Menu
Forums
New posts
Search forums
What's new
New posts
Latest activity
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles and first posts only
Search titles only
By:
New posts
Search forums
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Help Support The Rugby Forum :
Forums
Rugby Union
General Rugby Union
[TRF World XV] Head Coach
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Big Ewis" data-source="post: 636737" data-attributes="member: 57076"><p>I disagree with this. You can't just say Lancaster has done far more than Cotter has just under pretext he spends relatively little time with the team he coaches. Coaching quality isn't measured by a time spent with team/results ratio. If Lancaster had more time, maybe he'd get the same results, and Cotter less time the same results; the point is they both are good coaches, have both fully fulfilled their plans and seen it established and ripe, and their schemes work as they win games against big teams, both in their respective environment.</p><p></p><p>But you can't just say "Lancaster has done more, or even '<u>done far more</u>' ".</p><p></p><p>And about England playing well in unison, they certainly do. In fact, just last year we couldn't pick one guy who'd make the World XV or even all that close from England and yet they were the best team out of Europe. But just like the argument in favor of the Boudjelal army in Toulon Var, money gets you only so much, team sports are dominated by he who brings a team together and brings them together well. Clermont are not an army of mercenaries. They might have good players, but many many teams in Europe have "good players", and those alone won't get you much if you can't oil the machine properly and play good rugby in every aspect of the game, which Clermont does.</p><p>Just look at when France plays lately: they've got some of Fofana, Kayser, Domingo, Debaty, Parra but all those don't play NEARLY as well when in bleus as when in yellow.</p><p></p><p>As for the choking thing, perhaps...I only accept the term of choking when a team is expected to win, i.e. comprehensively good enough to rise above the adversity of matchups.</p><p>But winning the Top 14 is one heck of an endeavor. It's not like Prem or Rabo where the top 2 teams beat everybody else. Just look at this table, the current as of today:</p><p>[TABLE="class: statstab, width: 100%"]</p><p><tbody>[TR="class: infoboxheadlite"]</p><p>[TH] [/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]Pts[/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]J[/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]G[/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]N[/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]P[/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]p[/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]c[/TH]</p><p>[TH="class: textcenter"]+/-[/TH]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: altrow , textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/montpellier/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Montypellier</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]70[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]14[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]9[/TD]</p><p>[TD]611[/TD]</p><p>[TD]493[/TD]</p><p>[TD]118[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]2[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/toulon/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Rugby Club Toulonnais</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]69[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]14[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]9[/TD]</p><p>[TD]597[/TD]</p><p>[TD]420[/TD]</p><p>[TD]177[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: altrow , textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]3[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/asm-clermont-auvergne/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">ASM Clermont</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]69[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]14[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]9[/TD]</p><p>[TD]628[/TD]</p><p>[TD]456[/TD]</p><p>[TD]172[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]4[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/racing-metro-92/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Racing Métro 92</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]65[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]14[/TD]</p><p>[TD]2[/TD]</p><p>[TD]8[/TD]</p><p>[TD]427[/TD]</p><p>[TD]398[/TD]</p><p>[TD]29[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: altrow , textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]5[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/toulouse/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Stade Toulousain</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]62[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]12[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]11[/TD]</p><p>[TD]491[/TD]</p><p>[TD]415[/TD]</p><p>[TD]76[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]6[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/castres-olympique/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Castres Olympique</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]62[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]12[/TD]</p><p>[TD]2[/TD]</p><p>[TD]10[/TD]</p><p>[TD]532[/TD]</p><p>[TD]450[/TD]</p><p>[TD]82[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: altrow , textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]7[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/bordeaux-begles/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Union Bordeaux-Bègles</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]59[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]12[/TD]</p><p>[TD]0[/TD]</p><p>[TD]12[/TD]</p><p>[TD]552[/TD]</p><p>[TD]516[/TD]</p><p>[TD]36[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]8[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/stade-francais/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Stade Fran-macon</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]59[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]13[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]10[/TD]</p><p>[TD]477[/TD]</p><p>[TD]456[/TD]</p><p>[TD]21[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: altrow , textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]9[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/brive/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">CA Brive-Corrèze</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]56[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]10[/TD]</p><p>[TD]2[/TD]</p><p>[TD]12[/TD]</p><p>[TD]441[/TD]</p><p>[TD]440[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]10[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/grenoble/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Grenoble</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]51[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]11[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]12[/TD]</p><p>[TD]436[/TD]</p><p>[TD]566[/TD]</p><p>[TD]-130[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: altrow , textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]11[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/perpignan/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Perpignan</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]50[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]10[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]13[/TD]</p><p>[TD]433[/TD]</p><p>[TD]522[/TD]</p><p>[TD]-89[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]12[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/aviron-bayonnais/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Aviron Bayonnais</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]48[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]10[/TD]</p><p>[TD]0[/TD]</p><p>[TD]14[/TD]</p><p>[TD]380[/TD]</p><p>[TD]515[/TD]</p><p>[TD]-135[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: altrow , textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]13[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/oyonnax/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Oyonnax</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]48[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]11[/TD]</p><p>[TD]0[/TD]</p><p>[TD]13[/TD]</p><p>[TD]420[/TD]</p><p>[TD]524[/TD]</p><p>[TD]-104[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p>[TR="class: textcenter"]</p><p>[TD]14[/TD]</p><p>[TD]<a href="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/biarritz-olympique/teamcenter.shtml" target="_blank">Biarritz Olympique</a></p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[TD]26[/TD]</p><p>[TD]24[/TD]</p><p>[TD]4[/TD]</p><p>[TD]1[/TD]</p><p>[TD]19[/TD]</p><p>[TD]335[/TD]</p><p>[TD]589[/TD]</p><p>[TD]-254</p><p>[/TD]</p><p>[/TR]</p><p></tbody>[/TABLE]</p><p> </p><p>The top teams have 9 losses. Last year, Toulon was almost certain to win it all, if not them then Clermont for sure for sure for sure, and BAM a third challenger appears and beats em both. The former two didn't choke, they were just beaten by a better team, Castres were awesome in those two games.</p><p></p><p>And anyways, Clermont's choking has nothing to do with the headcoach, it's the players that take the blame. Cotter prepared them as best he could, but at the end of the day it's the players who play on the field.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Big Ewis, post: 636737, member: 57076"] I disagree with this. You can't just say Lancaster has done far more than Cotter has just under pretext he spends relatively little time with the team he coaches. Coaching quality isn't measured by a time spent with team/results ratio. If Lancaster had more time, maybe he'd get the same results, and Cotter less time the same results; the point is they both are good coaches, have both fully fulfilled their plans and seen it established and ripe, and their schemes work as they win games against big teams, both in their respective environment. But you can't just say "Lancaster has done more, or even '[U]done far more[/U]' ". And about England playing well in unison, they certainly do. In fact, just last year we couldn't pick one guy who'd make the World XV or even all that close from England and yet they were the best team out of Europe. But just like the argument in favor of the Boudjelal army in Toulon Var, money gets you only so much, team sports are dominated by he who brings a team together and brings them together well. Clermont are not an army of mercenaries. They might have good players, but many many teams in Europe have "good players", and those alone won't get you much if you can't oil the machine properly and play good rugby in every aspect of the game, which Clermont does. Just look at when France plays lately: they've got some of Fofana, Kayser, Domingo, Debaty, Parra but all those don't play NEARLY as well when in bleus as when in yellow. As for the choking thing, perhaps...I only accept the term of choking when a team is expected to win, i.e. comprehensively good enough to rise above the adversity of matchups. But winning the Top 14 is one heck of an endeavor. It's not like Prem or Rabo where the top 2 teams beat everybody else. Just look at this table, the current as of today: [TABLE="class: statstab, width: 100%"] <tbody>[TR="class: infoboxheadlite"] [TH] [/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]Pts[/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]J[/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]G[/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]N[/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]P[/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]p[/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]c[/TH] [TH="class: textcenter"]+/-[/TH] [/TR] [TR="class: altrow , textcenter"] [TD]1[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/montpellier/teamcenter.shtml"]Montypellier[/URL] [/TD] [TD]70[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]9[/TD] [TD]611[/TD] [TD]493[/TD] [TD]118[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: textcenter"] [TD]2[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/toulon/teamcenter.shtml"]Rugby Club Toulonnais[/URL] [/TD] [TD]69[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]9[/TD] [TD]597[/TD] [TD]420[/TD] [TD]177[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: altrow , textcenter"] [TD]3[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/asm-clermont-auvergne/teamcenter.shtml"]ASM Clermont[/URL] [/TD] [TD]69[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]9[/TD] [TD]628[/TD] [TD]456[/TD] [TD]172[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: textcenter"] [TD]4[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/racing-metro-92/teamcenter.shtml"]Racing Métro 92[/URL] [/TD] [TD]65[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]8[/TD] [TD]427[/TD] [TD]398[/TD] [TD]29[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: altrow , textcenter"] [TD]5[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/toulouse/teamcenter.shtml"]Stade Toulousain[/URL] [/TD] [TD]62[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]11[/TD] [TD]491[/TD] [TD]415[/TD] [TD]76[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: textcenter"] [TD]6[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/castres-olympique/teamcenter.shtml"]Castres Olympique[/URL] [/TD] [TD]62[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]532[/TD] [TD]450[/TD] [TD]82[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: altrow , textcenter"] [TD]7[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/bordeaux-begles/teamcenter.shtml"]Union Bordeaux-Bègles[/URL] [/TD] [TD]59[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]552[/TD] [TD]516[/TD] [TD]36[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: textcenter"] [TD]8[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/stade-francais/teamcenter.shtml"]Stade Fran-macon[/URL] [/TD] [TD]59[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]13[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]477[/TD] [TD]456[/TD] [TD]21[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: altrow , textcenter"] [TD]9[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/brive/teamcenter.shtml"]CA Brive-Corrèze[/URL] [/TD] [TD]56[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]2[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]441[/TD] [TD]440[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: textcenter"] [TD]10[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/grenoble/teamcenter.shtml"]Grenoble[/URL] [/TD] [TD]51[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]11[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]12[/TD] [TD]436[/TD] [TD]566[/TD] [TD]-130[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: altrow , textcenter"] [TD]11[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/perpignan/teamcenter.shtml"]Perpignan[/URL] [/TD] [TD]50[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]13[/TD] [TD]433[/TD] [TD]522[/TD] [TD]-89[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: textcenter"] [TD]12[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/aviron-bayonnais/teamcenter.shtml"]Aviron Bayonnais[/URL] [/TD] [TD]48[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]10[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]14[/TD] [TD]380[/TD] [TD]515[/TD] [TD]-135[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: altrow , textcenter"] [TD]13[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/oyonnax/teamcenter.shtml"]Oyonnax[/URL] [/TD] [TD]48[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]11[/TD] [TD]0[/TD] [TD]13[/TD] [TD]420[/TD] [TD]524[/TD] [TD]-104[/TD] [/TR] [TR="class: textcenter"] [TD]14[/TD] [TD][URL="http://www.rugbyrama.fr/rugby/equipes/biarritz-olympique/teamcenter.shtml"]Biarritz Olympique[/URL] [/TD] [TD]26[/TD] [TD]24[/TD] [TD]4[/TD] [TD]1[/TD] [TD]19[/TD] [TD]335[/TD] [TD]589[/TD] [TD]-254 [/TD] [/TR] </tbody>[/TABLE] The top teams have 9 losses. Last year, Toulon was almost certain to win it all, if not them then Clermont for sure for sure for sure, and BAM a third challenger appears and beats em both. The former two didn't choke, they were just beaten by a better team, Castres were awesome in those two games. And anyways, Clermont's choking has nothing to do with the headcoach, it's the players that take the blame. Cotter prepared them as best he could, but at the end of the day it's the players who play on the field. [/QUOTE]
Verification
Post reply
Forums
Rugby Union
General Rugby Union
[TRF World XV] Head Coach
Top