USA news & politics

[dirty harry]

As I said, none of this was my point (though I'm pretty sure Trump blows any president out the water with how much he's spent on security) it was about motivations behind actions that make them good or not.

For example, do you think it was a good thing that Jimmy Saville set up charities? I mean, that was a net positive to some kids, right?

Are you saying, nobody benefitted from Savilles charities and fundraising?

Saville did heinous things, but factually a lot of people benefited from his charity work, especially the millions of pounds he helped raise across the country.

Both of those things can be true, there are dozens, maybe hundreds of children who were helped by the building of the spinal injury hospital, to them, that fundraising was a good.

You enjoy literary works by Charles Dickens? Does the fact he abused his wife, and God knows how many other women and children change the fact that his works are a net positive to the art?

 

[Bada-Bing!]

Can’t believe you’re bringing up Savile and his charity work. That was clearly a cover for his heinous crimes. One good thing doesn’t excuse his misdeeds. Can’t even listen to that tune of his show without feeling

 

[AlRums]

First of all I would say net benefit is really pushing it. $1 billion is a drop in the ocean of Americas GDP so a few hundred grand a year is really insignificant to the point it's not even worth considering.

Secondly, and more importantly, in my opinion if you're going to attribute a moral good to a certain action you have to look at the motivation behind said action and not just the outcome.

For example, I could go down to my local homeless shelter to help out but if my reason for doing that was only to bang a woman who works there then even though it may have resulted in some positive outcomes for some homeless people it's a bit of a stretch to say what I'm doing is morally commendable. I would even argue that in most cases, the motivation behind something is more important than the outcomes.

If I went to the same homeless shelter but for this time honourable reasons but let's say I made a mistake and overfed one person which resulted in other people going without (bad outcome) that ranks higher on the moral scale, imo, than someone who has an ulterior motive but didn't make any mistakes feeding people.

Let's get it right, he saved the American taxpayers NOTHING over his salary. It was still paid but went to charity. Now with him trying to stop tax exemption of so many charities it probably will come back as tax in spades

 

[dirty harry]

Let's get it right, he saved the American taxpayers NOTHING over his salary. It was still paid but went to charity. Now with him trying to stop tax exemption of so many charities it probably will come back as tax in spades

Oh that's right I've forgot about that...

Today, President Donald J. Trump demonstrated his dedication to America’s heroes of tomorrow by announcing his second-quarter salary will be donated to the Department of Education. The funds will be used to host a Science, Technology, Engineering, and Math (STEM)-focused camp for students

That's a commendable act no?

 

[AlRums]

Yeah but he's tea total

So am I, I Iove alcohol, but hate tea!!

 

[Yulia]

So am I, I Iove alcohol, but hate tea!!

If I translated correctly, "teetotal" is rather someone who doesn't drink alcohol

 

[AlRums]

Especially when you consider he cost the taxpayer vastly more than that whilst in office with all his golfing etc... If he had a concern about saving the American people money, he wouldn't have charged his security services extortionate rates to stay at his properties.

It points to him clearly not giving a damn about how much he cost the taxpayers.

This is just the bill for golf. He charged the government millions for accomodation for his entourage and SS security in his first term alone, always at resorts he owns.

While Trump slashes jobs, his golf trips are costing taxpayers millions | Mohamad Bazzi

The US president is condemning ‘waste’ and firing workers – while cashing in by traveling to his own resorts

www.theguardian.com

Add to that the $25+ million so far this term

 

[AlRums]

If I translated correctly, "teetotal" is rather someone who doesn't drink alcohol

You, who doesn't have English as a first language, were the first one to spell it right!!

All the others wrote "tea total"

 

[Welsh Exile]

Are you saying, nobody benefitted from Savilles charities and fundraising?

Saville did heinous things, but factually a lot of people benefited from his charity work, especially the millions of pounds he helped raise across the country.

Both of those things can be true, there are dozens, maybe hundreds of children who were helped by the building of the spinal injury hospital, to them, that fundraising was a good.

You enjoy literary works by Charles Dickens? Does the fact he abused his wife, and God knows how many other women and children change the fact that his works are a net positive to the art?

No, my exact point is that people did benefit out of it but if we're attributing that positive outcome to the man who enabled it then we should look at the reasons he did it and in this case they weren't good, even though some good came of it. I thought you would appreciate this nuance but your mind is “good thing happens is good”. Or maybe you're a utilitarian and will weigh it up by numbers and who's the most happy?

 

[AlRums]

Rep. LaMonica McIver indicted on federal charges after incident at New Jersey ICE detention facility

https://us.cnn.com/2025/06/10/politics/lamonica-mciver-indicted-ice-detention-center

 

[Amiga500]

To think that Trump has absolutely no idea that he's getting free daily cheerleading and defence from a litter picking Welsh wolf of Wall Street across the pond.

Learn something everyday. I didn't know Wolves also picked through bins.

I thought that was the realm of foxes.

Whether this particular example is a cunning fox who has just been elected professor of cunning at oxford university is another matter though.

 

[dirty harry]

Rep. LaMonica McIver indicted on federal charges after incident at New Jersey ICE detention facility

https://us.cnn.com/2025/06/10/politics/lamonica-mciver-indicted-ice-detention-center

This could be really trouble for her, she's on camera shouting 'circle the mayor' that's impeding and arrest, and she makes physical contact with an ICE officer in the scrum.

It'll be interesting to see if the contact is deemed intentional or not, but I don't think it will. She is probably more likely to get a slap on the wrist for calling to block the arrest though.

 

[dirty harry]

No, my exact point is that people did benefit out of it but if we're attributing that positive outcome to the man who enabled it then we should look at the reasons he did it and in this case they weren't good, even though some good came of it. I thought you would appreciate this nuance but your mind is “good thing happens is good”. Or maybe you're a utilitarian and will weigh it up by numbers and who's the most happy?

Your totally ignoring the nuance though...

Bad people do good things...

A young child saved by the Spinal injury hospital helped by the money raised from Saville, perceives that as 100% good. Would you whisper in his ear that he benefited from a rapist? No you wouldn't, youd celebrate the good in what happened.

The nuance is there is no good or bad, there both, and everything in between.

You can hte Trump, but acknowledge the 250k he donated to the DOE was good, and you can commendable that no?

 

[Flankers' paradise]

Your totally ignoring the nuance though...

Bad people do good things...

A young child saved by the Spinal injury hospital helped by the money raised from Saville, perceives that as 100% good. Would you whisper in his ear that he benefited from a rapist? No you wouldn't, youd celebrate the good in what happened.

The nuance is there is no good or bad, there both, and everything in between.

You can hte Trump, but acknowledge the 250k he donated to the DOE was good, and you can commendable that no?

offering the doe 250k right after presenting his budget which cuts the DOE budget by something like 6.5 billion

his donation has had the effect intended on someone like you though... "oh, what a good guy". that £250k isn't a donation, it's a public misconception fee

 

[dirty harry]

offering the doe 250k right after presenting his budget which cuts the DOE budget by something like 6.5 billion

his donation has had the effect intended on someone like you though... "oh, what a good guy". that £250k isn't a donation, it's a public misconception fee

And this would be fare, if he donated his salary after the cuts...

But he hasn't. His salary donation funded a camp for children to explore STEM. Winding down the DOE after the fact, doesn't make that camp any less of a good thing for the children who attended no?

Why are you all going to so much length, and showing much cognitive dissonance to avoid commending actions by Trump that are factually a net positive.

Welsh literally commended Hitlers building of highways, then talked about how he could find anything for the same in Trump lol. Look at how crazy that is, such irrational thought has to be challenged!

 

[Welsh Exile]

Your totally ignoring the nuance though...

Bad people do good things...

A young child saved by the Spinal injury hospital helped by the money raised from Saville, perceives that as 100% good. Would you whisper in his ear that he benefited from a rapist? No you wouldn't, youd celebrate the good in what happened.

The nuance is there is no good or bad, there both, and everything in between.

You can hte Trump, but acknowledge the 250k he donated to the DOE was good, and you can commendable that no?

No, in the same way I wouldn’t congratulate Saville on setting up charities so he could nonce off kids, regardless of whether he didn’t abuse every child he came across. I’m talking about attributing moral good to something or someone not just looking at outcomes.

 

[dirty harry]

No, in the same way I wouldn’t congratulate Saville on setting up charities so he could nonce off kids, regardless of whether he didn’t abuse every child he came across. I’m talking about attributing moral good to something or someone not just looking at outcomes.

So the children saved at the Spinal injury hospital, that was saved in part by Savilles fundraising, you wouldn't commend that? Savilles role in that fundraising is bad, because he committed heinous acts elsewhere?

Your absolutely only thinking in a binary, Saville bad, therefore you can't congratulate or comend any act he committed. So every act of Savilles must be disowned?

As there is no such thing as the perfect person, and we all do bad things, at what point does anyone get any commendation from you? It seems to me that you will just argue non stop to avoid giving Trump the tiniest amount of commendation, and that's why MAGA make accusations that this hate isn't rational.

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Enlightened centrism is so lame

 

[dirty harry]

Enlightened centrism is so lame

Not enlightened, and certainly not a centrist...

Beating Trump, and the wave of right wing sentiment sweeping the west, certainly involves more rationale and empathy than is currently being shown, mostly because that lack of rationale or empathy is failing hard!

 

[TRF_Olyy]

Not enlightened, and certainly not a centrist...

Literally your post history: