[2015 RWC] Warm Up Match: France vs England (22/08/2015)

[goodNumber10]

Brian Moore, Woodward?, Dunno if Wilko counts as a pundit....however all I've really seen is people wade in om the Burgess debate.

Good call on Moore.

Woodward has been very critical of Lancaster.

 

[goodNumber10]

Yeah, insofar as it's a talking point, in that Back's quite clearly talking out of his hoop there.

When it comes to his assessments of them as players, I don't make him far wrong if any.



Difficult call. I suspect Lancaster would like to take guys like Robshaw to the next World Cup and he'll make the next generation work sodding hard to displace the current one; I certainly wouldn't be confident in Lancaster going straight for the next generation and that goes double if the World Cup goes bad and he's only got a couple of windows in which to justify his job. Of course, if it goes really well, then how can you dismantle the team when there's 6Ns to be won?

Yeah, I think he's mainly right about them, though I think Robshaw has a good passing distribution game it's just not what England ask him to do.

On the next gen, why would he make lots of changes? He'll phase one or two out, Haskell and Brad B will go, Danny Care as well I imagine but he's not going to drop a whole team (which it has to be said isn't exactly old men).

 

[TobesHodges]

Most of the team have 6 more years of peak rugby, of course subject to form.

 

[TobesHodges]

Watson, Nowell, Vunipola's, ford, Farrell, JJ, Slade, launch, lawes.. Probably the only bit that may need some attention is the flankers, but like someone said we have itoje etc and who ever else comes through the youth setups..

 

[Willodell100]

To be fair Robshaw & Wood are 29 & 28 respectively so they have another World Cup cycle in them. Now you could argue that it's a young man's spot flanker and that Richie McCaw is a year too old but try telling him that!

And, as much as I hate to admit it, world cups are generally won with experienced squads. I don't know the exact figures but the winnings sides in 1995, 1999, 2003, 2007, 2011 all had bundles of it.

Back, Hill & Dallaglio were all in their 30s when they lifted the silverware back in 2003.

With this in mind I think SL will try and stick with most if not all of this squad because apart from Easter & Parling no player from this squad will be over 34.

 

[ZeroTwo]

I wasn't trying to suggest wholesale changes buy for me Robshaw is England's only convincing flanker I'd keep for the next wc (Wood may rediscover form but Easter, Haskell and Croft won't make it).

I was then thinking wouldn't it be a perfect opportunity to try Robshaw at 6 and rotate some younger flankers at 7?

 

[goodNumber10]

France Line up:

15 Scott Spedding, 14 Yoann Huget, 13 Mathieu Bastareaud, 12 Wesley Fofana, 11 Noa Nakaitaci, 10 Frédéric Michalak, 9 Sébastien Tillous-Borde, 8 Louis Picamoles, 7 Bernard le Roux, 6 Damien Chouly, 5 Yoann Maestri, 4 Pascal Papé, 3 Rabah Slimani, 2 Guilhem Guirado, 1 Eddy Ben Arous


Replacements: 16 Benjamin Kayser, 17 Vincent Debaty, 18 Uini Atonio, 19 Alexandre Flanquart, 20 Yannick Nyanga, 21 Rory Kockott, 22 Rémi Talès, 23 Gaël Fickou

Does this mean Michalak is PSA's first choice 10?

 

[j'nuh]

I'm struggling to think of an ex-england player pundit who isn't criticising this team right now.

Tindall:
http://allsports.com.gh/other_sport...-to-make-rugby-world-cup-final-id4087401.html
Vickery:
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.u...eflects-2003/story-27509529-detail/story.html
Wilkinson:
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Jonn...ove-headache/story-27491579-detail/story.html

I mean, maybe it's just newspapers are printing the negative stuff, because that's what sells. (You can't sell optimism to the British public!)

 

[goodNumber10]

Tindall:
http://allsports.com.gh/other_sport...-to-make-rugby-world-cup-final-id4087401.html
Vickery:
http://www.gloucestershireecho.co.u...eflects-2003/story-27509529-detail/story.html
Wilkinson:
http://www.bathchronicle.co.uk/Jonn...ove-headache/story-27491579-detail/story.html

I mean, maybe it's just newspapers are printing the negative stuff, because that's what sells. (You can't sell optimism to the British public!)

yeah, fair enough, though to be fair i don't really read the local rags

 

[TobesHodges]

Gutted Burgess isn't playing, what an opportunity to see what he's made of against a really decent centre partnership..

 

[Willodell100]

I wasn't trying to suggest wholesale changes buy for me Robshaw is England's only convincing flanker I'd keep for the next wc (Wood may rediscover form but Easter, Haskell and Croft won't make it).

I was then thinking wouldn't it be a perfect opportunity to try Robshaw at 6 and rotate some younger flankers at 7?

Not a bad idea. It obviously depends on how we go this World Cup and although I do feel Robshaw is a better and more natural 6 he has excelled at 7. Here are a few options post World Cup:

Matt Kvesic (23) is the traditional open side and the next in line probably.

Jack Clifford (22) is a great athlete and really impressed for Quins in his breakthrough season. He's one of those pure athletes that can play all across the back row.

Luke Wallace (24) is a good club player and feels like one that could come through & excel late in his career.

Will Fraser (25) is another good rugby player although you feel he really has to dethrone Jacques Burger & own that Sarries 7 shirt if he is to stand a serious chance of wearing the Rose.

 

[j'nuh]

To be fair Robshaw & Wood are 29 & 28 respectively so they have another World Cup cycle in them. Now you could argue that it's a young man's spot flanker and that Richie McCaw is a year too old but try telling him that!

Wood's just not good enough. Robshaw is a good player, but he'll never be a top 5 openside. I'm also not convinced he'll be a better player at 33 than he is at 29. Those are two of our most experienced players in the squad, and yet our flanker play is amongst the least inspiring in the top tier of rugby. For me, there's a point when experience doesn't count for much.

Bring Kvesic and Ewers into the squad at the start of the next cycle. They can have 40 caps by the next WC, and we might even have a world class player amongst them.

 

[goodNumber10]

Wood's just not good enough. Robshaw is a good player, but he'll never be a top 5 openside. I'm also not convinced he'll be a better player at 33 than he is at 29. Those are two of our most experienced players in the squad, and yet our flanker play is amongst the least inspiring in the top tier of rugby. For me, there's a point when experience doesn't count for much.

Bring Kvesic and Ewers into the squad at the start of the next cycle. They can have 40 caps by the next WC, and we might even have a world class player amongst them.

not sure how Robshaw isn't inspiring the guys a workhorse, I think he's inspiring in the same way Richard Hill was and this point of the last world cup cycle everyone was outraged he'd not been given a shot.

plus the simple truth of it is, when Haskell, Wood & Robshaw step down Calum CLarke will be next in line... Kvesic just won't get a look in.

 

[chippieolamus]

Will Fraser (25) is another good rugby player although you feel he really has to dethrone Jacques Burger & own that Sarries 7 shirt if he is to stand a serious chance of wearing the Rose.

He will if he can stay injury free for a season. Class player.

 

[Maverick1987]

not sure how Robshaw isn't inspiring the guys a workhorse, I think he's inspiring in the same way Richard Hill was and this point of the last world cup cycle everyone was outraged he'd not been given a shot.

plus the simple truth of it is, when Haskell, Wood & Robshaw step down Calum CLarke will be next in line... Kvesic just won't get a look in.

Re. Clark I can't see him being around long term he's a good player but he temperament will inevitably let him down eventually and with players like Clifford, Itoje, Hughes and Ewers about I can see them all overtaking him .

I hope anyway .....

Imo the right thing to do after this World Cup is to put Itoje straight in as the 6 and breed him to be the next England captain . To me he looks like he was born to do it

It's important for us to move on with some areas of our team . I can understand not doing it now but after the World Cup there will be no excuses

 

[goodNumber10]

perhaps, but he's always around and Lancaster obviously see's him as potential.

 

[TobesHodges]

Clark will go to France and be great, mark my words.. ^_^

 

[Maverick1987]

perhaps, but he's always around and Lancaster obviously see's him as potential.

Personally I think Lancaster keeps him around because he's an experienced player that Stuart knows really well . He's captained Northampton and played in Premiership and European cup finals .

I don't mean experienced at international level obviously

With how it's worked with Lancaster since he's been there I would expect it to take a short while for him to realise Itoje and Clifford are the future flanks and send Clark packing

 

[goodNumber10]

Personally I think Lancaster keeps him around because he's an experienced player that Stuart knows really well . He's captained Northampton and played in Premiership and European cup finals .

I don't mean experienced at international level obviously

With how it's worked with Lancaster since he's been there I would expect it to take a short while for him to realise Itoje and Clifford are the future flanks and send Clark packing

we can but hope, eh?

 

[Grizwald]

How do folk feel about Barritt? I reckon in Lancasters mind (if fit) he's nailed on to start with JJ. Personally I think he's a bit underrated, and a pretty consitent peformer, but ultimately limited. I guess we'll find out against Ireland if he is preferred-don't think he's played with Joseph yet in the England set up?