likely of the NZ teams going on form) within the Jaguares reach.

Like I said it might pay off but its certainly not 'playing the odds' in terms of the current 'landscape' of the tournament.

 

[TRF_heineken]

You can fly between all major cities in SA. Hell, I even fly to George on the odd occasion but for the smaller cities you won't get a Boeing though but a sports team, its baggage and support staff easy.
Landajo doesn't know what he's talking about (that or the staff don't and instructed him incorrectly).

Travel is a huge factor in SR but its the case for SA teams as well. Take the Stormers for instance (and we have a good draw by and large); we also have a whole host of these supposedly insurmountable fixtures (travel-wise) within SA, then we're off to Argentina, back to SA then off to Aussie, back to SA where we have a number of games then probably off again to NZ for a semi and a final (I hope). On top of that there is internationals for our sides as well.

I am of course not suggesting player rest isn't important but surely you look at the situation and adapt according to merit? Would postponing player rest by 1 week really break those players physically? If you are planning rest then I'd just have left them at home to properly rest the additional week as well. Little point in resting 1 week but still having all the travel or do I have the schedule wrong.. (edit; yeah, seems like it). Still, I'd almost feel that if I were Creevy and I've had a frustrating time it would be unbarable to have to 'sit one out' and one that is probably well (or at least the most likely of the NZ teams going on form) within the Jaguares reach.

Like I said it might pay off but its certainly not 'playing the odds' in terms of the current 'landscape' of the tournament.

What I can't understand is why didn't the Jaguares get someone from SA to assist them, My brother's university roommate always assists the Argentine National team when they travel to SA, why don't they get him for the Jaguares as well. The guy is fluent in Spanish, Portuguese, French and Italian along with the SA languages.

Hell you can now fly from Polokwane to all the major cities with regional airports in the Country. You can even fly to Namibia, Botswana and Zimbabwe from here... And that says a lot!!

 

[0tago]

Blues starting XV to face the Jaguares:

1 Nic Mayhew
2 James Parsons (c)
3 Charlie Faumuina
4 Patrick Tuipulotu
5 Josh Bekhuis
6 Joe Edwards
7 Blake Gibson
8 Steven Luatua
9 Bryn Hall
10 Ihaia West
11 Tevita Li
12 Piers Francis
13 Rene Ranger
14 Rieko Ioane
15 Lolagi Visinia

Reserves:

16 Quentin MacDonald, 17 Sam Prattley, 18 Ofa Tu'ungafasi, 19 Hoani Matenga, 20 Akira Ioane, 21 Billy Guyton, 22 Matt McGahan, 23 George Moala

Wow ok.

Piers Francis gets a start who was pretty decent defensively under Tana for Counties, he must be really unimpressed with Moala's defensive efforts this season, as I said in another thread, he's tackling at under 70%, not good enough. Piers Francis is a 10 naturally as well, he played there for Counties.. this should be interesting.

But I don't see the point in not starting Ioane.. He's been decent on attack and defense.. His work rate has been good and Edwards has only has 60 minutes of rugby all season. Odd.

Dunno who will win this, with the huge rotation for the Jags as well, could either breathe life into them or cause confusion and lack cohesion. If they can make a few things stick, I definitely think they have more than a chance vs this Blues line up.

 

[austingtir]

If the Jaguars ever work out how to accumulate points (and generally not make dumb decisions) when they are in the opposition 22 then look out they are going to be tough to beat.