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The "South African Quota" catch-all thread
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<blockquote data-quote="Ospervat" data-source="post: 817824" data-attributes="member: 72942"><p>Ok.</p><p></p><p>So really you've only ever known the game under the professional code not when it was purely amateur and in some respects it is like comparing apples to oranges - the game has changed so much in the last 20 years not only in the way it is played ito the rules but also the size of players in the different positions, the skill sets they need and the strategies used.</p><p></p><p>Technology has also had a major impact on the game and like most pro sports today the sports science behind it all is quite mind boggling.</p><p></p><p>Until the pro code it really was all about the grunt. Most of the best players then just had a sixth sense about the game and that is what made them the best then there was the occasional genius who just oozed natural talent in every aspect (Danie Gerber is s good example).</p><p></p><p>But basically you went to work Monday to Friday 9-5, practice 2-3 nights a week for a couple of hours - get together on Saturday for a match and how you get there is your business and expense.</p><p>How different is that compared to today!</p><p></p><p>South Africa was excluded from all international sport from the late 60's up to the early 90's due to international pressure to boycott them because of their apartheid policies.</p><p></p><p>There was the odd tour - </p><p>1974 British Lions</p><p>1976 NZ</p><p>1980 British Lions</p><p>1981 SA tour to NZ</p><p>1984 England </p><p>1986 NZ Cavaliers (not official side)</p><p>SA did not participate in the 1987 and 1991 world cups.</p><p></p><p>From 1985 - 1991 they did not play a single recognised test.</p><p></p><p>So Currie cup was the premier domestic competition. This period saw some very talented players but they never got the recognition.</p><p></p><p>Fan culture has pretty much remained consistent however - </p><p></p><p>Southern Hemisphere:-</p><p>For NZ and SA Rugby union is the premier winter sport and so by implication this is the most traditional rivalry - rugby flows in their blood</p><p></p><p>Oz - not so much - they have a large supporter base for rugby league and Aussie rules as competing winter sports however they have always managed to put up a good team capable of beating any side on the day. Oz Union fans however are just as passionate and in typical Oz fashion bring a "in your face" style to the party. You gotta love it.</p><p></p><p>Argentina are the new SH top side and have only more recently turned Pro and it shows. </p><p></p><p>Northern hemisphere</p><p>England are probably the most successful NH side - and as the home of the IRB - matches against England by any SH side is always seen as traditional rivalry. However Football (soccer) is still the biggest winter sport in England and Scotland by a wide margin.</p><p></p><p>Rugby union is mostly played in the south of England while rugby league is the game of choice in the north.</p><p></p><p>Wales are probably the closest to SA & NZ ito fan passion - rugby is unquestionably in their blood.</p><p></p><p>There is rich history between SA & all the British sides going back 125 years particularly if you consider the first test played in 1891 and in between this and the 1903 tests there was the Anglo-Boer war between these two nations - you can understand the intensity of the rivalry which is still felt quite strongly by many of the staunchest Afrikaner (Boere) community.</p><p></p><p>As a point of reference to how good should the springboks be I would say you need to look at it from a perspective of tradition. </p><p></p><p>The White Saffa is a proud individual when it comes to the springboks. This is after all his national sport.</p><p></p><p>Point in case - SA did not lose a series home or away from 1903 - 1956 and yes it was under the amateur code, but it is still impressive and a hard act to follow. I don't think anybody is expecting that kind of record in the modern era but it is a indicator of the mentality of the SA rugby supporter and the expectations from their national side.</p><p></p><p>For SA to come back from apartheid isolation and win the 1995 World Cup is again another indicator of the Bok supporter and his expectations.</p><p></p><p>The die hard Bok supporter has watched every game his side has played in the last 20 years and his point of reference is that experience in and of itself and his opinion is based on that observable experience - it simply isn't a quantifiable statistic. It comes down to quality of leadership from the CEO of the SAR down to leadership on the field. It is about imaginative play, changing strategy, using initiative, instinctively reading the game in front of you and moments of individual brilliance. These are intangible qualities that cannot be quantified in any records.</p><p></p><p>As far as quotas, targets are concerned - call it what you like it is ultimately affirmative action- </p><p>For me - Here's the issue:- Schools rugby </p><p></p><p>Rugby is not the exclusive privilege of private schools - it is played across state schools however the quality of rugby played by these state schools has dropped dramatically over the last 20 years.</p><p></p><p>It is the private schools in the new South Africa that have tried to preserve the quality of rugby at school level otherwise this too would have perished but this is a very small pool and accessible to only a few of the most wealthy both black and white.</p><p></p><p>There is a right way (education and funding) and a wrong way (enforced bias) to implement affirmative action and social mobility across all spectrums of life. The political power in SA has elected to place racially based selection policies on the national side and its administration but in typical fashion had no plan to provide the funding for education at grass roots level in state schools to ensure continuity of talent in future generations.</p><p></p><p>It's taken exactly one generation to seriously erode the talent base in SA rugby and it is finally paying the price at national level.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ospervat, post: 817824, member: 72942"] Ok. So really you've only ever known the game under the professional code not when it was purely amateur and in some respects it is like comparing apples to oranges - the game has changed so much in the last 20 years not only in the way it is played ito the rules but also the size of players in the different positions, the skill sets they need and the strategies used. Technology has also had a major impact on the game and like most pro sports today the sports science behind it all is quite mind boggling. Until the pro code it really was all about the grunt. Most of the best players then just had a sixth sense about the game and that is what made them the best then there was the occasional genius who just oozed natural talent in every aspect (Danie Gerber is s good example). But basically you went to work Monday to Friday 9-5, practice 2-3 nights a week for a couple of hours - get together on Saturday for a match and how you get there is your business and expense. How different is that compared to today! South Africa was excluded from all international sport from the late 60's up to the early 90's due to international pressure to boycott them because of their apartheid policies. There was the odd tour - 1974 British Lions 1976 NZ 1980 British Lions 1981 SA tour to NZ 1984 England 1986 NZ Cavaliers (not official side) SA did not participate in the 1987 and 1991 world cups. From 1985 - 1991 they did not play a single recognised test. So Currie cup was the premier domestic competition. This period saw some very talented players but they never got the recognition. Fan culture has pretty much remained consistent however - Southern Hemisphere:- For NZ and SA Rugby union is the premier winter sport and so by implication this is the most traditional rivalry - rugby flows in their blood Oz - not so much - they have a large supporter base for rugby league and Aussie rules as competing winter sports however they have always managed to put up a good team capable of beating any side on the day. Oz Union fans however are just as passionate and in typical Oz fashion bring a "in your face" style to the party. You gotta love it. Argentina are the new SH top side and have only more recently turned Pro and it shows. Northern hemisphere England are probably the most successful NH side - and as the home of the IRB - matches against England by any SH side is always seen as traditional rivalry. However Football (soccer) is still the biggest winter sport in England and Scotland by a wide margin. Rugby union is mostly played in the south of England while rugby league is the game of choice in the north. Wales are probably the closest to SA & NZ ito fan passion - rugby is unquestionably in their blood. There is rich history between SA & all the British sides going back 125 years particularly if you consider the first test played in 1891 and in between this and the 1903 tests there was the Anglo-Boer war between these two nations - you can understand the intensity of the rivalry which is still felt quite strongly by many of the staunchest Afrikaner (Boere) community. As a point of reference to how good should the springboks be I would say you need to look at it from a perspective of tradition. The White Saffa is a proud individual when it comes to the springboks. This is after all his national sport. Point in case - SA did not lose a series home or away from 1903 - 1956 and yes it was under the amateur code, but it is still impressive and a hard act to follow. I don't think anybody is expecting that kind of record in the modern era but it is a indicator of the mentality of the SA rugby supporter and the expectations from their national side. For SA to come back from apartheid isolation and win the 1995 World Cup is again another indicator of the Bok supporter and his expectations. The die hard Bok supporter has watched every game his side has played in the last 20 years and his point of reference is that experience in and of itself and his opinion is based on that observable experience - it simply isn't a quantifiable statistic. It comes down to quality of leadership from the CEO of the SAR down to leadership on the field. It is about imaginative play, changing strategy, using initiative, instinctively reading the game in front of you and moments of individual brilliance. These are intangible qualities that cannot be quantified in any records. As far as quotas, targets are concerned - call it what you like it is ultimately affirmative action- For me - Here's the issue:- Schools rugby Rugby is not the exclusive privilege of private schools - it is played across state schools however the quality of rugby played by these state schools has dropped dramatically over the last 20 years. It is the private schools in the new South Africa that have tried to preserve the quality of rugby at school level otherwise this too would have perished but this is a very small pool and accessible to only a few of the most wealthy both black and white. There is a right way (education and funding) and a wrong way (enforced bias) to implement affirmative action and social mobility across all spectrums of life. The political power in SA has elected to place racially based selection policies on the national side and its administration but in typical fashion had no plan to provide the funding for education at grass roots level in state schools to ensure continuity of talent in future generations. It's taken exactly one generation to seriously erode the talent base in SA rugby and it is finally paying the price at national level. [/QUOTE]
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