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TRF World XV 2014 [Poll on first post]
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<blockquote data-quote="Darwin" data-source="post: 695625" data-attributes="member: 24910"><p>I actually don't think Folau had a great end of year tour at all (unless of course we judge fullbacks solely by their metres run stat <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite2" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=";)" />). He was generally well contained, and his lack of kicking game was exposed by England and Ireland in particular. He was solid, but I don't think he was much better (if at all) than Smith (as I mentioned previously I would probably have picked Kearney as my "fullback of the end of year tour", though I though Mike Brown played pretty well too). </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't say anything along those lines. I simple think comparing players tackle breaking / line breaking stats based on the number of times they ran the ball is pretty logical. I'm not 'skewing' the statistics at all. I have simply summarized all the relevant stats so they are comparable. In my opinion it is far more relevant to compare metres/run or tackle breaks/run than to compare raw stats, as it corrects for the amount of ball a player receives. It is not remotely misleading. Indeed it is the way real statisticians work. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I'm not sure what your point is? I never said your should discount stats from single match, simply that you shouldn't read too much into a single match. That's exactly why I suggest that you look compare players stats for a whole tournament / season. My point is that metres gained isn't in my opinion as relevant as defenders beaten or tackles bust in assessing attacking ability, as it is much easier to artificially inflate this stat (particularly in a single match) than the other attacking stats. Why would I be "crowing like a rooster" if Smith made a huge number of metres in the Rugby Championship? Smith made more metres than any other player in Super Rugby, but that doesn't mean I think he was the best attacking player in Super Rugby.... </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>When did I remotely suggest this? I would imagine he does this frequently at all levels. Indeed I would imagine Folau has easily made more metres than any other player in world rugby this year. He has probably had more runs than any other player, and is the most dangerous attacking fullback in the game - those two things combined will certainly lead to a lot of running metres!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>And I've stated that I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion, and I can certainly see why you (or anyone else) would pick Folau at fullback. I haven't "shyed away" from anything - I have acknowledged that Folau is the better attacking player, but suggested that you are under-rating Smith's attacking ability (and backed this up with stats).</p><p></p><p>I (like many others) don't think Dagg should be the starting NZ fullback. But I don't think I bring Dagg down "unfairly". I judge Dagg the same way I judge all players - I think the AB's would be better starting Smith at fullback and Piutau on the wing so I state that. It's not unfair to point out that Dagg has some pretty obvious flaws in his game right now. I've pointed out numerous times that I can understand why the AB's selectors would pick him, and indeed mentioned that I myself would pick him if there was a RWC final tomorrow and Smith was unavailable. Anyways this thread isn't about Dagg.....</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I didn't mention offloading for the same reason I didn't mention passing/kicking/turnover stats - we were discussing ball running ability, and I don't consider offloading as ball running! There is no doubt that Folau makes far more offloads than Smith - indeed I would imagine Folau makes more offloads than anyone in the game not called Sonny Bill Williams.....</p><p></p><p>Surely we can agree that both Smith and Folau are valid choices for fullback of the year?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Darwin, post: 695625, member: 24910"] I actually don't think Folau had a great end of year tour at all (unless of course we judge fullbacks solely by their metres run stat ;)). He was generally well contained, and his lack of kicking game was exposed by England and Ireland in particular. He was solid, but I don't think he was much better (if at all) than Smith (as I mentioned previously I would probably have picked Kearney as my "fullback of the end of year tour", though I though Mike Brown played pretty well too). I didn't say anything along those lines. I simple think comparing players tackle breaking / line breaking stats based on the number of times they ran the ball is pretty logical. I'm not 'skewing' the statistics at all. I have simply summarized all the relevant stats so they are comparable. In my opinion it is far more relevant to compare metres/run or tackle breaks/run than to compare raw stats, as it corrects for the amount of ball a player receives. It is not remotely misleading. Indeed it is the way real statisticians work. I'm not sure what your point is? I never said your should discount stats from single match, simply that you shouldn't read too much into a single match. That's exactly why I suggest that you look compare players stats for a whole tournament / season. My point is that metres gained isn't in my opinion as relevant as defenders beaten or tackles bust in assessing attacking ability, as it is much easier to artificially inflate this stat (particularly in a single match) than the other attacking stats. Why would I be "crowing like a rooster" if Smith made a huge number of metres in the Rugby Championship? Smith made more metres than any other player in Super Rugby, but that doesn't mean I think he was the best attacking player in Super Rugby.... When did I remotely suggest this? I would imagine he does this frequently at all levels. Indeed I would imagine Folau has easily made more metres than any other player in world rugby this year. He has probably had more runs than any other player, and is the most dangerous attacking fullback in the game - those two things combined will certainly lead to a lot of running metres! And I've stated that I disagree, but you are entitled to your opinion, and I can certainly see why you (or anyone else) would pick Folau at fullback. I haven't "shyed away" from anything - I have acknowledged that Folau is the better attacking player, but suggested that you are under-rating Smith's attacking ability (and backed this up with stats). I (like many others) don't think Dagg should be the starting NZ fullback. But I don't think I bring Dagg down "unfairly". I judge Dagg the same way I judge all players - I think the AB's would be better starting Smith at fullback and Piutau on the wing so I state that. It's not unfair to point out that Dagg has some pretty obvious flaws in his game right now. I've pointed out numerous times that I can understand why the AB's selectors would pick him, and indeed mentioned that I myself would pick him if there was a RWC final tomorrow and Smith was unavailable. Anyways this thread isn't about Dagg..... I didn't mention offloading for the same reason I didn't mention passing/kicking/turnover stats - we were discussing ball running ability, and I don't consider offloading as ball running! There is no doubt that Folau makes far more offloads than Smith - indeed I would imagine Folau makes more offloads than anyone in the game not called Sonny Bill Williams..... Surely we can agree that both Smith and Folau are valid choices for fullback of the year? [/QUOTE]
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