2nd test - Australia v British & Irish Lions

[TRF_Olyy]

Marcus has done well with what he's been given and I think Fin has played some decent rugby.

I'm a big Marcus fan but I don't think he's had a good tour at all
Fin has had a couple of decent performances off the bench but not taken his chances when given them

They're both young and need chances to shine

Lions is about the here and now, development shouldn't come into it whatsoever - the side wont exist in 9 days

 

[ncurd]

Even the Welsh don't want Cuthbert playing unless its a spite pick.

 

[ChicagoKid]

I'm a big Marcus fan but I don't think he's had a good tour at all
Fin has had a couple of decent performances off the bench but not taken his chances when given them

Ive said it again and again, Marcus is not a 15. He lacks the athleticism, size and instincts to play there.

He is a 10 through and through.

The top teams are clearly moving towards a more athletic 15. Over the weekend, you saw Ruben Love, B Barrett, Fassi, Niniashvili, and Willemse.

Those are some absolute freakshows.

The only exception is Thomas Ramos but he brings elite instincts and goal kicking.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Freeman is not playing at a high level right now and Lowe is a 12 with a big boot.

LBB & Penaud
Kurt Lee & Cheslin
Jordan, Reece, & Clark

Those 7 players are better than anyone from Oz or the Lions.

In 2013, Izzy F and North along with Savea were the top 3 wingers in the world by a country mile.

Don't fully agree with a couple of those those names or the player analysis but I only took exception with Cuthbert initially.

But to your point, it's nothing crazy. North, Halfpenny and Bowe all get into all time and / or pro era XVs for their countries, that was probably the best Lions back three of the pro era.

Conversely the current front row options are far better, only Adam Jones makes the 23 out of the test players in 13. Corbisiero had a great summer that year but just wasn't as good a player as the current two LHs, Mako was raw asf, the hookers were weak.

It's just cyclical.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Conversely the current front row options are far better, only Adam Jones makes the 23 out of the test players in 13. Corbisiero had a great summer that year but just wasn't as good a player as the current two LHs, Mako was raw asf, the hookers were weak.

It's just cyclical.

You're broadly right, but this year's front row isn't great. Furlong has been out of form, and Will Stuart is the backup to the Springboks' third-string tighthead.

Granted, Genge & Porter are very good, and Sheehan is probably the in-form hooker worldwide.

However, the one thing Oz had ascendancy in was the scrum. Open play is a different story, but losing scrum battles to AA & 97-year-old slipper is not very impressive.

 

[dirty harry]

Ooooh interesting...

Jones Sheehan Genge
POC AWJ
Beirne Heaslip Warburton
Phillips Russell
Tuipilotu Davies
North Halfpenny Freeman

Itoje, Conan, JGP very unlucky not to make the side, especially Itoje losing out to lions legends. He makes nearly any other lions team IMO, there is an argument for him over POC, who wasnt at his best.

Freeman lucky to be in by default, although you could argue Cuthbert was a monster weapon 2013 and unstoppable going forward.
BOD wasnt the real BOD 2013, he was a shadow of himself.

 

[IT157]

Prediction: Aki will get sent off for a high tackle.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Ooooh interesting...

Jones Sheehan Genge
POC AWJ
Beirne Heaslip Warburton
Phillips Russell
Tuipilotu Davies
North Halfpenny Freeman

Itoje, Conan, JGP very unlucky not to make the side, especially Itoje losing out to lions legends. He makes nearly any other lions team IMO, there is an argument for him over POC, who wasnt at his best.

Freeman lucky to be in by default, although you could argue Cuthbert was a monster weapon 2013 and unstoppable going forward.
BOD wasnt the real BOD 2013, he was a shadow of himself.

The Welsh boys were on absolute fire in 2013. The Irish lads were picked on reputation, not form.

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

You're broadly right, but this year's front row isn't great. Furlong has been out of form, and Will Stuart is the backup to the Springboks' third-string tighthead.

Granted, Genge & Porter are very good, and Sheehan is probably the in-form hooker worldwide.

However, the one thing Oz had ascendancy in was the scrum. Open play is a different story, but losing scrum battles to AA & 97-year-old slipper is not very impressive.

Not sure if I'd blame the scrum too much on the players, seems to have been sacrificed as a unit hoping to keep it around 80%, which they did on Saturday to be fair. No matter the front five, it's been getting rinsed. They all seem to be faring worse than with club and country.

The last tour was time far better too, that Wales team were at their peak, England at their most consistent year to year since their world cup side and Ireland were heading into a period of unprecedented success with POC in particular still going well.

Currently Scotland and Ireland seem to be past their best and England are rising. 2013 probably had 4 guys you'd have as captain over Itoje (and Doris had he been fit) which sums up where the nations are at. Obviously Wales aside, I think the other three nations are probably happier with where we / they are now than 2013 though.

Russell

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Do people really rate the 2013 back three over the 2017 lot?

Watson, Williams, and Daly were far more exciting for me and against much better opposition.

 

[Ddanno]

Do people really rate the 2013 back three over the 2017 lot?

Watson, Williams, and Daly were far more exciting for me and against much better opposition.

I think people are talking exclusively about the last Aus tour

 

[Leonormous Boozer]

Do people really rate the 2013 back three over the 2017 lot?

Watson, Williams, and Daly were far more exciting for me and against much better opposition.

As individual players the 2013 were considerably better players. As a Lions back three they're fairly comparable but in terms of careers and peaks I don't think you take any of the 2017 group.

Like 2009 Bowe was better than 2013 Bowe but it's the same player as I view things. Kind of like how I can forgive comparing Phillips and JGP favourably in Phillips favour, he was awful in 2013 but a pretty elite 9 himself.

 

[ChicagoKid]

Do people really rate the 2013 back three over the 2017 lot?

Watson, Williams, and Daly were far more exciting for me and against much better opposition.

Yes I rate Halfpenny, Bowe, and North over the 2017, 2021, 2009, and 2005 lot.

Halfpenny was the best fullback in the world in 2013. North was arguably the best player in the world.

Keenan, Lowe & Freeman wouldn’t make a World 15 first or second team. Kinghorn when fit is potentially the best fullback in the world, but he isn’t healthy.

 

[Saintjay]

Yes I rate Halfpenny, Bowe, and North over the 2017, 2021, 2009, and 2005 lot.

Halfpenny was the best fullback in the world in 2013. North was arguably the best player in the world.

Keenan, Lowe & Freeman wouldn't make a World 15 first or second team. Kinghorn when fit is potentially the best fullback in the world, but he isn't healthy.

Didn't the 2005 Lions have Jason Robinson and Shane Williams?

Not sure I'd take Halfpenny or Bowe above either of those two.

 

[Duck a l'Orange]

Yes I rate Halfpenny, Bowe, and North over the 2017, 2021, 2009, and 2005 lot.

Halfpenny was the best fullback in the world in 2013. North was arguably the best player in the world.

Keenan, Lowe & Freeman wouldn't make a World 15 first or second team. Kinghorn when fit is potentially the best fullback in the world, but he isn't healthy.

Okay, makes a bit more sense taking the players complete careers overall, but I'm very much thinking of their performances specifically on each tour.

Not sure I'd say Halfpenny was the best fullback in the world in 2013 either. Ben Smith takes it for me. Best player in the world is totally subjective and sort of irrelevant outside of position, but Ben Smith, Kieran Reid, Richie McCaw, Eben Etzebeth, were all pretty unassailable at that time. North doesn't take that for me either.

 

[big ginger 8]

Think Bowe is a bit of a forgotten man these days (apart from his hilarious soundbites) but from 09-13/14 he was consistently one of the best wingers around.

 

[ncurd]

Yes I rate Halfpenny, Bowe, and North over the 2017, 2021, 2009, and 2005 lot.

Halfpenny was the best fullback in the world in 2013. North was arguably the best player in the world.

Keenan, Lowe & Freeman wouldn't make a World 15 first or second team. Kinghorn when fit is potentially the best fullback in the world, but he isn't healthy.

North best player in the world?


Was never even nominated.

Didn't the 2005 Lions have Jason Robinson and Shane Williams?

Not sure I'd take Halfpenny or Bowe above either of those two.

Also this!

 

[Rugbyfan564]

Australia v British and Irish Lions: Garry Ringrose decision shows concussion focus - Ugo Monye

Garry Ringrose's withdrawal from the British and Irish Lions team to face Australia shows how seriously current players take concussion, says former wing Ugo Monye.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[ChicagoKid]

Didn't the 2005 Lions have Jason Robinson and Shane Williams?

Not sure I'd take Halfpenny or Bowe above either of those two.

Sacrilegious, I know, but Shane Williams is overrated to me. There are several players like him who, if they played in the SH, wouldn't generate half the buzz.

I look at someone like AWJ and think he might have been lucky to get 60-70 caps for the All Blacks or Springboks because he would have only started due to injury.

My general rule is, the farther you get from London, both distance-wise and culturally, the more underrated players become.

@dirty harry and @Welsh Exile are probably sharpening their pitchforks, but I stand by it.

 

[Groundhog]

Think Bowe is a bit of a forgotten man these days (apart from his hilarious soundbites) but from 09-13/14 he was consistently one of the best wingers around.

Bowe remains the Irish back 3 GOAT.

Also.... any excuse