2014 6 Nations: Italy vs England (Round 5)

[iINDOMINUSxx]

Italy vs England





Date: Saturday, March 15th 2014 - 13:30 CET (UTC+1)
Location: Stadio Olimpico, Rome, Italy
Referee: Pascal Gaüzère (France)

​

 

[Big Ewis]

Counting on Italy here. France's only realistic (that's right, that's the realistic option !!) hope for the ***le still is for them to win in Paris and Italy to win this one.

It would be the first time ever for Italy, in the 6N or outside it. It's a bit irrelevant to say the last few ones were close, some really close, between these two because England is almost nothing like last year's team in the 6N. They're heaps better, and a lot less one-dimensional, they can score tries, and they've had some major personnel changes.

Hopefully good ol' Castro is back. He left the field last Sat in Dublin. Sergio is back, and hopefully some of those other injured soldiers too.

The only comment I can make right now about the actual game is that I feel Italy can deal with England if they show up because: they've got the forwards to counter England. As hectic as Ireland are at the breakdown, it's their game ball in hand that spread Italy open for lethal hit after hit. And in Paris it's France's backline that put them in difficulty. Italy did fine against Wales and their powerball, and if it wasn't for a super stupid, excruciating opening try, they'd have only conceded the Jamie Roberts break try.
England have added that dimension this year, that they can threaten with their backline and play more ball in hand, but I feel on a good day for Italy they can contain England there. England might not have the creativity to confuse Italy on the attack.
They've got the scrum, a few youngsters who have smt to show on attack....they'll need a good game from the boot from either Orquera or Allan, whoever starts at 10.

Seeing how they lost an absolute heart-breaker at home earlier, and then got smashed more than they'd have wanted in Dublin - they've got nothing to lose here, and have shown they've got game when they're on. The last game of the weekend at home, at Stadio Olimpico.

 

[munstermuffin]

Thing is though Italy rested a few as this is game they targeted and fact they're at home makes it that bit more achievable but England are playing well

 

[ratsapprentice]

they've got the forwards to counter England.

No they don't.

 

[Big Ewis]

No they don't.

and the showing off begineth.

 

[jrZielinski]

well castrogiovanni is out which is a huge lost for Italy. i dont know if parisse will be back for this game if not that i dont see italy getting close to winning this one

 

[ratsapprentice]

I think it's fairly easy to see they don't - who's forwards have dealt with ours over the last year?

 

[Big Ewis]

I think it's fairly easy to see they don't - who's forwards have dealt with ours over the last year?

hehe, come on now...no team has bullied or beaten up England there yet, but that's a big statement. England hasn't itself bullied every team it's met either.
And on the subject, it should be interesting to see England and South Africa face up soon. Whose forwards have "dealt with" England's you ask ? If you want to get bullied up front, you have to go to Jo-Burg. They do a really convincing job on sides.

 

[jrZielinski]

i want someone to sort out owen farrell i dont like him, his attitude sucks

 

[ratsapprentice]

hehe, come on now...no team has bullied or beaten up England there yet, but that's a big statement. England hasn't itself bullied every team it's met either.
And on the subject, it should be interesting to see England and South Africa face up soon. Whose forwards have "dealt with" England's you ask ? If you want to get bullied up front, you have to go to Jo-Burg. They do a really convincing job on sides.

We did! And our pack has improved enormously since then.

I don't think our pack is even trying to bully teams.
We set our standard of physicality at the breakdown pretty high, but marry it with a very high work rate.
I'm fairly sure we can out work any international pack.

 

[j'nuh]

Our second row is absolutely fantastic. Some great options now and upcoming.

Our front row is good-to-great. We have 5 fantastic props, but beyond that, injuries are very worrying. Could do with a classier hooker.

Backrow is decent. Two brilliant options at 8. But I think if we want to improve our pack, it should start with the flankers. Both Wood and Robshaw have tremendous work rates, but I'm not sure that there are many tier one nations that are envious of us there.

 

[Big Ewis]

Robshaw isn't as good as I thought. I always felt like "nah, he's good, just wait n see" but it kind of never happened, unless I've missed it, his big int'l game. For his profile, a big guy, a leader apparently, captain, etc...he's a bit average in his performances on the field, at least in white.
The second rowers are making a whole lot more noise atm.

And it's true, that workrate is quite considerable. You wonder why more teams don't play like that...and physiologically speaking, it's a very good balance between mass and quickness. Lawes gives up a few kilos at lock but has good mobility, but Launchbury compensates and England's got beefy front and back rowers to add there.
There's a hunger in that England pack you don't see too much elsewhere.

The game against the Blacks in November. If I don't focus hard, all I remember is perpetual waves of white jerseys throwing themselves at a black defense, completely subjected to wave after wave...and a couple of nice NZ tries. But then again the AB's have not been impressive with their forwards last year generally at the breakdown at all.

I'd really like to watch a SA ENG match right now. The 2012 matches weren't all that interesting, England were just starting to build the blocks...although they played a nice one in Twickenham, and managed that draw over there. But the Boks are also much better right now compared to that 2012 year.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

Basically I think you're saying Ewis that Italy are a big enough and settled enough pack to not be bulled by England, right?
Jury's out on that.

As for everything else pack-wise, I'd agree with Ratsapprentice: I've seen absolutely no indication that Italy have one with the same athleticism, fitness, workrate, as ours currently is. Hunger, too as you say. To counter our current pack you need physicality, but also those other things. The Italian scrum hasn't been all that for years now, and Castrogiavanni is out now. Italy are actually quite charismatic now and good to watch - they play a 15 man game rather well. They were beaten at home by Scotland, though, and I think England have to be confident that if Scotland can do it, so can we,

Also, pretty much every team in the world has been physically bullied by The Springboks up-front, apart from those few teams who have the sheer ability to run them off the park. Only Australia and New Zealand can currently do that. The France of 3/4 years ago might have.
This said, we matched them in the 3rd Test to some extent.

 

[Big Ewis]

Basically I think you're saying Ewis that Italy are a big enough and settled enough pack to not be bulled by England, right?
Jury's out on that.

As for everything else pack-wise, I'd agree with Ratsapprentice: I've seen absolutely no indication that Italy have one with the same athleticism, fitness, workrate, as ours currently is. Hunger, too as you say. To counter our current pack you need physicality, but also those other things. The Italian scrum hasn't been all that for years now, and Castrogiavanni is out now. Italy are actually quite charismatic now and good to watch - they play a 15 man game rather well. They were beaten at home by Scotland, though, and I think England have to be confident that if Scotland can do it, so can we,

Also, pretty much every team in the world has been physically bullied by The Springboks up-front, apart from those few teams who have the sheer ability to run them off the park. Only Australia and New Zealand can currently do that. The France of 3/4 years ago might have.
This said, we matched them in the 3rd Test to some extent.

I never said Italy's pack had all those qualities lol, I'm just saying their pack will be able to contain the English forwards enough that they won't be dominated the whole game. Italy fear a creative ball-in-hand game, not a big battle up front. They've got roughness there as well.

Yes Castro being out is a near-disaster for Italy, but their scrum is fine though (when he's there). At full strength they had the Boks backpedaling in Joburg last summer for e.g.

I haven't seen the 3rd test, I can't agree or disagree.

 

[Mrs. Peter Quinn]

I think Castro is more just a talisman for italy generally, can carry a bit and is super passionate; I think it's been years since international looseheads would fear playing against him.

The Italy I have seen before don't fear playing running rugby at all - think they've scored some really good tries actually. Campagnaro, Maclean and Sarto are playing very well and Orquera looks to have some class about him. They have the added advantage backs wise of not having Bergamasco at scrum half! When I look at Italy as a team, I do often wonder why they don't get more wins - I think they're a strong side!

3rd Test: To be fair, maybe the Springboks had stopped caring having already won the series but still a win there would have meant a lot. We put Haskell in the back row and he stopped poitgeiter pretty well. It came down to a drop-goal at attempt which Farrell heroically spazzed up.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I don't see how Italy have a hope of beating England. They have been bullied and beaten by every team they have played so far and are now coming up against a confident England on the back of 2 big wins and very consistent performances. Also it doesn't matter if Italy can contain our forwards, our gameplan has moved beyond our forwards quite noticeably now. On the flip side, Italy are still very forwards based and England have shown they can contain that without too much trouble. The side that troubled us most was the one that played backs game and that was France. Psychologically I think this Italian side will be tired and not fired up. They aren't even avoiding a wooden spoon any more realistically. They have just suffered a humilating defeat at the hands of Ireland.

 

[Tony Manx]

England, with Ford playing at 10 (how is that for a prediction), will win this game by between 15/20 points but become the champions due to the French win later that afternoon!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

England, with Ford playing at 10 (how is that for a prediction), will win this game by between 15/20 points but become the champions due to the French win later that afternoon!

To be honest, I think that might happen too (though with Farrell at 10, Ford getting 20 or so).
Ireland look very good at the moment, but I just have a feeling France will finally "turn up", as the worn out old cliche goes.

 

[UlsterRugby2012]

To be honest, I think that might happen too (though with Farrell at 10, Ford getting 20 or so).
Ireland look very good at the moment, but I just have a feeling France will finally "turn up", as the worn out old cliche goes.

Yes keep this up! Maybe if people start believing more that France are favourites we may have a chance..

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Yes keep this up! Maybe if people start believing more that France are favourites we may have a chance..

Hey now, don't try and act like you're not massive favourites going in to this game


Ireland by a million!