[2014 EOYT] Ireland vs Georgia

[UlsterG]

Read his post, fairly self explanatory

 

[Jockstap]

What's 'not really'?

You think it wasn't bad luck to lose a player with still 20 minutes to go and just after you've used all your subs? And that Ireland can take lots of lessons out of getting a few tries against a side that was tiring and down to 13 men between for a fair amount of the last quarter?

Not really in terms of not taking anything away. Again Ireland did a lot of good work getting in to try scoring positions only to have the ball killed, the coaches can take a lot out of that. They were never down to 13 men, cards at 42 and 61 mins. Three tries were scored with 15 men on the field after they learned the hard way by getting carded, I'm sure many more would have been scored with 15 men on the field had they not infringed so much.

 

[psychic duck]

Not really in terms of not taking anything away. Again Ireland did a lot of good work getting in to try scoring positions only to have the ball killed, the coaches can take a lot out of that. They were never down to 13 men, cards at 42 and 61 mins. Three tries were scored with 15 men on the field after they learned the hard way by getting carded, I'm sure many more would have been scored with 15 men on the field had they not infringed so much.

... and a man stretchered off with no subs left at something like 62 mins. Only 1 try was scored against 15 men, and that was my point. In terms of playing Australia next week, not much will be learnt by running in late tries against tiring 13/14 men sides, that will have no resemblance to next week playing much fitter 15 men sides.

 

[munstermuffin]

Well will write more when time allows but a decent run out. Simple reason for McGraths lack of time is he did shift last week and is on duty again next week so no need to waste him. Zebo going off was same reason and while others like Gilroy and Jones did well Zebo did too and if we are honest the back 3 had an easy day of it. Delighted for Dave Foley. He has the dog in him.

 

[munstermuffin]

... and a man stretchered off with no subs left at something like 62 mins. Only 1 try was scored against 15 men, and that was my point. In terms of playing Australia next week, not much will be learnt by running in late tries against tiring 13/14 men sides, that will have no resemblance to next week playing much fitter 15 men sides.

Add in Kurtley Beale is back too. Can't wait for next week

 

[Jockstap]

... and a man stretchered off with no subs left at something like 62 mins. Only 1 try was scored against 15 men, and that was my point. In terms of playing Australia next week, not much will be learnt by running in late tries against tiring 13/14 men sides, that will have no resemblance to next week playing much fitter 15 men sides.

I fail to see you point as the game would have obviously been over in the first half had Georgia not killed so much ball. This game was to see how a second choice XV would do against tier 2 teams similar to who Ireland will play in the WC. That question was answered comfortably today.

 

[munstermuffin]

I fail to see you point as the game would have obviously been over in the first half had Georgia not killed so much ball. This game was to see how a second choice XV would do against tier 2 teams similar to who Ireland will play in the WC. That question was answered comfortably today.

I think ye are both right. We only broke down Georgia ALOT after they were reduced and had they kept their full compliment the score probably wouldn't have been as big. But Duck at same time had the refs been sharper (as they will be at RWC) then we'd have had a much higher pen count and they'd be sin binned so it's kind of either argument is right.

 

[psychic duck]

I think ye are both right. We only broke down Georgia ALOT after they were reduced and had they kept their full compliment the score probably wouldn't have been as big. But Duck at same time had the refs been sharper (as they will be at RWC) then we'd have had a much higher pen count and they'd be sin binned so it's kind of either argument is right.

I was saying Ireland won't have learnt a great deal about the team from the last 20 minutes that was against a 13/14 man tiring side ahead of next week's game against 15 men opponents with better conditioning. Not that controversial a point really.

As for your point about RWC refs, I couldn't disagree more about them being 'sharp' at the tournament. Reffing worldwide is in crisis and has been wildly inconsistent, liable to bias on numerous factors, and the RWC is no different. Joubert, Lawrence, Owens etc all hit the headlines in 2011 under greater scrutiny and it wasn't positive press. There several things the Georgians may have wanted to have a word about with the ref as well in that game as well.

 

[The Jones Boy]

Ireland are a bloody good side.
Georgia are a bloody tough lower tier side and they gave a good account of themselves.
Teams like Georgia are hard to look good against and Ireland struggled to look good for periods of the game.

 

[munstermuffin]

I was saying Ireland won't have learnt a great deal about the team from the last 20 minutes that was against a 13/14 man tiring side ahead of next week's game against 15 men opponents with better conditioning. Not that controversial a point really.

As for your point about RWC refs, I couldn't disagree more about them being 'sharp' at the tournament. Reffing worldwide is in crisis and has been wildly inconsistent, liable to bias on numerous factors, and the RWC is no different. Joubert, Lawrence, Owens etc all hit the headlines in 2011 under greater scrutiny and it wasn't positive press. There several things the Georgians may have wanted to have a word about with the ref as well in that game as well.

I know your point about not learning much but they will have learnt how certain guy adapted etc. and while I agree it wasn't much to learn at that stage vs 15 there wouldn't have been a whole lot more to learn.
Regards refs, I agree 2011 was bad for refs but I thinks the topper tier like Owens Joubert Jackson and few others are well ahead when it comes to fringes officiating. The real issues will be at scrum time and I'd guess the difference of officiating at the breakdown between NH and SH

 

[psychic duck]

I know your point about not learning much but they will have learnt how certain guy adapted etc. and while I agree it wasn't much to learn at that stage vs 15 there wouldn't have been a whole lot more to learn.
Regards refs, I agree 2011 was bad for refs but I thinks the topper tier like Owens Joubert Jackson and few others are well ahead when it comes to fringes officiating. The real issues will be at scrum time and I'd guess the difference of officiating at the breakdown between NH and SH

Disagree there I'm afraid, Owens is without a doubt the most overrated referee, he just doesn't do the breakdown and there are many who are clueless at the scrum, Joubert isn't that great either. I actually predict the refereeing crisis will come to a head in 2015 under the scrutiny of the World Cup. A big team at some point is going to come across a ref who gets swayed by nerves, reputations, crowds and stuff. Much like Joubert's final performance, just probably more over the big games. When the IRB are promoting the likes of Clancy and Hodges it's bound to end in tears.

 

[The Jones Boy]

In the end Irelands quality was not going to be denied and they did the job, well done.
For Georgia they showed that they are a tough unit and they deserve more big games like this to bring money into their country's rugby development.

 

[Groundhog]

Disagree there I'm afraid, Owens is without a doubt the most overrated referee, he just doesn't do the breakdown and there are many who are clueless at the scrum, Joubert isn't that great either. I actually predict the refereeing crisis will come to a head in 2015 under the scrutiny of the World Cup. A big team at some point is going to come across a ref who gets swayed by nerves, reputations, crowds and stuff. Much like Joubert's final performance, just probably more over the big games. When the IRB are promoting the likes of Clancy and Hodges it's bound to end in tears.

I think Owens is probably so highly rated because of how he usually lets the game flow. He often turns a total blind eye to certain offences if it allows the game to keep going, and as such his interpritation often allows for a nice free flowing game. I personally like him, but he's far from to the letter of the law which is at times fairly frustrating. A while back I had an interest in getting into reffing and had the entire process involved in rising to the top explained by veteran refs by an AIL vet and a pro when the club was trying to get young refs in (as we have no AIL refs associated with our club), and it baffles me how so many sub standard referees rise so high in the ranks, given the steps involved. It could come down to the fact that a mixture of actual knowledge, fitness and youth is required at the top level which is a fairly small subset.

 

[munstermuffin]

No I agree none are to letter but when it's blatant it's pulled. Duck while I don't fully agree I certainly understand what your saying and while hoping your wrong with the refs and RWC15 I can see where your coming from. But I think it's from higher authority again in the IRB that don't have the right process of passing laws down the line clearly.
And I must say I don't think JP Doyle was the problem today but I think it's teams discipline too as well. But at end of day the red card was deserved too.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Congrats, Ireland. Your boys did the work last weekend and had to rely on SA and France this weekend (you can only play what's in front of you though, right) and though everyone knows it by now and deride the rankins (though secretly wish they were higher on it and actually do care) it's always nice to see it 'on paper' and official;

[TABLE="class: table_main, width: 1"]
<caption class="heading2 h" style="text-align: left; font-weight: bold; color: rgb(255, 255, 255); line-height: 20px; float: none; clear: both; font-family: Arial, sans-serif; font-size: 16px; height: 20px; margin: 1px 1px 0px; padding: 0px 3px; background: url(http://www.irb.com/imgml/IRB/body/top_blue.gif) 100% 0% no-repeat rgb(3, 78, 162);">IRB World Rankings - 17 November 2014</caption><thead style="font-weight: bold; color: rgb(67, 93, 122); margin: 0px; background: rgb(182, 198, 211);">[TR]
[TH="class: l"]Position (last week)[/TH]
[TH="class: l"]Member Union[/TH]
[TH="class: l"]Rating Point[/TH]
[/TR]
</thead><tbody>[TR]
[TD="class: l"]1(1)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

NEW ZEALAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]93.70[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]2(2)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

SOUTH AFRICA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]89.93[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]3(5)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

IRELAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]84.84[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]4(3)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

AUSTRALIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]84.22[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]5(4)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

ENGLAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]84.21[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]6(6)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

FRANCE[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]81.47[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]7(7)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

WALES[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]79.94[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]8(8)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

SCOTLAND[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]78.27[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]9(10)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

ARGENTINA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]76.42[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]10(9)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

JAPAN[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]76.07[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]11(11)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

SAMOA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]75.39[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]12(13)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

TONGA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]74.62[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]13(12)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

FIJI[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]74.18[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]14(14)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

ITALY[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]71.19[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]15(15)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

GEORGIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]69.40[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]16(16)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

USA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]67.99[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]17(17)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

CANADA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]67.64[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]18(18)[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

ROMANIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]66.57[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]19(20)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

RUSSIA[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]64.12[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: l"]20(19)

[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]

URUGUAY[/TD]
[TD="class: l"]63.58[/TD]
[/TR]
</tbody>[/TABLE]

 

[SelimNiai]

Has anything happened about the Georgian dude putting his gurt big plates on the Irish players mush?

 

[Toko_11]

Hmm i find the absence of Georgians on this forum makes it greatly biased towards the traditionalists huh ? that ref being biased towards georgia is nonsense 4 of the Irish tries were scored after Irishers infringed. they could've easily been penalties for Georgia instead of Irish tries so save it about Ireland routing if ref did this and that... only thing that would make that ref more Irish would've been a capital O' in the name :huh:

 

[Groundhog]

No one said he was biased, they said he could have given a card quicker as they consistently killed the ball and infringed when we were near the line.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

Hmm i find the absence of Georgians on this forum makes it greatly biased towards the traditionalists huh ? that ref being biased towards georgia is nonsense 4 of the Irish tries were scored after Irishers infringed. they could've easily been penalties for Georgia instead of Irish tries so save it about Ireland routing if ref did this and that... only thing that would make that ref more Irish would've been a capital O' in the name :huh:

To be honest even if I could choose the nationality of the referee, including your own national side, I still wouldn't pick an Irish referee. I think it would be more likely them trying too hard to prove they aren't biased, rather than them giving favourable calls to the home team - obviously their performances get reviewed too.