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UK Election Debate No.1

An Tarbh

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Right thought I'd keep this separate from the election thread. About time the UK caught up with the rest of the world and had election debates.

Still very early in the campaign and the Tories numbers aren't yet strong enough it would seem to be taking over, you'd expect that to change tonight as this debate is surely a train wreck waiting to happen for Gordon Brown, Cameron or Dave as he likes to be called should wipe the floor with him.

Should be worth the watch though.
 
Have just started to watch this... First topic Immigration... very strong debate... not sure who came out best tho...
 
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I really don't think I could hate David Cameron more, he makes me cringe when he speaks, just so insincere. I just want to deck him whenever he speaks.
 
Wow, it normally takes 6 generations of hearty, Northern coal-dust in your DNA to think like that.
 
I think the way in which a prime minister is elected is an odd one.
For example, in my area our MP is a tory, and he does a decent job of running it, so the majority of people will continue to vote for him, however the majority of people wouldn't want Cameron to be prime minister, though they're inadvertantly voting for him.
I understand that the Governement, therefore the Prime Minister, is due to who has the majority of the houses of parliament seats, but i still think a vote for who you want running your area, then a vote for who you want in charge of the country would make more sense, though i suppose it wouldn't really work if the majority of parliament wasn't behind them.
 
I'm the opposite. My area is LAbour, but my MP is ******* useless. However in the general scheme of things, I'd far rather Brown than Cameron so I'm voting Labour.
 
Anyone who votes for Brown just because they don't like Cameroon is a cnut. End of debate.
 
No, I'm voting for the only party which has a realistic chance of getting a majority government and can boot out the ******* socialists because of what they've done over the past 13 years to:

- The Economic Market
- Taxes
- Social Decline
- Taxes
- Dodgy Dossiers (WMDs to all)
- Taxes
- Unemployment
- Taxes
- Manufacturing and Production
- Taxes
- "Single tier society" - Instead of nice places and shoddy places, we all now live in a shithole.
- Taxes
- Fuel costs
- Taxes
- Penalties on honest people who want to work
- Taxes
- Leftism
- Taxes
- Immigration

And the rest when I can think of them. You apparently want to call Cameroon a cnut because he speaks with a bit of a posh accent.


Or let me guess... "If we can get Rage against the Machine to Number 1 we can get the Lib Dems into office" Facebook campaign member...
 
No, I'm voting for the only party which has a realistic chance of getting a majority government and can boot out the ******* socialists because of what they've done over the past 13 years to:

- The Economic Market
- Taxes
- Social Decline
- Taxes
- Dodgy Dossiers (WMDs to all)
- Taxes
- Unemployment
- Taxes
- Manufacturing and Production
- Taxes
- "Single tier society" - Instead of nice places and shoddy places, we all now live in a shithole.
- Taxes
- Fuel costs
- Taxes
- Penalties on honest people who want to work
- Taxes
- Leftism
- Taxes
- Immigration

And the rest when I can think of them. You apparently want to call Cameroon a cnut because he speaks with a bit of a posh accent.


Or let me guess... "If we can get Rage against the Machine to Number 1 we can get the Lib Dems into office" Facebook campaign member...

Chris Brewer for PM. That is the true end of story.......and possibly of Britain. ;)
 
No, I'm voting for the only party which has a realistic chance of getting a majority government and can boot out the ******* socialists because of what they've done over the past 13 years to:

- The Economic Market
- Taxes
- Social Decline
- Taxes
- Dodgy Dossiers (WMDs to all)
- Taxes
- Unemployment
- Taxes
- Manufacturing and Production
- Taxes
- "Single tier society" - Instead of nice places and shoddy places, we all now live in a shithole.
- Taxes
- Fuel costs
- Taxes
- Penalties on honest people who want to work
- Taxes
- Leftism
- Taxes
- Immigration

And the rest when I can think of them. You apparently want to call Cameroon a cnut because he speaks with a bit of a posh accent.


Or let me guess... "If we can get Rage against the Machine to Number 1 we can get the Lib Dems into office" Facebook campaign member...

Neither. Blair, Mandleson and a lot of Labour characters have posh accents, that's got **** all to do with it.

Economy: I've said this once and I'll say it again, no one has a right to complain about the economy ******* up because for most of the Labour government we've been living it large in a massive boom. If you're going to subscribe to the free market, which we pretty much all do in Britain today, we all have to accept the consequences. Our market is far more deregulated than others in Europe, hence we've suffered more, and if you remember we benefitted much more a few years ago. The fact that there was a global depression leads me to believe that the fault does not lie solely on the shoulders of one man from a country that is fairly insignificant next to the world's biggest economies.

Taxes: Well, taxation and NI are increasing atm to pay for the bankers. If Cameron gets in charge, he'll have to fund any tax reductions with budget cuts, which means that you'll start moaning that your kids' school is ****, your local hospital is ****, your roads are ****. Moan all you like about taxes, they pay for the luxuries we take for granted. And if we have a look about the biggest achievement of the Labour government, the NHS, and you'll see your taxes aren't wasted.

My 3 local hospitals are West Middlesex, Charing Cross, and Hammersmith. The first two I went to a fair amount when I was a kid, and they were ******* horrible. Dirty, disgusting places with incredibly long waiting times. Now? I've worked in Hammersmith Hospital, and it is a clean, modern hospital with great facilities. I've been for treatment in Charing Cross and can say the same thing. And I picked my Dad up from West Middlesex last week, and he was looked after great there, which is another modern and clean hospital. Maybe the rest of the country's different, but we've got world class healthcare as far as I'm concerned.

Social Decline: Where? The only social decline I can see is in things like WAGs, Simon Cowell and Jodie Marsh. That's a massive decline in popular culture, and it's been largely enacted by the tabloid media, who happen to be mainly rightwing. Chavs - blown out of proportion, they're ridiculed when they're bad and idolised by the same tabloids when they're good at things like football and singing. Gun crime/ stabbings - affect a minority of teenagers in London and Manchester. Crime on the whole has gone down.

Dodgy Dossiers - Fair enough, I didn't want to go to war in Iraq one bit and this was appalling. But the Lib Dems were the only mainstream party not to support the war.

Unemployment: See economy.

Fuel Costs: Have been rising since the 70s. Have rocketed recently because of the economy.

Manufacturing and Production: Tell me about it. My uncle runs a car factory in the West Midlands and its one of the last ones left, he;'s had to make them specialise just to keep afloat, and that was even before the depression. But the loss of manufacturing industries is because labour and costs are cheaper in the 3rd world. If we want to go back to Dickensian times and employ 000s of people for 10p per day, then go ahead, I just don't think it's going to be popular. The only way we can compete nowadas is employing a workforce of illegal immigrants because they aren't subject to the minimum wage, but seeing as you don't like immigrants...

Immigration: What do people fear from immigration? If you can't get a job and someone who doesn't even speak English as their first langugae can, then bad luck, that's your problem. Get some more skills, or don't ask for so much money. Hardly anyone in London complains about immigration. And funnily enough, it's here that immigration has affected most. The sort of people who complain live in mainly white working class areas and use immigrants as a target to blame their own ineptitudes on.

Penalties on decent working people: what penalties? Straight out of the Daily Mail. Like pretty much all your opinions. If you don't read the Daily Mail, say now, otherwise my case is rested and there's no use having any further debate.
 
Labour brought a culture of deb to the younger generation, that is their legacy.

The FSA did nothing to curb the trading in mortgage backed securities which led to this, nor did the BOE do anything to curb the year after year house price inflation brought about due to the expansion in credit due to the former.

The treasury was perfectly happy for both practices to continue without regulation (light hand approach with the city etc) as the tax revenues they generated allowed the public sector to expand to an extent where unemployment was reduced. The public sector employed the unemployables.

Rapid house price inflation in the UK allowed for mortgage equity withdraw to soar fueling the UKs consumer economy.

Eventually when the defaults on the repackaged sub prime mortgages the US increased, the value of the MBS came into question, spooking the worldwide financial markets and causing a global contraction in credit.

As credit contracted, the house price inflation based labour "miracle economy" shrank.

Of course Gordon leans on his friend Merv and QE intends to expand credit but the law of unforeseen (f**king obvious) circumstances sees the majority of the money used to purchase the gilts go into the spooked banking systems reserves and not lent.

So Gordon borrows and borrows to sustain the same miracle economy before with the problem being that the miracle economy was a freak system based on bullsh*t.

Labours big failure - PFI was intended to offload the risk of large developments onto private companies. So the private company build the hospital and the local authority "rents" it back - buy now pay later. Problem is that since these services truely are too big to fail - when the PFI company goes bust or can't complete on time or at all, the government foots the bill. Casing example London Underground. Not to mention that these private companies run for profit, so you pay more. PFI projects currently total 2-300billion pounds in addition to the national debt, money which obviously has to be paid.

In my mind the banking system should have been allowed to fail, with the FSA compensating the savers. Instead the taxpayer underwrote their liabilities of the banks which were a couple of orders of magnitude greater.

So Labour have left the younger generation with houses they can't afford, National debt for the rest of our lifetime and PFI debt for the next 30 years.

Sure, if you don't want to work, don't have a job or earn very little - vote labour. Either way the people who actually contribute to the economy will be paying for this 13 years until they die.

The NHS is in a **** state- haemoraging money via an over-complicated management system yet they can't clean the bogs properly on the wards and patients are dying as a result of the infections they pick up in hospital. If that is a modernised NHs then I certainly don't see it as anything to be proud of.

Pensioners are still freezing to death. Rich pernsioners get the same as poor ones.

The minimum wage is ********- it has led to lots of unscrupulous employers paying people cash in hand, and was directly responsible for closing 2 factories that belonged to one of my friends former employers. Over 300 redundant as a result.

I don't know many teachers who have much good to say about the education system. Most of them are more worried about getting assaulted by their own pupils.

Oh and as for the nil unemployment figures - looks like you've been suckered into Labour spin. There were nearly 2 million unemployed, but disguised as 'Jobseekers', thats before you count those on benefits, which didn't get included. Coffee. Smell it.
 
Neither. Blair, Mandleson and a lot of Labour characters have posh accents, that's got **** all to do with it.

Economy: I've said this once and I'll say it again, no one has a right to complain about the economy ******* up because for most of the Labour government we've been living it large in a massive boom. If you're going to subscribe to the free market, which we pretty much all do in Britain today, we all have to accept the consequences. Our market is far more deregulated than others in Europe, hence we've suffered more, and if you remember we benefitted much more a few years ago. The fact that there was a global depression leads me to believe that the fault does not lie solely on the shoulders of one man from a country that is fairly insignificant next to the world's biggest economies.
That is so wrong. Very few in the UK subscribe to the free market. The housing market is subsidised and regulated. The health service is the UK version of the Red Army. Education is run by commisars. The justice system operates in practical secrecy (ever seen a case in court? try and find one). 53% of the economy is funded by the state. The public sector thinks fully guaranteed pensions are a human right. There's nothing free about that.

Your delusion on this point ranks with your notion that the UK is wealthy.

Taxes: Well, taxation and NI are increasing atm to pay for the bankers. If Cameron gets in charge, he'll have to fund any tax reductions with budget cuts, which means that you'll start moaning that your kids' school is ****, your local hospital is ****, your roads are ****. Moan all you like about taxes, they pay for the luxuries we take for granted. And if we have a look about the biggest achievement of the Labour government, the NHS, and you'll see your taxes aren't wasted.

My 3 local hospitals are West Middlesex, Charing Cross, and Hammersmith. The first two I went to a fair amount when I was a kid, and they were ******* horrible. Dirty, disgusting places with incredibly long waiting times. Now? I've worked in Hammersmith Hospital, and it is a clean, modern hospital with great facilities. I've been for treatment in Charing Cross and can say the same thing. And I picked my Dad up from West Middlesex last week, and he was looked after great there, which is another modern and clean hospital. Maybe the rest of the country's different, but we've got world class healthcare as far as I'm concerned.
I'm sure the health services are a hell of alot better than they used to be. That's where taxes are going. Can taxes sustain 1.5 million people in this service? Nuh uh. But the bond market will deliver a much better answer than you or I.
Social Decline: Where? The only social decline I can see is in things like WAGs, Simon Cowell and Jodie Marsh. That's a massive decline in popular culture, and it's been largely enacted by the tabloid media, who happen to be mainly rightwing. Chavs - blown out of proportion, they're ridiculed when they're bad and idolised by the same tabloids when they're good at things like football and singing. Gun crime/ stabbings - affect a minority of teenagers in London and Manchester. Crime on the whole has gone down.
Newspapers. You can stop reading them if you like.

Real social decline comes from having most children in this country subsidised by the state. Put it another way, people who work for a living can't afford to have as many children as dole scroungers. Weird, yes?
Dodgy Dossiers - Fair enough, I didn't want to go to war in Iraq one bit and this was appalling. But the Lib Dems were the only mainstream party not to support the war.
But when you feel as strongly about an issue like this who can you really trust to represent your interests?
Fuel Costs: Have been rising since the 70s. Have rocketed recently because of the economy.
No - speculation in the energy markets comes from central bank zero interest rate policies - institutional investment managers can't make their targets by investing in safe assets like government bonds because the returns have been made artificially low, so they pour their investors' money into risky stuff like oil, even when demand for the stuff is decreasing. Weird, yes? This is part of your beloved Gordon's "no more boom and bust" - it went boom, then it went bust, and we're just pretending that the second bit didn't happen ... for now.
Manufacturing and Production: Tell me about it. My uncle runs a car factory in the West Midlands and its one of the last ones left, he;'s had to make them specialise just to keep afloat, and that was even before the depression. But the loss of manufacturing industries is because labour and costs are cheaper in the 3rd world. If we want to go back to Dickensian times and employ 000s of people for 10p per day, then go ahead, I just don't think it's going to be popular. The only way we can compete nowadas is employing a workforce of illegal immigrants because they aren't subject to the minimum wage, but seeing as you don't like immigrants...
We could lower our own standards. Or we could tell China to fairly value its currency and adopt equal labour and environmental standards to us - otherwise we don't buy. I guess there will be a trade war.
Immigration: What do people fear from immigration? If you can't get a job and someone who doesn't even speak English as their first langugae can, then bad luck, that's your problem. Get some more skills, or don't ask for so much money. Hardly anyone in London complains about immigration. And funnily enough, it's here that immigration has affected most. The sort of people who complain live in mainly white working class areas and use immigrants as a target to blame their own ineptitudes on.
I love walking around London because of the variety. Illegals have to be kicked out. Benefits have to be limited. About 2 million public sector workers - many playing to the immigrant market - have to be sacked. It's always open to them to ... emigrate!
Penalties on decent working people: what penalties? Straight out of the Daily Mail. Like pretty much all your opinions. If you don't read the Daily Mail, say now, otherwise my case is rested and there's no use having any further debate.
Get rid of tax credits and we'll see who are the decent working people. Your beloved Gordon has left many working class people thinking, What's the point in working? Believe me, I see it regularly. Debt charity workers are disgusted at the pointlessness of trying to get single mums on benefits back to work. Gordo would call it anti-intuitive. I call it perverse.

In sum: if you vote for Labour you are a fool. Find a LibDem who isn't a tax 'n spend freak. Find a Tory who believes in justice. Find an independent who can realistically represent your interests. Please don't let the Project continue, because it will bankrupt the country and cast us even further under their control.

Bullitt makes the best point - young people have been completely screwed over. People in their teens and 20s have very little hope of decent wages, decent housing, decent education for their families - and yet they are expected to fund the excesses of today through their future taxes. NOT going to happen. I understand that you want the Project to succeed, but don't lose sight of justice.

Here's a good question for a candidate: When are you going to prosecute the bankers? If the prosecutions come, then the politicians responsible for the Great Scam will fall soon after.
 
Wow ... this thread has gone quiet !!!

Just under 48 hours away till it all kicks off.

I'll be voting Lib Dem in my area because I can safely say that Mark Williams has been doing a sterling job as MP and deserves another go.
 
I was having a good laught at the #ImVotingLabour twitter feed yesterday.
 
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