the STORMERS thread

[TRF_stormer2010]

I thought it might be good to start getting the speculation going.

We've had 2 good seasons in 2010 and 2011 though we've fallen short on silverware. With the squad settled we should continue our good run but there are a couple of things that might cost us top place.. again.

- still a comparatively light tight 5 and we'll probably only get caught out in the big games when it matters
- losing Francois Louw disrupts our biggest strength in our well balanced backrow and we have no back-up fetcher
- still no world class halves means a lack of direction in attack; Duvenhage is pretty good but we have no depth at 9 while we have a raft of almost-good 10's
- lost a ton of firepower in the centers. here's hoping JdV finds form again and him and JdJ stay fit and firing
- losing a lot of talented plaers and getting only a handful in and those not really on top of the world.
- we win a lot of games each year but lose out on bonus points. nothing has happened to indicate anything will change. Pietersen at 15 is a step in the right direction though
- both Rassie and AC are among the favourite for Bok coach. Getting such short notice before the season starts would certainly affect us if either gets called up


My prediction is we end up somewhere around 5th and fall out of the race in the play-offs travelling.

 

[Darwin]

I thought it might be good to start getting the speculation going.

We've had 2 good seasons in 2010 and 2011 though we've fallen short on silverware. With the squad settled we should continue our good run but there are a couple of things that might cost us top place.. again.

- still a comparatively light tight 5 and we'll probably only get caught out in the big games when it matters
- losing Francois Louw disrupts our biggest strength in our well balanced backrow and we have no back-up fetcher
- still no world class halves means a lack of direction in attack; Duvenhage is pretty good but we have no depth at 9 while we have a raft of almost-good 10's
- lost a ton of firepower in the centers. here's hoping JdV finds form again and him and JdJ stay fit and firing
- losing a lot of talented plaers and getting only a handful in and those not really on top of the world.
- we win a lot of games each year but lose out on bonus points. nothing has happened to indicate anything will change. Pietersen at 15 is a step in the right direction though
- both Rassie and AC are among the favourite for Bok coach. Getting such short notice before the season starts would certainly affect us if either gets called up


My prediction is we end up somewhere around 5th and fall out of the race in the play-offs travelling.

I think it will be a close race between the Stormers and the Sharks for top spot in the South African conference. Assuming there aren't many injuries the tight-five should be pretty solid. I rate Brok Harris quite highly, Blaauw impressed me at times last season, and I understand Deon Carstens is signed this year too. Liebenburg is a good hooker, but I'm not a big fan of Dean Fourie - his lineout throwing can be a bit poor, and though he does look great at times running on the wing I would still rather see the likes of Habana, van der Heever or Aplon running with the ball out on the wing! I agree that Francois Louw is a massive loss. Not only was he a great player at this level, but because of the way he played (as a genuine fetcher) it brought the best out of Burger, as Burger was free to play a more wide ranging linking game (which I think is Burgers strength). When he is not playing alongside a genuine fetcher (which will likely be the case this season) Burger has to play a much tighter game, which I think lessens his effectiveness.

I actually think losing Januarie is a bit of a blessing, as it means Duvenhage will get to start every game at 9. The lack of depth in the halves is certainly an issue, so they will be hoping that Duvenhage and Grant stay fit. The rest of the backline looks very dangerous - the question is going to be which of the outside backs out of Habana, van der Heever, Aplon, and Joe Pieterson misses out.

What would your starting 22 look like assuming everyone was fit?

 

[Draggs]

If an outsider can cast his view in:
We all know the Stormers have wonderful backs capable of scoring plenty of tries, and they would dominate if they played in Pretoria, Bloem, or Durban. Once Andries Bekker's annual injury occurs, the Stormers scrum goes to pot and they struggle against the mildest of packs. Carstens is a good signing, but their current props just won't cut it. Backrow might be a worry with Louw out, as many have said.

Not sure about the forwards, but I'll nominate this backline:

09 Duvenage. Very good player, will benefit from Januarie leaving.
10 Grant. Started excellent last year, very good kicking but his running game is lacking at times.
11 van den Heever. Bags of pace, will complement Aplon's style. Habana's form has hardly improved so I wouldn't pick him.
12 de Villiers. His form was up and down but I still think he has a few seasons left in him.
13 de Jongh. Needs to pass more, but a dangerous runner when he has a little bit of space.
14 Aplon. Suspect in defence, better off on the wing than fullback. Elusive runner, must start.
15 Pietersen. Percy Montgomery's evil twin has returned! Not seen too much of him, but a solid player who is more reliable than Aplon at 15.

20 Groom/Schreuder?
21 Catrakilis
22 Habana

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

My prefered matchday 22:

1 Steven Kitshoff
2 Tiaan Liebenberg
3 Deon Carstens
4 Eben Etzebeth (him and Bekker is a HUGE 2nd row partnership... with ball skills, though me might end up suffering in the tight exchanges though
5 Andries Bekker
6 Schalk Burger
7 Rynhardt Elstadt
8 Duane Vermeuelen
9 Dewaldt Duvenhage
10 Dimitri Katrakilis (thought he did well in the CC before injury. Certainly hungrier than Grant, who's commitment I doubt because of the bumper seasons in Japan, and with a more experienced team surrounding him; WP basically played their u20 team in the CC last year with Bok duty and injury)
11 Tshotsho Mbovane (give this kid a break IMO, well maybe start Habana but give him a game or two)
12 Jean de Villiers
13 Juan de Jongh
14 Gio Aplon
15 Pietersen

16 Wicus Blaauw
17 Deon Fourie (though I wish Callie Visagie hadn't gone to the Bulls)
18 Quinn Roux
19 Nick Koster
20 Louis Schreuder
21 Peter Grant
22 Gerhard van den Heever

 

[Darwin]

My prefered matchday 22:

1 Steven Kitshoff
2 Tiaan Liebenberg
3 Deon Carstens
4 Eben Etzebeth (him and Bekker is a HUGE 2nd row partnership... with ball skills, though me might end up suffering in the tight exchanges though
5 Andries Bekker
6 Schalk Burger
7 Rynhardt Elstadt
8 Duane Vermeuelen
9 Dewaldt Duvenhage
10 Dimitri Katrakilis (thought he did well in the CC before injury. Certainly hungrier than Grant, who's commitment I doubt because of the bumper seasons in Japan, and with a more experienced team surrounding him; WP basically played their u20 team in the CC last year with Bok duty and injury)
11 Tshotsho Mbovane (give this kid a break IMO, well maybe start Habana but give him a game or two)
12 Jean de Villiers
13 Juan de Jongh
14 Gio Aplon
15 Pietersen

16 Wicus Blaauw
17 Deon Fourie (though I wish Callie Visagie hadn't gone to the Bulls)
18 Quinn Roux
19 Nick Koster
20 Louis Schreuder
21 Peter Grant
22 Gerhard van den Heever

A few interesting names there that I'm not overly familiar with. I terms of front row options I notice you haven't mentioned Brok Harris - is he injured (or left), or are you just not a big fan of his? I've always been quite impressed by Harris, and would have thought he would be starting again for the Stormers this season. I've heard some good things about Steven Kitshoff (he's the red head right?), but I wonder whether its a bit early for him to be starting at this level. He only turns 20 next month, and I'd be a bit worried that he may he exposed by more experienced props. I do like the loose-forward trio you have suggested (with Elstadt on the flank), but I'd be a bit worried about how they would go should Burger get injured, as there really isn't any openside cover (have Vermeuelen or Koster ever played there?). Is there any chance the the likes of Nizaam Carr and Siya Kolisi will get much gametime for the Stormers this season? Both really impressed me at under 20 level.

I haven't seen anything of Katrakilis, so will be interesting to see how he goes. Mbovane looked quite sharp for the U20's but again I think it may be a bit early for him at this level - perhaps I'm just far more conservative than you! I'd really like to see van den Heever get some consistent starts, as he always seems a quality player to me (though I suspect Habana will start on one wing).

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

A few interesting names there that I'm not overly familiar with. I terms of front row options I notice you haven't mentioned Brok Harris - is he injured (or left), or are you just not a big fan of his? I've always been quite impressed by Harris, and would have thought he would be starting again for the Stormers this season. I've heard some good things about Steven Kitshoff (he's the red head right?), but I wonder whether its a bit early for him to be starting at this level. He only turns 20 next month, and I'd be a bit worried that he may he exposed by more experienced props. I do like the loose-forward trio you have suggested (with Elstadt on the flank), but I'd be a bit worried about how they would go should Burger get injured, as there really isn't any openside cover (have Vermeuelen or Koster ever played there?). Is there any chance the the likes of Nizaam Carr and Siya Kolisi will get much gametime for the Stormers this season? Both really impressed me at under 20 level.

I haven't seen anything of Katrakilis, so will be interesting to see how he goes. Mbovane looked quite sharp for the U20's but again I think it may be a bit early for him at this level - perhaps I'm just far more conservative than you! I'd really like to see van den Heever get some consistent starts, as he always seems a quality player to me (though I suspect Habana will start on one wing).

LOL, I guess I'd like to see the young guys get their chances ahead of other more experienced guys because I've practically written us off allready. We'll probably just make the play-offs but I can't see us pushing for a ***le and would rather have us invest in the experience of our younger guys and keep them than pay Habana a bizillion and lose promising youngsters.

Yeah, Kitshoff is the red-head. I jsut don't like Harris, nothing I can substantiate; just one of those things and the reason why I'm not in charge of selection (though at times I feel I could do a better job LOL).

We have no cover at openside. I'd suspect we might see Nizaam Carr or Nick Fenton-Wells move into that role.

As for Katrakilis, he is a little guuy but tackles like a demon (at least before he got injured). Has a great boot and got the backline going better than I've seen in ages for us. Good option taking for a young flyhalf. He did drop off the pace a bit at the end of the Currie Cup. Hopefully he can move up with the rest (Lambie, Goosen, Jantjies) but that'll only happen with exposure.

 

[Gena_ZA]

I thought it might be good to start getting the speculation going.

We've had 2 good seasons in 2010 and 2011 though we've fallen short on silverware. With the squad settled we should continue our good run but there are a couple of things that might cost us top place.. again.

- still a comparatively light tight 5 and we'll probably only get caught out in the big games when it matters
- losing Francois Louw disrupts our biggest strength in our well balanced backrow and we have no back-up fetcher
- still no world class halves means a lack of direction in attack; Duvenhage is pretty good but we have no depth at 9 while we have a raft of almost-good 10's
- lost a ton of firepower in the centers. here's hoping JdV finds form again and him and JdJ stay fit and firing
- losing a lot of talented plaers and getting only a handful in and those not really on top of the world.
- we win a lot of games each year but lose out on bonus points. nothing has happened to indicate anything will change. Pietersen at 15 is a step in the right direction though
- both Rassie and AC are among the favourite for Bok coach. Getting such short notice before the season starts would certainly affect us if either gets called up


My prediction is we end up somewhere around 5th and fall out of the race in the play-offs travelling.

Tight five: Blaauw and Harris has been stable,maybe ordinary but got us to finals before , Deon Carstens is a good sighing and young red-headed Kitshoff will come though this year. There are a few very promising youngster being bred in this space as well.
Loosises - Stormers always provide a good combination here and it will again be the case, I do not have to much worries
Halves - Katrakillis and Grant, what issues?? and Duvenhage does what a 9 should do in my opinion, and does it well - no Big Mac January in the way anymore
Centre losses - If the Stormers Management knew Jacque Fourie would stay in Japan they would not have left Sadie go, but it is done and nothing can be done about it. Just losing faith in Jacque as he puled a similar one against the Lions when coming to the Stormers. Jean de Jongh in my opinion should play 12 and Jean de Villiers 13.
Back three - With Pietersen and Aplon there and potentially van den Heever or Poolman (no Savanha Dry please), any stray kicks will get punished.
Don't worry about coaching staff - The Bok coach will be Gert Smal.

Stormers to top the SA conference again, play offs - too far ahead to guess at this stage

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Tight five: Blaauw and Harris has been stable,maybe ordinary but got us to finals before , Deon Carstens is a good sighing and young red-headed Kitshoff will come though this year. There are a few very promising youngster being bred in this space as well.
Loosises - Stormers always provide a good combination here and it will again be the case, I do not have to much worries
Halves - Katrakillis and Grant, what issues?? and Duvenhage does what a 9 should do in my opinion, and does it well - no Big Mac January in the way anymore
Centre losses - If the Stormers Management knew Jacque Fourie would stay in Japan they would not have left Sadie go, but it is done and nothing can be done about it. Just losing faith in Jacque as he puled a similar one against the Lions when coming to the Stormers. Jean de Jongh in my opinion should play 12 and Jean de Villiers 13.
Back three - With Pietersen and Aplon there and potentially van den Heever or Poolman (no Savanha Dry please), any stray kicks will get punished.
Don't worry about coaching staff - The Bok coach will be Gert Smal.

Stormers to top the SA conference again, play offs - too far ahead to guess at this stage

I heard the gossip is that Smal will be coach. That's make me very happy as I think he's the best man for the job (apart from a foreigner) and it'd leave the Stormers coaching team in tact.

Some of my concerns remain and I don't agree with with you in some regards:
Yes, Blaauw, Harris and grant are alright but their limits get found out in the big games. We also have no-one past Dvenhage at 9. This concerns me more than depth at center as there are option there.
Also, while we have good options and plentiful options at loose forwards, we don't have a back-up out-and-out fetcher and that lack of balance in the backrow might hurt us if our tight five don't take more responsibility in regard to manning up at the breakdown.

 

[Gena_ZA]

valid points, but me has faith

 

[psychic duck]

remember the Stormers re signed WP academy product JP du Plessis from Melbourne Rebels



unfortunately for him the Stormers backline is not short on good players, I thought Estadt was a possible future Springbok at lock, so why move him to 7 where Kolisi can play

 

[Gena_ZA]

farkit, don't know this lad, he has a better step than both Juan's. Maybe Sadie's loss can be made up by him. Good to have backup in midfield.
Elstadt is a lock and should stay there

 

[Draggs]

I said a few months back that the Sharks should pursue du Plessis. Not that he is fantastic, but a better player than Joubert and Terblanche.
Not sure about WP's props. Every time I have seen that ginger play he gets a right tuning.
Liebenberg over Fourie, every time. Liebenberg is a tough player, Fourie seems to lack some of the strength needed for a hooker; Reminds me of Schalk Brits.

 

[Darwin]

LOL, I guess I'd like to see the young guys get their chances ahead of other more experienced guys because I've practically written us off allready. We'll probably just make the play-offs but I can't see us pushing for a ***le and would rather have us invest in the experience of our younger guys and keep them than pay Habana a bizillion and lose promising youngsters.

Yeah, Kitshoff is the red-head. I jsut don't like Harris, nothing I can substantiate; just one of those things and the reason why I'm not in charge of selection (though at times I feel I could do a better job LOL).

We have no cover at openside. I'd suspect we might see Nizaam Carr or Nick Fenton-Wells move into that role.

As for Katrakilis, he is a little guuy but tackles like a demon (at least before he got injured). Has a great boot and got the backline going better than I've seen in ages for us. Good option taking for a young flyhalf. He did drop off the pace a bit at the end of the Currie Cup. Hopefully he can move up with the rest (Lambie, Goosen, Jantjies) but that'll only happen with exposure.

I think it is a bit early to write off the Stormers chances of taking out the ***le just yet. I can see that they do have a few issues - but the Reds won it last season without having a 'complete' team. The Stormers certainly have the talent to make it into the playoffs, and once you get into the playoffs you never know what will happen. All you need is a bit of luck (and having home games certainly helps too). I think it is certainly important to introduce the young guys and gives them a taste of Super Rugby (and continue to play them if they excel) I just think it would be a mistake to write off the season and simply use it as a development tool for follow seasons when the team actually has a realistic chance of competing for the ***le (I do, however, advocate this tactic for teams such as the Hurricanes).

remember the Stormers re signed WP academy product JP du Plessis from Melbourne Rebels

du Plessis certainly looks great in that video. He may find it a bit harder playing against men (rather than boys) who will (a) be as big/strong (if bigger/stronger than him), hence he won't be able to run through them and (b) work out that everytime he gets the ball he cuts back in. Not saying he's not a great prospect, I just wonder whether he is ready for Super Rugby yet (especially considering he was only given a grand total of 4 mins for the Rebels last season)...

I thought Estadt was a possible future Springbok at lock, so why move him to 7 where Kolisi can play

I was discussing this with stormer2010 in another thread: I thought Elstadt played like a loose-forward, then was informed that he's actually played a lot of his rugby at 7. More than half of his Currie Cup/ Vodacom Cup matches have been at 7, and he played there at under 20 level. They really need to decide where his future lies - I can see he has a lot of potential at either lock or 7. He's got the size for a lock, but just needs to tighten up his game a lot and really concentrate on doing the basics if he's going to be a top class lock. I personally see a huge amount of potential in him as a 7, but he really needs to be playing there every week if they decide that is where his future lies.

 

[Gena_ZA]

[h=1]Stormers battle in Boland heat[/h]21 Jan 2012
The Stormers beat the Kavaliers comfortably but struggled for synergy in their first hit-out of the season.
This match was always going to be more a glorified training exercise than anything else. The young and largely inexperienced Stormers side racked up seven tries in the 45-14 win in Wellington, but they battled for consistency in certain areas of the game.
Coach Allister Coetzee opted to start a team devoid of any current Springboks and very few established Super Rugby players, as he felt this match would give the players an opportunity to stake their claim as well as the coaches a chance to gauge the fringe players' aptitude.
There were players that shone, like centre JP du Plessis who made some exciting breaks in midfield. However, these cameos needed to be viewed in context as for large parts of the game, the Boland defence was poor.
New Stormers recruits Gerhard van den Heever and Burton Francis did not have an especially memorable outing. Van den Heever battled to get involved from the fullback position while Francis looked very rusty at flyhalf.
Kurt Coleman, who made his Super Rugby debut last year, enjoyed more attacking success when he replaced Francis in the second half once the game had opened up. Unfortunately, Coleman's goal-kicking was worryingly poor. It mattered little in the context of this match, but his poor striking of the ball requires remedying if he's to be considered a realistic option for the Stormers.
Nizaam Carr shone when he was allowed the space to run, but generally the Stormers pack did not look particularly imposing at the breakdown. Their scrum also wobbled in the second half and it was veteran tighthead Brok Harris who was repeatedly penalised by the referee.
Coetzee is likely to play more of his best players in the next two warm-ups against the Lions and Cheetahs. These fixtures will witness more of a contest and be more indicative of the Cape franchise's form, as both the Lions and Cheetahs boast players capable of competing at Super Rugby level.

 

[Gena_ZA]

[h=1]Van Aswegen in Stormers hot seat[/h]24 Jan 2012
Gary van Aswegen will start at flyhalf against the Lions this Friday and appears to be the favourite for the position in the coming Super Rugby competition.
Stormers coach Allister Coetzee has picked his strongest possible side for the pre-season clash at Newlands. Schalk Burger is back to skipper the side after sitting out of last week's hit-out in Wellington, while a whole host of established players return to the line-up for the first serious warm-up for the Cape franchise.
Coetzee has excluded several frontline players due to injury. Lock Andries Bekker and No 8 Duane Vermeulen are only expected to be fit for the fourth pre-season clash with the Kings while lock Rynhardt Elstadt could play against the Cheetahs next week. Dewaldt Duvenage will start training with the squad next week and Wicus Blaauw is also expected to be back in the mix.
Otherwise Coetzee maintains that the side selected is one of his strongest. Van Aswegen has been entrusted with the flyhalf duties and the Stormers coach has hinted that the Ole Gunnar Solskjaer look alike could play himself into the starting side for that opening Super Rugby game against the Hurricanes on 25 February.
Since Peter Grant is currently in Japan and won't be back until the Kobe Steelers are knocked out of that local club tournament, Van Aswegen has a chance to make the No 10 shirt his own.
'Gary suffered from a serious injury in last year's Currie Cup and we want him to play as much as possible alongside Jean de Villiers and Juan de Jongh [in these pre-season games],' said Coetzee. 'We've got to build some momentum and ensure that these combinations gel.
'I'm not sure exactly when Peter will be back or whether he will come back in one piece, so we have to push on with our plans. Gary has looked very sharp and he has a big opportunity now.'
Coetzee added that matches against the Lions and Cheetahs would serve as good preparation ahead of the competition proper and that he and his assistant coaches would be focusing on quality of performance rather than the scoreline.
Stormers – 15 Joe Pietersen, 14 Gio Aplon, 13 Juan de Jongh, 12 Jean de Villiers, 11 Bryan Habana, 10 Gary van Aswegen, 9 Louis Schrueder, 8 Nick Koster, 7 Siya Kolisi, 6 Schalk Burger (c), 5 De Kock Steennkamp, 4 Eben Etzebeth, 3 Brok Harris, 2 Deon Fourie, 1 Steve Kitshoff.
Subs: 16 Tiaan Liebenberg, 17 Deon Carstens, 18 Frans Malherbe, 19 Don Armandt, 20 Reuben Johannes, 21 Nizaam Carr, 22 Nic Groom, 23 Burton Francis, 24 Marcel Brache, 25 Gerhard van den Heever, 26 Danie Poolman.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Very glad Pietersen is back; his linking play from the back was sorely missed last year. Also very glad Van Aswegen and Etzebeth get their chance to impress against tougher opposition. Other than that we look good enough for a 6th place finish if Bekker, Duvenhage and Vermeulen can get back quick and we don't ave too many injuries. Here's hoping Liebenberg can get back to his 2010 form as well.

 

[Gena_ZA]

Very glad Pietersen is back; his linking play from the back was sorely missed last year. Also very glad Van Aswegen and Etzebeth get their chance to impress against tougher opposition. Other than that we look good enough for a 6th place finish if Bekker, Duvenhage and Vermeulen can get back quick and we don't ave too many injuries. Here's hoping Liebenberg can get back to his 2010 form as well.

You up for a side bet then?
I say we make the semi's and you say we make 6th and not reach the semi's
Do I have it correct, you can put in the wager, I'm cool

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

You up for a side bet then?
I say we make the semi's and you say we make 6th and not reach the semi's
Do I have it correct, you can put in the wager, I'm cool

I hate betting against my team but that is pretty much my feeling at this stage; 6th on the log but out in the 'QF'.

I'm not going to bet against us though. My *****ing is more like a change in tactics; Year in, year out I've been excited about our prospect for God only knows how long and keep getting dissapointed... this year we are going to take some silerware even if we have to break in somewhere and steal it.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Anybody catch the warm-up game against the Lions?

28-6 is a pretty good result early on considering we didn't have a whole lot of 1st choice players (Blaauw, Liebenberg, Elstadt, Bekker, Vermeulen, Duvenhage and Grant). That said he Lions also missed a few although I'd argue our guys are more influential.

Is this just a warm-up and counts towards nada? Are the Lions in trouble or just rusty? Are we in pretty good shape this early and our young guys can stand up to the challenge?

 

[Gena_ZA]

Reporters said that this came was a heck of a lot better than the same one last year that was 80 minutes of zero cohetion and a stop start affair.
Paulse scored a solo effort from 50 meters out and rounded off another good break from van den Heever.
etersen was cool and calm at the back at deadly aiming for the poles (nothing changed here)
Etsebeth apparantly was the stand out player, guess he might be the find of the season and Skolisi apparantly very good as well
Buth nearly took a guys head off (same old) and at the end the Stormers played with 12 or 13 men - few yellow cards at the end and the Lions still could not get through.

Stormers took 5 lineout balls from the Lions that never got to second gear and when they did the Stormers defence was deadly.
But again the tight 5 played secons fiddle

But this should only be seen as a warmup match, that said the Stormers are pretty "warm"early season

here the round-up rom Supersport
http://www.supersport.com/rugby/super-rugby/news/120127/Stormers_down_the_Lions