Wales v South Africa

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've already given my perspective in this thread of the incident (summary: stupid, deserves a ban, blight on his legacy), but I do want to clear up a misconception. Yes Etzebeth does love the enforcer role and does get in peoples faces in scuffles (loves to grab a collar.. and tbh does too much risky stuff of getting his hands in the face of other players). But what Etzebeth doesn't have is a bad disciplinary record. Since his debut in 2012, he has received a total of 4 yellow cards, and this is first red card. He had one suspension back in his first season in 2012 for an attempted headbutt on Nathan Sharpe.

The reason I'm raising this is I fully suspect that the tick box in the mitigation category for "Good Record" will be ticked for Etzebeth - which will technically be correct.

Posting one of the review cards from this series for context of what is assessed - noting that I believe some of the categories will be different for an eye-gouging incident (but I've double checked and a player's disciplinary record is included in there for mitigation).
View attachment 25140

Well that surprises me but IMO someone doesn't go for a gouge in the heat of a moment. A punch, slap, shove, grab even headbutt etc all seem very impulsive but gouging to me seems like something you very consciously choose to do to maximise the harm you can do to someone and not a thing you do when just just suddenly flip.

 

[dirty harry]

Well that surprises me but IMO someone doesn't go for a gouge in the heat of a moment. A punch, slap, shove, grab even headbutt etc all seem very impulsive but gouging to me seems like something you very consciously choose to do to maximise the harm you can do to someone and not a thing you do when just just suddenly flip.

Cant agree more, ill put my hands up and say ive struck out at people in the past, but the 2 occasions ive been gouged im thrashing out to get away, and had near zero clue whay had happened, let alone found the individual and thought about gouging him back!!!

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

Well that surprises me but IMO someone doesn't go for a gouge in the heat of a moment. A punch, slap, shove, grab even headbutt etc all seem very impulsive but gouging to me seems like something you very consciously choose to do to maximise the harm you can do to someone and not a thing you do when just just suddenly flip.

I don’t disagree, but I also can’t get my head around why.

What prompted him? He’s got 140 tests in so knows where the boundaries lie. The match was as low key as it’s possible to get so he’s not going to have been on emotional or adrenaline overload. And Mann isn’t exactly threatening his status as the game’s alpha male.

So what happened? 30 years ago “he’s just a thug” was definitely a thing, but not now. I find it hard to believe that he wasn’t properly triggered in some way.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Cant agree more, ill put my hands up and say ive struck out at people in the past, but the 2 occasions ive been gouged im thrashing out to get away, and had near zero clue whay had happened, let alone found the individual and thought about gouging him back!!!

Yep, was gouged once and just started blindly swinging. Took me a good 5 - 10 minutes to calm down again.

Probably the most I've lost it on a pitch but there was a time that I split the posts with a place kick, both touchies put their flags up and the ref declared it wide. Was lucky not to get sent off after what I said then.

 

[Wasps92]

I went as a “neutral”. I normally enjoy my trips to Cardiff but this was a tough watch. Half empty ground which was probably 60/40 South Africa and it was like watching men against boys. It was painful.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

I guess repeatedly asking people not to derail game threads wasn't enough

 

[Ddanno]

SLAM THE HAMMER OLYY

 

[TRF_Olyy]

AWJ is on MasterChef tomorrow if you want to see a Welsh rugby player have a chance of actually scoring some points

 

[Welsh Exile]

AWJ is on MasterChef tomorrow if you want to see a Welsh rugby player have a chance of actually scoring some points

If he gets a wooden spoon I’ll riot.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

I've noticed the "Etzebeth was gouged first" stuff seems to be gaining traction among the Bok supporters. Having watch the footage, it's such a ******* ridiculous claim to make. At absolute most, Mann's pinky finger may have brushed over Etzebeths eyes by accident. The fact anyone is attempting to use that to justify Etzebeth full on trying to pop his eyeball is ******* disgusting.

 

[Bobinator]

There's no justification for Etzebeth's eye gouge. If he feels that he was gouged at some point during the game, either with the Mann 'incident' or at some other point, that might go toward explaining why he chose to take the action that he did, but it absolutely doesn't justify it.

 

[SéniorHuevo]

When do we relegate Wales from the Six Nations then, can we do it soon or do we have to wait until Georgia or Spain beat them at the World Cup?

 

[Saintjay]

When do we relegate Wales from the Six Nations then, can we do it soon or do we have to wait until Georgia or Spain beat them at the World Cup?

Can Spain or Georgia show they can compete on revenue, attendances, eyes on TV screens and adverts. It's not just about if they can compete on field. It's about the other unions agreeing after seeing where the money is

 

[Welsh Exile]

Can Spain or Georgia show they can compete on revenue, attendances, eyes on TV screens and adverts. It's not just about if they can compete on field. It's about the other unions agreeing after seeing where the money is

Give it a couple of years and they probably will be able to compete on those fronts. It’ll just be me, Harry and @dullonien watching.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

When do we relegate Wales from the Six Nations then, can we do it soon or do we have to wait until Georgia or Spain beat them at the World Cup?

Spain might be the only nation that can do it but they'd need to build a bigger market than Wales currently have. South Sfrica is probably more likely though.

I'd prefer that the 6n is replaced with a 5 match, 8 or 12 team European championship on even years or once every 4 years in the Lions year.

I think an entire overhaul of the competition is more likely than Wales going unless it gets to a point where Wales can't even maintain clubs at a URC and domestic level. And again, at that point the Boks are going to swoop in.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Spain might be the only nation that can do it but they'd need to build a bigger market than Wales currently have. South Sfrica is probably more likely though.

I'd prefer that the 6n is replaced with a 5 match, 8 or 12 team European championship on even years or once every 4 years in the Lions year.

I think an entire overhaul of the competition is more likely than Wales going unless it gets to a point where Wales can't even maintain clubs at a URC and domestic level. And again, at that point the Boks are going to swoop in.

If the Boks job the 6n, that would surely then spell death for the rugby championship. Right is dying in Australia and even in decline in New Zealand. I don't think Argentina alone could offset that. Would Japan join in SAs place?

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

If the Boks job the 6n, that would surely then spell death for the rugby championship. Right is dying in Australia and even in decline in New Zealand. I don't think Argentina alone could offset that. Would Japan join in SAs place?

I'd say the RC is closer to death than Wales tbh

 

[saguy]

I've noticed the "Etzebeth was gouged first" stuff seems to be gaining traction among the Bok supporters. Having watch the footage, it's such a ******* ridiculous claim to make. At absolute most, Mann's pinky finger may have brushed over Etzebeths eyes by accident. The fact anyone is attempting to use that to justify Etzebeth full on trying to pop his eyeball is ******* disgusting.

Bok supporter here, there's no excuse for a deliberate eye gouge. If it was deliberate, lengthy ban deserved.
Whether it was deliberate, or just poor hand placement in the heat of the moment... only Eben and the good Lord will ever know.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

The way rugby's laws are currently I don't think intention should be considered at all. Ryan's hit on Marx was deemed not deliberate and reduced by a week and that's stupid as ****, it was so reckless and dangerous that the chances of injury were identical to what it would have been if intentional.

Like we're talking about intention here when Etzebeth could have blinded Mann, had that happened WR would have less work because the justicecsystem would be taking over...

 

[Bobinator]

Yeah, of course it's fun to tease the Welsh about their current run of results, but this is just temporary. Wales will be back to being competitive again. Bad runs are just part of the cycle.