[2015 RWC] Warm Up Match: Wales vs Ireland (08/08/2015)

[bw245]

Strongly disagree there Snoopy. I thought Jackson was playing to clear instructions to turn the Welsh as much as he could early on, which he did, and he put in a lot of great contestable kicks. Some of his later kicks were overcooked, but then the chase seemed to vanish as well. I thought he did his job well enough - gave his runners good ball and generally moved the team around. Goal kicking was a little annoying - should have got the first one but wasn't concentrating - but most kickers will miss plenty from out by the touchline.

More to the point, no one who can avoid it goes to the World Cup with only two fly-halves. If Jackson really stinks the place up, he might lose out to Keatley *and* Madigan, but that would be pretty surprising to me. He didn't nail his chance, but I thought he was fine, and frankly he's a lot closer to an international fly-half than either Keatley or Madigan. I cannot disagree strongly enough with the idea that game management is an area of concern for Jackson so you take Madigan; it just completely blows my mind.

Personally I was more disappointed with Henderson, who I thought never really got going. Maybe more interested in preserving himself than trying to force his way into the 23.

I'd also take marks off of Murphy and TOD for getting greedy at the breakdown second half and being undisciplined enough to let Wales back in - Henry too. Far more impressed with Heaslip than either.

Very impressed with Zebo though.

Henderson and Ryan were quiet but they did well I thought.

 

[bw245]

Update from Schmidt: Trimble (foot strain) expected to be on the field soon; O'Donnell (hip) very uncertain; will know more in 24 hours, re Schmidt

Gatland has said Ireland didn't play much rugby and benefited from Wales' mistakes. He also said he'll concentrate more on the rugby next time. Good plan, Gats.

 

[snoopy snoopy dog dog]

I cannot disagree strongly enough with the idea that game management is an area of concern for Jackson so you take Madigan; it just completely blows my mind.

I think you've misinterpreted me. I meant game management is Madigan's main weakness.

My issue with Jackson is that poor kicking displays are far too frequent for him. His goal kicking stats are abysmal for a top level player. I don't see him taking charge of a backline. Today, Eoin Reddan was clearly the dominant half back. For Ulster, Ruan Pienaar always takes charge. Jackson's contestable up and under were fine. His pressure relieving kicks were inaccurate often going straight to the defending winger or ending up too far away from the touchline thus helping Wales set up counter attacks if they wanted to.

I think a decision needs to be made with him. Four years ago Luke Fitzgerald and Tomas O'Leary drastically underperformed in the warm ups and missed out on World Cup selection. It was the correct call in each instance. If it were me (and thankfully for all concerned it isn't), Paddy Jackson's performances over a prolonged period are of concern and need monitoring.

More to the point, no one who can avoid it goes to the World Cup with only two fly-halves.

In 2007, Ireland did just that. Ronan O'Gara and Paddy Wallace were the only 10s selected. It's inarguable that Ireland underperformed at that tournament but it doesn't hide the fact that they didn't waste a spot on an undeserving 3rd choice 10. In 1999, they did the same with just Eric Elwood and David Humphreys selected. The 2001 hosts New Zealand selected just two flyhalves Dan Carter and Colin Slade and called up replacements when necessary. 2003 hosts Austrlia selected just Stephen Larkham and Elton Flatley.

Given the World Cup is taking place just a one hour flight or less from here (like in 1999 and 2007), it's possible that only two flyhalves will go. It's not like 2003 or 2011 when an emergency situation would see a player having to endure 24 hours of travel and jetlag issues to make it to camp.

EDIT - Correction: Matt Giteau also went to the 2003 World Cup for Australia making it three players in their squad who could play 10.

 

[Peat]

I very much did misinterpret you on that score.

Jackson's goalkicking weakness is overstated. He was on a 75pc success rate in his last 5 Irish internationals - not ideal, but not abysmal. His kicking percentage for Ulster is 82pc (according to stat bunker), which is fine.

What prolonged period are we talking about here? Last season, when he was playing the rugby of his life either side of that dislocated elbow? His last Ireland performances, when he generally made an impact off the bench?

And NZ 2011 had Weepu who could fly-half in the squad. Matt Giteau was in the 2003 squad. And I'd love to hear what actual international fly-halfs Ireland ignored in 2007 and 1999, because if Paddy Wallace was going as a 10 in 2007 and there was an international fly-half knocking around, someone was being cheated!

So... basically, yeah, disagreeing with you on pretty much everything.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Thought Anscombe outperformed Hook - would be interesting to see what he could do in more of a 1st choice side.

The game did reiterate to me, though, just how much of a mire Wales are going to be in if they can't continue to field a giant backline under Gatland.

 

[dullonien]

I feel sorry for some of the players in the Welsh backrow and backline, because they were under pressure all game behind a struggling front 5. Difficult to properly stake a claim on the back foot. A few managed to show some glimpses, but without the ball it was tough going.

Francis should have started because he's the strongest scrummaging tighthead available, and maybe that could have given us a platform to enable the rest of the pack and the backline to compete.

In hindsight Gatland probably should have started a few more first team players, or at least had them on the bench.

This is what I thought of the Welsh players' performances:

01 Nicky Smith : I'm a big fan of Smith, but it's perhaps a bit early for him atm. Busy early on, but seemed to struggle in the scrum.
02 Richard Hibbard : started quite well, with some trademark big hits and solid lineouts on our own line. Poor decision to pick and go with no support midway through the first half. Lineout also faltered when we were pressing. Fatal error leading to an Ireland try.
03 Aaron Jarvis : really struggled scrum time, which is a big worry as he's likely got a part to play in the WC. Not that prominent in the loose either.
04 Jake Ball : seemed a little quiet to me. Some good carrying work in the first half, but didn't appear as busy as he usually is.
05 Dominic Day : mixed bag I thought. Prominent in the lineout, and offered himself in the loose. A few costly handling errors though.
06 Ross Moriarty : another mixed bag performance. Some strong carrying was offset by some handling errors, a yellow card, and a lack of work in the tight.
07 Justin Tipuric : tough day at the office in terms of breakdown, but it's always tough for opensides when they're on the backfoot all day. Had a hand in 2 try's though, really showing his class for his.
08 Dan Baker : another who started brightly with some decent carries, but similar to Moriarty, he probably didn't offer enough in the tight. Could be offset if there was a hard working 6 alongside him, but was replaced early with Faletau who made an impact I thought.

09 Mike Phillips : started brightly, with some good clearing box kicks. Struggled behind a retreating pack, but also looked a little slow. At fault for Cave's try? Seemed to drift out far too early, leaving a big hole down the middle for a soft try.
10 James Hook : very mixed, as has become the norm from Hook really. Some nice touches, but some glaring mistakes too. Difficult for him behind a beaten pack, but didn't help himself with some wayward kicking out of hand, heaping pressure back on Wales at times. Also at fault for Earl's try, putting Walker in a world of trouble with a man and ball pass.
11 Eli Walker : busy all night, really looking for work. Did some nice things, some not so nice! I feel he's still regaining form after his injury woes.
12 Scott Williams : really didn't impress me today. Some basic errors, and was part of some lackluster midfield defense.
13 Tyler Morgan : too early yet, but showed glimpses of what he may be capable of in a couple of years time. Needs to work on his defense and cut out the mistakes.
14 Alex Cuthbert : Played as he has done for most of last season. Wasn't half as prominent as Walker, even before his switch to center.
15 Hallam Amos : Looked threatening with ball in hand. Put under early aerial pressure where he struggled, but generally a decent showing from the young man.

16 Rob Evans : made an impact when he came on, really carried well. The scrum was still under pressure though.
17 Kristian Dacey : decent first cap, looked busy and didn't let anyone down. Doubt he's done enough to make the squad though.
18 Scott Andrews : much of a muchness to Jarvis really. A little more in the loose, but another shaky scrummager.
19 James King : came on at second row, not in his preferred blindside position. Went ok, but didn't have a big impact on the game.
20 Taulupe Faletau : helped a little, but still playing on the backfoot. Some good carries. Still easily our first choice.
21 Lloyd Williams : helped speed up the game with far more zip than Phillips. Had to deal with poor ball most of the time with Ireland managing to disrupt Welsh ruck ball all night.
22 Gareth Anscombe : this was the first time watching Anscombe that I thought he looked international quality. Thought he had a big positive impact, directing play well with some good distribution, and varied his play with some good running. Lovely pass to find Cuthbert at the death. Outplayed Hook.
23 Matthew Morgan : looked like the most dangerous Welsh player after coming on, but his performance was also riddled with mistakes. Probably tried to push things a little too much, which was maybe understandable given the scoreline. If he get's another chance, he needs to show he can also play in a more measured way.

In summary, those who I thought improved their chances of a squad place: Tipuric, Walker (just), Amos, Evans, Faletau, Lloyd Williams, Anscombe, Matthew Morgan (just).

Those who I thought reduced their chances: Hibbard, Jarvis (who else though), Phillips, Hook, Scott Williams (again, who else), Cuthbert.

The rest probably stayed about the same. I'm undecided about Moriarty, tempted to put him in the negative pile, but I've retained that for the more experienced players who should have been the ones lifting the side.

 

[Feicarsinn]

I feel sorry for some of the players in the Welsh backrow and backline, because they were under pressure all game behind a struggling front 5. Difficult to properly stake a claim on the back foot. A few managed to show some glimpses, but without the ball it was tough going.

Francis should have started because he's the strongest scrummaging tighthead available, and maybe that could have given us a platform to enable the rest of the pack and the backline to compete.

In hindsight Gatland probably should have started a few more first team players, or at least had them on the bench.

At least now is the time to be getting these sort of errors out of the way

 

[Tony Manx]

At least now is the time to be getting these sort of errors out of the way

Yes that is true but by players who, in the main, will not be first up selections!

Really, really do not understand what you gain from these pre match friendlies. In the past they were a judge if fitness but that is judged these days fir these players hourly!

 

[Peat]

Well, if nothing else it earns money...

... and it also tells Gatland he needs to coach his reserves how to defend a blindside. Looking back, that was pretty woeful from Wales.

 

[munstermuffin]

Yes that is true but by players who, in the main, will not be first up selections!

Really, really do not understand what you gain from these pre match friendlies. In the past they were a judge if fitness but that is judged these days fir these players hourly!

What it gains is your first XV will not play every pool game and teams need to know who to put in while still being able to get BP vs weaker teams.

 

[valley commando]

Of the Welsh backs Anscombe did ok when he came on, Amos did enough to make the squad as did Walker, the rest of the backs were abysmal apart from Morgan who I doubt Gats will include.
Of the forwards Tips was outstanding, Toby was good when he came on and Dacey had a good start, the scrum improved slightly and his line out throwing is better than Hibbo.

We struggled in the centre Scott W had a terrible game and bizarrely the best centre Wales had was Tips who looks a natural with ball in hand, would anyone else like to see him partner Roberts ?, I know it won't happen but what if .............

 

[AzaMatt]

well that match was hard to watch, i know the result doesnt matter but as people have pointed out, it really does show how little strength in depth we have in some positions. on the 29th i think we'll see the more established side come out, with a sprinkle of that team (still expect s.williams and morgan in centres to see how they play behind a hopefully stronger pack). if anymore of our centres get injured we could be in trouble though, perhaps tipuric should consider switching to a centre?

 

[MojoPin]

Of the Welsh backs Anscombe did ok when he came on, Amos did enough to make the squad as did Walker, the rest of the backs were abysmal apart from Morgan who I doubt Gats will include.
Of the forwards Tips was outstanding, Toby was good when he came on and Dacey had a good start, the scrum improved slightly and his line out throwing is better than Hibbo.

We struggled in the centre Scott W had a terrible game and bizarrely the best centre Wales had was Tips who looks a natural with ball in hand, would anyone else like to see him partner Roberts ?, I know it won't happen but what if .............

Been saying this about Tipuric for a while now. He's clearly got the ability and pace to play centre - his passing was a rare highlight in an otherwise dire game. Plus he's very good in the breakdown and certainly tough enough to match anyone running down his channel. With the shortage we have I think he's got to be an option. Granted this means no backup for when Lydiate leaves the field, but Moriarty looks like he could improve enough to earn a place on the bench - not to mention James King or even a call-up for Navidi...

 

[AzaMatt]

Been saying this about Tipuric for a while now. He's clearly got the ability and pace to play centre - his passing was a rare highlight in an otherwise dire game. Plus he's very good in the breakdown and certainly tough enough to match anyone running down his channel. With the shortage we have I think he's got to be an option. Granted this means no backup for when Lydiate leaves the field, but Moriarty looks like he could improve enough to earn a place on the bench - not to mention James King or even a call-up for Navidi...

i dont think he'll call anyone else up otherwise the training camps would have been pointless as the called up player/players wont have been through all the hard coniditoning work the others have. I was gutted Navidi didnt get the call up originally though.

 

[Insaneo]

Can clearly see Ireland going all the way in the RWC, Dark horse.

 

[ratsapprentice]

Wales since new scrum laws:
Hibbard at #2: Own Ball Won 78% Penalties W/L -8
Someone else at #2: Own Ball Won 88% Penalties W/L 7

Interdasting - pretty damning tbh