• Help Support The Rugby Forum :

The All Blacks Squad - The Rugby Championship 2014

Bada-Bing!

Hall of Fame
TRF Legend
Joined
Oct 17, 2013
Messages
15,077
Country Flag
Hong Kong
Club or Nation
British Irish Lions
All Blacks squad for Rugby Championship:

Forwards: Dane Coles, Keven Mealamu; Wyatt Crockett, Charlie Faumuina, Ben Franks, Owen Franks, Tony Woodcock/Joe Moody; Dominic Bird, Brodie Retallick, Patrick Tuipulotu, Sam Whitelock; Richie McCaw (capt), Sam Cane, Jerome Kaino, Steven Luatua, Liam Messam, Kieran Read.

Backs: Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Aaron Smith, TJ Perenara; Beauden Barrett, Dan Carter, Aaron Cruden; Malakai Fekitoa, Ma'a Nonu, Conrad Smith; Israel Dagg, Cory Jane, Charles Piutau, Julia Savea, Ben Smith.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/...ll-Blacks-squad-for-Rugby-Championship-named/
 
Wouldn't mind seeing a Carter/Fekitoa midfield at some point...

Probably more interesting than the squad (which was fairly predictable) is the list of players training with the squad whilst the Crusaders players are not available:

Nathan Harris, Motu Matu'u, Paulisi Manu, Kane Hames, Jeremy Thrush, Shane Christie, Liam Squire
 
Last edited:
What about Woodcock's shoulder injury and him missing the start of the RC? He was damn good v England in the 3rd test. Is Crockett a good enough replacement come scrum time or still a penalty magnet?
 
Wouldn't mind seeing a Carter/Fekitoa midfield at some point...

Probably more interesting than the squad (which was fairly predictable) is the list of players training with the squad whilst the Crusaders players are not available:

Nathan Harris, Motu Matu'u, Paulisi Manu, Kane Hames, Jeremy Thrush, Shane Christie, Liam Squire

Id pick Carter @ 10, Fekitoa 12 and Ben Smith 13. Dagg @ da back.

I put Ben in the middle cos Fekitoa is also a good putting people in and while Conrad Smith is a great support player, its Ben Smith thats got the higher percentage of turning any oppertunity into a try.
 
Ben Smith has been proven to be pretty average at centre...

He looked great at fullback. I'd keep Conrad Smith at centre as he is still clearly the best centre in the world. Fekitoa in my opinion didn't show he could make good enough decisions on a regular basis, or have a decent passing game for me to consider him starting at this stage. I'd rather see him get some time from the bench at centre or the wing. Dagg still wouldn't be near my fullback list despite a reasonable game on the weekend, Ben Smith has clearly done more in the last two years to have earned that starting spot, including being probably the player of the series against England. I love Carter - but he hasn't been playing 10 for the Crusaders and has been out of action for the All Blacks for a while, so I'd probably give Cruden a shot at the first few starts.

In terms of Woodcock - I don't know how long he will be out but Crockett should do fine at scrummaging over the series (In fact he looked very good last weekend). Ben Franks may also be given a shot, and Joe Moody is a good scrummager too. I'd worry more what would happen if Owen Franks is injured as I don't rate Ben Franks at TH (thought Hansen seems to), while Faumuina I think has been very poor in the scrums.

The training squad must be something to do with where they are training. Kane Hames is a terrible, terrible, terrible scrummager. Probably the worst in super rugby. I wouldn't think Shane Christie would be near the team either, not that he is bad but it's very left field. Luke Braid must have slept with Hansen's wife.

Also great to see Julia Savea in there, not sure who she plays for but it speaks volumes for the All Blacks progressive thinking.
 
for me Ben Smith at 15 is a no-brainer, can't understand anyone wanting Dagg over him there. I haven't seen Conrad Smith play in a long time, but I'd still probably have him along with Nonu at midfield, Fekitoa is fantastic but still very young and could start some of the "easier" games or add punch off the bench. Definitely a major prospect for the RWC. Cruden to start at 10, I've seen Carter play 12 only lately and he's fine but absolutely nothing compared to the Carter of old and NZ needs to play Cruden and Barrett as much as possible to solidify their confidence and comfort as All-Black flyhalves in view of the next RWC, that's the aim and Carter isn't getting any younger.
Aaron Smith was brilliant and consistent against England, I think he's possibly the best 9 around atm.

Indeed Woodcock looked brilliant in his last series against Eng, esp. that one test where he was all over the place, offering a lot across the field, not just scrummaging. Too bad he'll be absent.
Richie McCaw is still very good, what a player. Liked him a lot in the last SR semi-final, still very active. Messam had shown he may not have the world class power for a backrower against England, and I haven't seen much of Luatua but again, a fine young player, and with good size. NZ's third row should prob. be Kaino-Mccaw-Read though.
Read is on form, and he'll be his standard delight to watch, one of my favorite non-french players for a while. A back in a forward's body, but also an adept forward.

For the wings, I've got Savea by default, and the other Piuatu. Another very young and already stellar commodity for NZ, I particularly had the chance to see his ability against France last time they came to Paris. He had that offload to Read for the score; made the try. Haven't seen tons of him, but he's more athletic and dynamic than Cory Jane from what I've seen, and I think his max is more potent than Jane's max. I understand Jane is a more experienced back three, good under the high ball, a sure source, that sort of thing...but Piutau is like a Fekitoa-on-the-wing.
Dane Coles to start, no ? How old is Mealamu !!?

And nice to see Whitelock and Retallick at locks if you're supporting NZ. Retallick is in my current World XV, and Whitelock, one fine Rugby product, not just brute force in that second row.
 
Gotta run Smith at 13, he's still the best in the world despite collecting his pension from this Friday coming.

Fekitoa will get a run from the bench, as he can cover wing as well.

I'd love to see Barrett given a crack, but think he will miss out. Which is a shame as i think he's the future for New Zealand.
 
guess who's back, back again, Dan is Back, Tell a Friend ;) glad to see him back still might be able to meat him at murrayfield :D
 
Ben Smith has been proven to be pretty average at centre...

He looked great at fullback. I'd keep Conrad Smith at centre as he is still clearly the best centre in the world. Fekitoa in my opinion didn't show he could make good enough decisions on a regular basis, or have a decent passing game for me to consider him starting at this stage. I'd rather see him get some time from the bench at centre or the wing. Dagg still wouldn't be near my fullback list despite a reasonable game on the weekend, Ben Smith has clearly done more in the last two years to have earned that starting spot, including being probably the player of the series against England. I love Carter - but he hasn't been playing 10 for the Crusaders and has been out of action for the All Blacks for a while, so I'd probably give Cruden a shot at the first few starts.

In terms of Woodcock - I don't know how long he will be out but Crockett should do fine at scrummaging over the series (In fact he looked very good last weekend). Ben Franks may also be given a shot, and Joe Moody is a good scrummager too. I'd worry more what would happen if Owen Franks is injured as I don't rate Ben Franks at TH (thought Hansen seems to), while Faumuina I think has been very poor in the scrums.

The training squad must be something to do with where they are training. Kane Hames is a terrible, terrible, terrible scrummager. Probably the worst in super rugby. I wouldn't think Shane Christie would be near the team either, not that he is bad but it's very left field. Luke Braid must have slept with Hansen's wife.

Also great to see Julia Savea in there, not sure who she plays for but it speaks volumes for the All Blacks progressive thinking.

I thought they were training in Auckland? Regardless, Braid is injured so wouldn't be eligible for selection.
 
Incredibly predictable squad. The likes of Matt Todd and Ryan Crotty will be disappointed as they have both had very strong Super Rugby seasons and have performed for the AB's when given a chance, but there is only so many spots available in the squad.

As Mr Fish mentions the players called in to train with the AB's is probably the more interesting thing. I think people should be careful not to read too much into these selections though. These are not necessarily the 'next in line' but rather a selection of players that the AB's selectors would like to have a further look at. A few of them may well earn an AB's call-up in future, but most of them will probably never be AB's IMO.


Ben Smith has been proven to be pretty average at centre...

He looked great at fullback. I'd keep Conrad Smith at centre as he is still clearly the best centre in the world. Fekitoa in my opinion didn't show he could make good enough decisions on a regular basis, or have a decent passing game for me to consider him starting at this stage. I'd rather see him get some time from the bench at centre or the wing. Dagg still wouldn't be near my fullback list despite a reasonable game on the weekend, Ben Smith has clearly done more in the last two years to have earned that starting spot, including being probably the player of the series against England. I love Carter - but he hasn't been playing 10 for the Crusaders and has been out of action for the All Blacks for a while, so I'd probably give Cruden a shot at the first few starts.

In terms of Woodcock - I don't know how long he will be out but Crockett should do fine at scrummaging over the series (In fact he looked very good last weekend). Ben Franks may also be given a shot, and Joe Moody is a good scrummager too. I'd worry more what would happen if Owen Franks is injured as I don't rate Ben Franks at TH (thought Hansen seems to), while Faumuina I think has been very poor in the scrums.

The training squad must be something to do with where they are training. Kane Hames is a terrible, terrible, terrible scrummager. Probably the worst in super rugby. I wouldn't think Shane Christie would be near the team either, not that he is bad but it's very left field. Luke Braid must have slept with Hansen's wife.

Also great to see Julia Savea in there, not sure who she plays for but it speaks volumes for the All Blacks progressive thinking.

I agree with most of that. I think Ben Smith was slightly above average at centre - he started to show some good signs towards in the last few games of end of year tour (he was arguable man of the match in the final game vs Ireland), but I agree he is far more valuable at fullback (and both C Smith and Fekitoa are better 13's). He is by some margin the best fullback in NZ (and has been for the last 3+ years), so it would be good if he was actually played there for a change....

Like you I would start Cruden at 10 for at least first two matches. Carter hasn't played that much rugby over the last few years, and even when fit hasn't exactly been the Carter of old. I'm certainly not writing him off, I'm just not convinced he is our best 10 at this moment in time. If Carter does start it will be interesting to see who they pick as cover from the bench. Though I rate Cruden higher than Barrett as a starter I think Barrett offers more off the bench with his pace and versatility.

I agree that Crockett should do a reasonable job while Woodcock is out. I'm still a bit nervous whenever Crockett is on the field but the new scrum engagement laws have meant he is not longer the penalty magnet he once was at scrum time. He still gets penalised a bit, but not 2-3 times as match as he seemed to under the old laws. I actually quite like Ben Franks at LH (though, like you, not so much at TH). He is a solid scrummager, has a massive work-rate, is a strong ball running option too - the only thing holding him back is his discipline in my opinion. I actually think Faumuina is a pretty solid scrummager these days - not as good as Owen Franks obviously, but I seldom see him get dominated at scrum-time.

The only thing I really disagree on is Hames scrummaging ability. The Highlanders scrum this season was been the best it has been in a number of years, and a big reason for this is Hames. Apart from the last two matches (against the Crusaders and the Sharks - the two best scrummaging sides in the competition) the Highlanders have had parity in most matches at scrum time, and dominance in several too. I remember Hames giving big Ben Tameifuna a hard time in a couple of matches, something few LH's are able to do! I don't think Hames was to blame for the poor Highlanders scrummaging these past two matches either. Almost all the pressure was on the other side of the scrum (on King, who is an average at best scrummager). When we had our strongest scrummaging front row (Hames, Coltman, and Fia) had a surprisingly good scrum, but the absense of Fia (out with seizures) and Coltman (out because he couldn't throw the ball in straight) were the major reasons we struggled so much at scrum-time in Durban.

Hames is a pretty interesting case. This time last year few people would have even heard of him. He hadn't even played ITM Cup rugby and was the 4-5th best prop in Bay of Plenty club - he only got serious game time for Bay of Plenty due to serious injuries to a couple of their top props. I certainly don't think he is near AB's selection at this stage but he made a very promising start to his Super Rugby career, and if he continues to develop he could well make the AB's one day (especially considering our dearth of quality LH's at the moment).

Like you I suspect Luke Braid must have slept with Hansen's wife, but as Mr Fish mentions he wasn't available (he's had shoulder surgery). Christie clearly isn't the next 7 in line (that's Todd), but I can see why the want to have a look at him. He has an excellent season for the Highlanders - for me he was our most best forward. He's also has the attributes that he AB's are looking for in a 7 - size, physicality strong ball running skills, a massive tackle rate. I would certainly pick either Todd or Braid (when fit) ahead of him for the AB's if either McCaw or Cane were injured, but he would be the next in line in my opinion (Savea will almost certainly be an All Blackl, but I still think he needs a bit more rugby before he is ready for the international stage).
 
ben smith was only average his first couple of games at 13 then basically ended up having the same impact on games he normally has at 15 and also fixed the defensive issues he had in his first two games.

Heck that final play against Ireland that was maybe the play of the century should be called "lets give the ball to Ben Smith and see what happens"

IMO he clearly showed he can more than adequately do the job at 13 if need be. The reality is he has the skills to play anywhere from 10-15 at the highest level if needed.

But with Conrad back, Fekitoa and Crotty both showing good signs we probably dont need him to like we did then and after the recent series the 15 Jersey should well and truly belong to him and it should be Dagg who rides the bench or plays at 14.

we have had a long run of Dagg being solid but not special. seriously it takes Dagg a whole season to play 3 really good tests and it takes Ben Smith 3 tests to play really good tests.

I feel sorry for Matt Todd.

McCaw is a great and hes the captain, but IMO Todd is the best 7 in New Zealand right now. I also think that he plays a style of rugby that is well suited to test footy and his running game has been huge. He was fantastic off the bench when he got chances for the All Blacks.

I hate seeing guys that stand up and be the best in NZ at their position not get selected.

I've been a big supporter of Cane as well but he has not been matching Todd, not even close. In fact Latimer has still been the best chiefs 7.
 
for me Ben Smith at 15 is a no-brainer, can't understand anyone wanting Dagg over him there.
Calm down mate, its my choice and thats who I'd go for. I can understand obviously Ben Smith is the form 15 for the Southren Hemisphere. I'd just be looking to mix things up thats all, a little break from the norm.

Carter hasnt been playing 10 in awhile and Cruden has dropped a bit in the standards he's set for himself in the last few years and what we've come to expect of him. So I'd look to bring D.C back up to scratch, straight in the deep end at test match level.

Stuff it, I'd just run Fekitoa at 12. See how it goes.

Ben Smith at centre brings to the table a kicking centre. Conrads probably a better defender but Ben Smith is so good right now I'd put him anywhere in the backs. So far he pretty much just completes a fancy looking backline.

Savea and Piutau on the wings. 2 good finishers, who are very difficult to put down.

I think with Dagg at the back of this kind of backline, he can only shine. He's got that long punt and he goes good when he's in black.

Thats why I'd go for that backline, a bit fancy and different from what everyone else would predictably go for. One things for sure is that its a good backline.
 
Yep, seems likely he'll be out for the year...

I guess this will give Crockett and Moody a good chance to get some more experience..


I always feel this is ABS weakest area (The props) and there isn't experienced replacements. Just dont understand what has the coaching team been doing...about one year to world cup...not much time left...

The other area, hooker...Keven Mealamu...he is not even physically fit to complete the 80 mins in Super 15 matches.....cant imagine how can he maintain during the whole world cup tournament
 
Last edited:
I always feel this is ABS weakest area (The props) and there isn't experienced replacements. Just dont understand what has the coaching team been doing...about one year to world cup...not much time left...

The other area, hooker...Keven Mealamu...he is not even physically fit to complete the 80 mins in Super 15 matches.....cant imagine how can he maintain during the whole world cup tournament

As we've established before though - it's not like Crockett hasn't had any experience at international level, despite your insistence to the contrary. He's played 28 test matches since 2009. Last year he played every match except one - and started five of the thirteen matches.
 
When there are better options the management will select them.

Under Woodcock, Franks and Crockett there's nobody really putting their hands up.
 
When there are better options the management will select them.

Under Woodcock, Franks and Crockett there's nobody really putting their hands up.

Joe Moody isn't bad in terms of scrummaging - and the selectors seem to like Kane Hames (although you'll have to ask Darwin why).

At tight-head there is big Ben Tamiefuna who I wouldn't mind at all seeing getting capped (I feel he's probably given too much flack for his size, as he still seems pretty mobile and very physical, and Ben Afeaki who in my mind is one of the most promising props but he keeps getting injured. Jeffery Toomaga-Allen is still a good bet as well. Then you have Faumuina - but I tend to think he struggles quite a bit in the scrums against international teams.

People well and truly over play New Zealand's propping woes. There are some good options out there - who even if they're not Carl Hayman in the scrums still can hold themselves well enough, and generally offer more in the loose than most other props.
 
Last edited:
I was referring to Ben Franks as a loosehead.

I don't think tighthead is a problem position at all. You've got some of the best prospects in the whole world.

Hooker though...
 

Latest posts

Top