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[2014 ITM Cup] Round 3

Forgive me if I'm wrong, but the odds are based primarily on team form as well as history between the two teams? Odds are then adjusted based on betting?

If the above is correct then the ITM Cup is the ideal competition to be betting on as there will be fewer betters in total, meaning odds change little from when they are first released. This ensures that things like team selection is not taken into consideration, which is particularly important in this competition as midweek games enforce significant changes to teams.

I've signed up to the TAB now, placed $25 on each of Northland +34.5 ($1.33), +29.5 ($1.62), +19.5 ($2.80), +14.5 ($4).

So if Northland get within 19.5 points I'll make almost a 50% profit. If they get within 14.5 I'll make almost 150% profit.

Come on Northland!

My understanding is at the end of the day, the TAB has a bunch of fullahs (their bookies) who "specialize" in rugby (and separate groups of people who take responsibility for the various sports), who sit around a table and decide on what they think are the most reflective odds for any given game. This "should" take everything into account that you mentioned above; historical results, form, but also on other things like home ground advantage, weather, suspensions, injuries etc etc. Odds will change if the relative volume of betting is weighted too heavily to one team (and I would expect that the TAB has an automated system to minimize potential losses), but may also change (at the TABs discretion) if there are any significant events in the lead up to a game. I.e. The tab would change the odds tonight should half the Cantab team be ruled out with illness or something (extreme example, but one that severs to illustrate the point)..

At the end of the day, betting is simply you vs. the bookie(s). Given it is their full time job to figure out what odds to set, AND most importantly because they have a margin in their favour (i.e. if they determine a game to be 50 - 50, then if the odds were set fairly then each team would pay $2, but in reality they are set at $1.87 meaning if the TAB takes equal money on both teams they are guaranteed to make a +6.5% net return on all betting from that game), the bookies (and the TAB ) will generally come out trumps over most punters.

That being said, my personal opinion is that the NZ TAB are pretty amateurish (not so much in Rugby though as they do know their stuff there). It is not that hard to beat them IF you are disciplined, are good with numbers, and know the sport you are betting on. In particular they make a lot of mistakes - i.e. they set the odds incorrectly, and they often don't keep up news that might effect outcomes.

A very common example of how armature they are is that their odds are often not consistent. For example - often in rugby there are several different options for betting on the exact same thing. Eg. (hypothetically) Winning team and margin - Canterbury 13+ and alternate points start Canterbury -12.5. Now these two options are essentially exactly the same and therefore the odds should be exactly the same. However, the TAB often has discrepancies here and you can often find an extra few cents on one of the options. That might not seem much, but when you think long term, you'll realize that it is these extra few percent on your returns over time that are the difference between making and losing money.

Last night was another pretty good example although hindsight is a lovely thing :) I believe it was probably realistic to have Waikato as slight favs, but it was pretty clear that the TAB significantly overvalued Waikato's win vs. Wellington. The Naki probably should have being offered at about $2 (which probably equates to a 45% chance of winning). The fact that they were paying $3 meant that if you did in fact believe they had a 45% chance of winning then your "expected return" was +35%. That's the way I approach my betting anyway.

The long and the short of it is, use some simple maths to your advantage, have some discipline, take emotion out of it, and if you are unsure, don't bet. Try to determine for your self what chance you give a team of winning/covering certain spreads, compare that to the odds the TAB is offering, and then take the bet if your expected return is greater than 1 (or some slightly higher number if you have stricter criteria). It might all sound a bit too methodical, but IMHO it is the way you will make money.
 
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Canterbury definitely looking like the better team (but we knew that). Thankfully no points scored yet.....which is a positive for us.
 
Canterbury definitely looking like the better team (but we knew that). Thankfully no points scored yet.....which is a positive for us.
Great start.

Im a bit concerned about the space Northalnd are leaving out on the flanks, but can not complain with a 3 - 0 start to Northland after 15 min. About to have another shot at goal now as well.

Looks like this game is playing out a bit as we thought. Canterbury look the better team, but at the same time are making a lot more mistakes than they have in the first two games. All those (12) changes taking their toll!!
 
By the way, in the end I was a little cautious on this one as I wasnt sure how Canterbury would click so I've just gone Northland + 34.5 and a smaller wager on +29.5.
 
By the way, in the end I was a little cautious on this one as I wasnt sure how Canterbury would click so I've just gone Northland + 34.5 and a smaller wager on +29.5.

I think you should win on those. Pretty much a dream start for us. 25 minutes for Canterbury's first try......not bad.
 
I think you should win on those. Pretty much a dream start for us. 25 minutes for Canterbury's first try......not bad.

Yeah a good start, but Canterbury wont keep making as many mistakes as they did in the first 25min..... That first try was taken because Northland are giving them space on the flanks by pressing up early. A couple more big runs on either flank since...If Canterbury execute, they will run in several tries tonight.... Im a little concerned!
 
Yeah a good start, but Canterbury wont keep making as many mistakes as they did in the first 25min..... That first try was taken because Northland are giving them space on the flanks by pressing up early. A couple more big runs on either flank since...If Canterbury execute, they will run in several tries tonight.... Im a little concerned!

Hmmm, Northland getting no where when they get the ball either, at least they can hold on to it.
 
So things went as expected (Canterbury slow to start etc.) but unfortunately slotted in twice towards the end of the half.

I can't see Northland scoring tries unless it's against the run of play tbh so hopefully things go their way a bit in the 2nd or I see Canterbury scoring at least 3 more tries.
 
So things went as expected (Canterbury slow to start etc.) but unfortunately slotted in twice towards the end of the half.

I can't see Northland scoring tries unless it's against the run of play tbh so hopefully things go their way a bit in the 2nd or I see Canterbury scoring at least 3 more tries.

yup, thats the way I see it. For Nothland to cover any of the points spreads we have taken, they are going to need to score at least one try, probably 2.

I have to say they were a touch unlucky not to receive at least one probably 2 or 3 penalties when they had ball in hand in the Cantab half. The ref just seemed happy with Canterbury tacklers lying all over the ball. Was a bit unfair I thought.... is that my own betting bias coming through? or are u seeing the same thing?
 
yup, thats the way I see it. For Nothland to cover any of the points spreads we have taken, they are going to need to score at least one try, probably 2.

I have to say they were a touch unlucky not to receive at least one probably 2 or 3 penalties when they had ball in hand in the Cantab half. The ref just seemed happy with Canterbury tacklers lying all over the ball. Was a bit unfair I thought.... is that my own betting bias coming through? or are u seeing the same thing?

I noticed a few Cantabs lying all over the ball as well tbh, had me getting a little vocal. Unfortunately a team of Canterbury's nature will always have the ref on their "side". Which has shown a slight skew in penalties conceded already.
 
Canterbury are constantly up too fast as well.......which is why Northland are getting no where.
 
I fear this one is going to get ugly. Ref is not helping Northland, but Northland not helping themselves......bad errors and crucial times lead to two seven pointers....
 
And another call going against Northland! That was a bit BS I reckon. That was clearly ripped out....BUT try awarded to Canterbury??
 
This ref is utterly useless. It'll go unnoticed though because it's a "standard" Canterbury win.

I reckon with a half decent ref this game would see Northland down by only 17 odd points at this stage....
 
This ref is utterly useless. It'll go unnoticed though because it's a "standard" Canterbury win.

I reckon with a half decent ref this game would see Northland down by only 17 odd points at this stage....

Yeah, I fear this ref is giving Canterbury a little too much respect. That being said, Northland have made some bad mistakes leading directly to 21 points so.... even if the ref had been better I think this game was always Canterbury's by 30+ at least....
 
Even the commentators are being pretty blatant about how bad this ref is....

He misses a lot of calls as well. You can tell he is relying on his touchies to make (and relay to him) quite a few of the decisions....knock ons for example...

Classic example just then with the "try"" that went to the TMO. How did he not pick up on that?? Blatant.

Im afraid this ref should not be reffing at this level. I suspect it's one of these exchange programme things the NZRFU do sometimes....
 
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Yeah, I fear this ref is giving Canterbury a little too much respect. That being said, Northland have made some bad mistakes leading directly to 21 points so.... even if the ref had been better I think this game was always Canterbury's by 30+ at least....

Either way our bets are gone. In fact I already cashed mine out to claim back some funds at least. The game went as expected but unfortunately Northland just couldn't restrict enough points.
 
Either way our bets are gone. In fact I already cashed mine out to claim back some funds at least. The game went as expected but unfortunately Northland just couldn't restrict enough points.
Yup, well and truly gone :( you win some you lose some in this game huh! Canterbury are gonna take some beating this year. In fact I dont think there is a team in the comp that are going to seriously challenge them......
 
Yup, well and truly gone :( you win some you lose some in this game huh! Canterbury are gonna take some beating this year. In fact I dont think there is a team in the comp that are going to seriously challenge them......

They'll win it. Which is a real shame. It gets a bit tiring seeing the same team win for years. I don't want to sound too vocal but I hate Canterbury, I have my reasons (and no it's not just because they win every year)

Although I am looking forward to Canterbury vs Tasman. If Tasman maintain their form they could put a good display. In fact, looking at the games so far, I'd predict a Canterbury vs Tasman final.
 

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