15 backs v 15 forwards. Who wins? Discuss.

[pagliaccio_euforico]

Ive been thinking about this quite a bit (nothing better to do)

scrum time- yeah the forwards are going to win scrum penalties. But there ability to kick for sticks is going to be ****, it would have to be right in front of the posts and within 30m to get points. They could probably scrum again and just hope that the entire backs pack gets yellow carded. They could kick for line outs but how much territory would they get.

line out/mauls- with a week of practice I think backs could be okay. Attacking line outs just throw over the top and defensive line outs try to sack the mail as much as possible.

when they have the ball they could just kick long up and unders, I don't know how good the backs would be under the high ball.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Ive been thinking about this quite a bit (nothing better to do)

scrum time- yeah the forwards are going to win scrum penalties.

No they're not, with non specialists in the backs they'll be uncontested from outset.....but ignoring that detail point well made.

.
line out/mauls- with a week of practice I think backs could be okay. Attacking line outs just throw over the top and defensive line outs try to sack the mail as much as possible.

A week? Really? Are you a back by any chance?

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

No they're not, with non specialists in the backs they'll be uncontested from outset.....but ignoring that detail point well made.



A week? Really? Are you a back by any chance?

yeah, I think In a week you could learn to throw the ball 20 meters and with little enough hang time your fastest player catches it instead of their fastest player.

If 100% of your set piece training is focused on sacking the maul and throwing over the top, I'd imagine you would be passable at it.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I don't think so. Forwards would have a huge advantage in terms of possession. Every fixed formation would be a penalty or a massive territory gain for the forwards. Even if their handling goes wrong with their backs (the forwards playing as backs) every knock on would result in a scrum for them which means an instant penalty/territory advantage.

Stopping a maul against a strong and cohesive pack is already a huge challenge for a good pack of forwards. Against backs it'd be a massacre. There is a lot of experience and technique that goes (or could go) unnoticed. When to hold and when to push back, who contains and who attacks the ball. There is a lot of stuff going on.

On top of all that, whenever the backs have a penalty, it'd be a very risky bet for them to kick to the line. They'd be 50/50 in the best possible universe and if they manage to get the ball, they'd probably get pushed back.

Backs's advantage is speed and handling and kicking. You need first possession and second space to exploit the first two that and I don't see the backs having any of those.
Kicking might work a bit but you would need consistent and surgical precision.

The kicking to the posts would favour the backs, sure, but i don't see that moving the needle here.

 

[Pieter Steph du Teague]

yeah, I think In a week you could learn to throw the ball 20 meters and with little enough hang time your fastest player catches it instead of their fastest player.

If 100% of your set piece training is focused on sacking the maul and throwing over the top, I'd imagine you would be passable at it.

That just isn't a viable tactic. You can't go over the top every single time, otherwise teams would actually do it. Yes, the faster player may catch the ball every time but once the forward team recognizes that throwing it over the top is all that the backs are going to do, the man catching the ball is going to get lined up and absolutely clattered every single time. Add in the fact that the forwards team likely has 10 back rowers in their side who know exactly where the first breakdown is going to be because the backs have telegraphed it every lineout, there's no way that the backs consistently maintain possession of the ball beyond first phase of the lineout as they're just going to get pilfered. Plus, I think you're massively underestimating how hard of a throw that would be to nail every single lineout - there's no way that it's going straight every time, or even half of the time after only a week's training.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Real question is who would win 15 Tom Currys or 15 Ben Currys

 

[pagliaccio_euforico]

.

I'm not saying it's a good tactic. I'm saying the discussion goes from "lol backs" to "forwards by 15".

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

forwards would destroy the backs
what happens at scrum line out ruck maul time? backs will just stand around doing nothing cos they wont know what to do.
and lets dispell this notion that forwards would run out of puff. backs do fk all and just stand around and wait for tries. forwards are way fitter than backs.

Reminds me of a guy I went to school with who played wing / FB for Eng Schools, a top flight club, divisional level and Eng B (now Saxons).

He used to come back to us occasionally and on one overseas tour just before his senior career really kicked off he was giving it large about how easy it was up front so was given a game at flanker. We had some good players, but he was already with a Premiership club and massively better trained than the rest of us - seriously quick with abs and everything - but 80 minutes later he was in bits and realised that up front it's incessant activity requiring a totally different kind of fitness.

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

Real question is who would win 15 Tom Currys or 15 Ben Currys

I'll highjack the question with a slight mod. You have to pick 1 player who will be cloned to give you an entire squad. They then have to face other players+ their clones. Who would you pick?

 

[Leinster Fan]

I'll highjack the question with a slight mod. You have to pick 1 player who will be cloned to give you an entire squad. They then have to face other players+ their clones. Who would you pick?

John Eales or Keith Wood.

 

[big ginger 8]

Think Nadolo would be in the conversation with the mix of size, speed and goal kicking.

 

[Leinster Fan]

Think Nadolo would be in the conversation with the mix of size, speed and goal kicking.

That's a very good call.

I went Eales for the mix of excellent forward along with goalkicking (which would be a weakness for a team of 15 forwards obviously). Equally a hooker might be best though because that team would have actual scrummagers and be able to throw in at lineouts. Of hookers, Wood had the speed and skill to bring an all round game.

 

[BPM]

If I had to pick two teams with current players I'd go for:

Forwards:

1. M. Vunipola
2. D. Coles
3. K. Sinckler
4. B. Retallick
5. L. Nakarawa
6. C. Ollivon
7. M. Hooper
8. P. Yato
9. B. Curry
10. J. Tipuric
11. S. Kunatani
12. L. Botia
13. S. Simmonds
14. A. Savea
15. T. Curry

The Curry twins are both reasonable kickers from hand (Ben in particular). Not sure about kicking from the tee obviously. I went for Kunatani and Botia as they both have experience for playing in those positions and let's be honest, Fijians would dominate this.

Backs:

1. M. Bastareaud
2. N. Laumape
3. R. J. van Rensburg
4. M. Banahan
5. T. Naiyarovoro
6. J. Tuisova
7. B. Barritt
8. N. Nadolo
9. F. de Klerk
10. O. Farrell
11. J. Savea
12. D. De Allende
13. S. Radradra
14. M. Koroibete
15. A. Watson

I'm pretty sure Banahan started out as a lock and TBH, I reckon Barritt might have been a very good flanker.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

If I had to pick two teams with current players I'd go for:

Forwards:

1. M. Vunipola
2. D. Coles
3. K. Sinckler
4. B. Retallick
5. L. Nakarawa
6. C. Ollivon
7. M. Hooper
8. P. Yato
9. B. Curry
10. J. Tipuric
11. S. Kunatani
12. L. Botia
13. S. Simmonds
14. A. Savea
15. T. Curry

The Curry twins are both reasonable kickers from hand (Ben in particular). Not sure about kicking from the tee obviously. I went for Kunatani and Botia as they both have experience for playing in those positions and let's be honest, Fijians would dominate this.

Backs:

1. M. Bastareaud
2. N. Laumape
3. R. J. van Rensburg
4. M. Banahan
5. T. Naiyarovoro
6. J. Tuisova
7. B. Barritt
8. N. Nadolo
9. F. de Klerk
10. O. Farrell
11. J. Savea
12. D. De Allende
13. S. Radradra
14. M. Koroibete
15. A. Watson

I'm pretty sure Banahan started out as a lock and TBH, I reckon Barritt might have been a very good flanker.

No Ben Earl on the wing?

Bad weekend for Jonny May. First Geech doesn't include him in his Lions XV and now you pick Barritt ahead of him at flanker. Only so much a man can take.

 

[BPM]

Haha. Earl would be a good shout.

 

[Scotty]

If I had to pick two teams with current players I'd go for:

Forwards:

1. M. Vunipola
2. D. Coles
3. K. Sinckler
4. B. Retallick
5. L. Nakarawa
6. C. Ollivon
7. M. Hooper
8. P. Yato
9. B. Curry
10. J. Tipuric
11. S. Kunatani
12. L. Botia
13. S. Simmonds
14. A. Savea
15. T. Curry

The Curry twins are both reasonable kickers from hand (Ben in particular). Not sure about kicking from the tee obviously. I went for Kunatani and Botia as they both have experience for playing in those positions and let's be honest, Fijians would dominate this.

Backs:

1. M. Bastareaud
2. N. Laumape
3. R. J. van Rensburg
4. M. Banahan
5. T. Naiyarovoro
6. J. Tuisova
7. B. Barritt
8. N. Nadolo
9. F. de Klerk
10. O. Farrell
11. J. Savea
12. D. De Allende
13. S. Radradra
14. M. Koroibete
15. A. Watson

I'm pretty sure Banahan started out as a lock and TBH, I reckon Barritt might have been a very good flanker.

If your against forwards wouldnt you want Kolbe? (Or ibitoye but his defence is terrible agaonst small players) Maybe even nowell as he likes to get stick in a the breakdown and can be a handful.

Need some big blokes in the backs but id focus on the handling speed and kicking game. Id have a 2 playmakers at 10 and 15.

 

[BPM]

Nowell is a great shout and Kolbe is defensively strong for a small guy.

I should probably have picked Tuilagi or Kerevi at 12 now I think about it.

 

[Scotty]

Backs team 'hammer defence' would prevent wide balls and catch players behind the gainline (Brad Barrett in the 12 position for this) meaning forwards going round the corner would get double tackled (by likes of manu/Naiaravoro) as the backs dont need to worry about outwide as much.

On the flip side the forwards would do 1 out runners running at pace hitting the smaller guys at pace.

Forwards win matches, backs decide by how much, forwards win IMO but its not clear cut. Id love to see this game.


My backs team (similar to BPMs im sure, few tweeks)

Bastaraud (obv)
Laumape
Naiaravoro
Van Rensburg
Naholo
Brad Barrett(plays 12 position in defence)
Nowell(loves the breakdown aswell as tricky in attack)
Cockanasiga(not the biggest i terms of carrying but can carry hard, given scrums would be uncontested packing off the base with the 7 fully ready to brake away amd tackle would be crazy, so use him for bulk and top end place.

Reinach (out and out pace + he runs class support lines)
Faz(loves a tackle)
Watson
Tuilagi
Randradra
Kolbe( crazy not to he can step 3 backs at once never mind forwards if manu makes space or Randradra does a crazy offload)
Bauden Barrett (no brainer for me a second playmaker and can ender the line hitting gaps with rapid pace then offload)

Screw it backs win

 

[choripan]

the backs for the forward team could be amazing petti, ps du toit, marx, vunipola. also i would like to see a team of XV front rowers, like mayhem
actual possibly team, all currently playing, coach: me
1 kitshoff
2 george
3 Furlong
4 m, alaalatoa
5 malherbe
6 creevy
7 marx
8 Vunipola (the good one)
9 Marler
10 moody
11 sio great finisher (?)
12 Peni Ravai (he plays like nakarawa and caucaunibauca)
13 synkcler (great hands)
14 Speed nel
15 owens
impact players d coles, montoya, harris
the team will be rubish at defense in the wide side, beyond outside center we can do ****, we will make the longest pick and go ever.

 

[choripan]

If I had to pick two teams with current players I'd go for:

Forwards:

1. M. Vunipola
2. D. Coles
3. K. Sinckler
4. B. Retallick
5. L. Nakarawa
6. C. Ollivon
7. M. Hooper
8. P. Yato
9. B. Curry
10. J. Tipuric
11. S. Kunatani
12. L. Botia
13. S. Simmonds
14. A. Savea
15. T. Curry

The Curry twins are both reasonable kickers from hand (Ben in particular). Not sure about kicking from the tee obviously. I went for Kunatani and Botia as they both have experience for playing in those positions and let's be honest, Fijians would dominate this.

Backs:

1. M. Bastareaud
2. N. Laumape
3. R. J. van Rensburg
4. M. Banahan
5. T. Naiyarovoro
6. J. Tuisova
7. B. Barritt
8. N. Nadolo
9. F. de Klerk
10. O. Farrell
11. J. Savea
12. D. De Allende
13. S. Radradra
14. M. Koroibete
15. A. Watson

I'm pretty sure Banahan started out as a lock and TBH, I reckon Barritt might have been a very good flanker.

Not even 1 guy from argentina, where everybody knows how to kick, even the front rowers know how to get a nice drop kick