Tactics

[Wayne Thomas]

A win is a win but worringly no tries again. Can`t understand why Rob Howley is the attack coach when Walkes were woeful in attack in the six nations (I`m a welshman and passionate wales supporter).

However what annoys me most is the use of the box kick -whats the point? The Lions ( and Wales ) will go through multiple lphases of play, or win a good opposition lineout, or win turnover ball only for the scrum half to kick possession away back to the opposition.

I was always told the three most important words when playing were -
POSSESSION< POSSESSION< POSSESSION.

If they are in a position where they have to kick, give it to the outside half who has a much better overview of the game and who can either kick long into space, or preferably kick long into touch where at least the Lions can compete and/or spoil at the lineout.

Also kick offs - it should fall into a five metre square area underneath the advancing Lions pack where again they have a chance to compete in the air for the ball = just to kick it long to southern hemisphere teams who relish to chance to run at the opposition with ball in hand is madness.

 

[big ginger 8]

While possession is important I feel territory is usually more so, especially for a side that is unlikely to score m/any length of the field tries. A box kick is the perfect kick when within 15m of the sideline. Especially if we want to get the ball back or at least put pressure on the opposition. When done right it is as contestable as a garryowen without having to be passed back 10m first. The problem is that it has to be executed well by both the kicker and the chasers. The box kick was more successful today because Murray is probably the best in the world at it and Laidlaw and Webb aren't as good.

With the kick off's often the aim of a long kick off is to pin the opposition in their 22 and kick it back to you, so you have possession around halfway or they turn it over giving you possession in a great position, they also have a lot further to go to score. Mixing up the kick off is no harm either as if you use one type all the time the opposition can better plan around it.

There's a lot of Howley's tactics I don't agree with but these types of kicks in and of themselves aren't egregious. Although I do agree they can be used too often.

 

[GMAC]

agreed possession is only useful if you are playing in the opponents 22. territory and field position is vital.

 

[Ragey Erasmus]

Wales tend to love holding onto the ball for extended periods of time and go nowhere. Sides like the ABs actually kick a lot and the vast majority of their tries are off turnover or 1-3 phase ball. Beyond that they actually don't score that regularly. Statistically, kicking when you haven't got anywhere after about 5 phases is the best course of action to break up the field of play. Even if they just kick it straight back to you, there is now no longer a set defence. This relies on kicks being contested and sides able to switch to counter attack rapidly, something NH sides are nowhere near as good as NZ at.

NH sides rely on structure, NZ rely on chaos. Contested kicks create chaos, possession creates structure.

 

[Penne Rara]

Wales tend to love holding onto the ball for extended periods of time and go nowhere. Sides like the ABs actually kick a lot and the vast majority of their tries are off turnover or 1-3 phase ball. Beyond that they actually don't score that regularly. Statistically, kicking when you haven't got anywhere after about 5 phases is the best course of action to break up the field of play. Even if they just kick it straight back to you, there is now no longer a set defence. This relies on kicks being contested and sides able to switch to counter attack rapidly, something NH sides are nowhere near as good as NZ at.

NH sides rely on structure, NZ rely on chaos. Contested kicks create chaos, possession creates structure.

I now understand why Aaron Smith relies so much on box kicks down the touchline when the opposite defense is well set! That was enlightening, thanks ragerancher

 

[curtbob7]

Cant help but think what this tour would be like right now if it was Eddie Jones in charge instead of Gats...

 

[mosfeldt]

Cant help but think what this tour would be like right now if it was Eddie Jones in charge instead of Gats...

Why? Gats has one of the most impressive CVs in rugby.

ITM Cup x 1
The English Premiership x 3
Heineken Cup x 1
ECC x 1
6 Nations x 3 - INCLUDING 2 GRAND SLAMS
A Lions tour
Made it to a WC semi-final (that Wales arguably should've won)

I have no problem with him being the coach. The weak link is Howley.

 

[Nubiwan]

A win is a win but worringly no tries again. Can`t understand why Rob Howley is the attack coach when Walkes were woeful in attack in the six nations (I`m a welshman and passionate wales supporter).

However what annoys me most is the use of the box kick -whats the point? The Lions ( and Wales ) will go through multiple lphases of play, or win a good opposition lineout, or win turnover ball only for the scrum half to kick possession away back to the opposition.

I was always told the three most important words when playing were -
POSSESSION< POSSESSION< POSSESSION.

If they are in a position where they have to kick, give it to the outside half who has a much better overview of the game and who can either kick long into space, or preferably kick long into touch where at least the Lions can compete and/or spoil at the lineout.

Also kick offs - it should fall into a five metre square area underneath the advancing Lions pack where again they have a chance to compete in the air for the ball = just to kick it long to southern hemisphere teams who relish to chance to run at the opposition with ball in hand is madness.

Agree! The box kick is overused and hardly disguised. Its like. Here it comes lads. Have to say it was very effective with Murray kicking the ball, but the outings with Laidlaw and Webb proved to be disappointing in terms of their accuracy, and just general overuse of the tactic. It's almost like the Lions admitting they don't want to run out from inside their own half. What is equally worrying has been some of our defending of the same tactic when the NZ sides have used it. 9 times out of 10, they seem to come down with the ball, or at least force some sort of error to our wingers or fullback. I know it is a territorial game for the Lions, but it occurs to me that at some point, they might well have to run the ball from under their own sticks, or inside their own half, in order to get back into a match. It'll be completely foreign for them. Perhaps in the earlier games, if expendable in terms of the final score, they could attempt to be a little more enterprising than a f3cking box kick. I swear it is at least 50 percent of our possession kicked away. If the Lions dont back themselves now, then we can be sure the sphincters will be tighter than a ducks proverbial going into those test games. Box kick city - here we come. Shee-ite!

I thought Biggars kick offs were pretty friggin excellent against the Highlanders. Things were hanging in the air for 4 or 5 seconds and the resultant chase was generally equally decent. Plenty of the NZ kick offs, in comparison, went to Stander who was basically allowed to start running with little pressure.

 

[TopTen2003]

I appreciate the importance of the kicking game in modern rugby but for me he Lions are not smart with it in terms of territory.

If they are serious about beating the All Blacks they have got to be able to build phases and they have to get this AB side going backwards. You won't do that by kicking. If you aren't confident that you can sustain possession for a period of time then you are not going to go far in NZ.

They are THE best running and counter attack side in the world. Don't kick it to them! Starve them of the ball.

Appreciate that when you're on the back foot and in your own third of the field you need to boot it long but for me the Lions need to hit touch with almost every kick-put the pressure on the lineouts rather than letting these supremely talented guys run back at you.

Rob Howleys obsession with this attack 'chaos' is beginning to alienate me- I have barely seen a good passage of play from the Lions backline so I hope they are seriously holding something backin terms of plans and ideas.

 

[The Jones Boy]

NZ rely on chaos.

ha ha That made me laugh (not in a sarcastic way)
Bring the chaos so the players can feed...

 

[The Jones Boy]

They are THE best running and counter attack side in the world. Don't kick it to them! Starve them of the ball.

That sounds like a good idea to me. Other teams have used it to goood effect in the past. Trouble is it's not an easy thing to achieve and requires mighty players giving mighty performances to keep the ball away from the AB's for significant periods of time.
It has happened though and it always causes the AB's an issue.
No pill = no points.

 

[Vieux Talonneur]

I have no problem with him being the coach. The weak link is Howley.

But Howley was Gatland's choice. By definition Gatland stands or falls by his selection of coaches (and players).

 

[Nubiwan]

I appreciate the importance of the kicking game in modern rugby but for me he Lions are not smart with it in terms of territory.

If they are serious about beating the All Blacks they have got to be able to build phases and they have to get this AB side going backwards. You won't do that by kicking. If you aren't confident that you can sustain possession for a period of time then you are not going to go far in NZ.

They are THE best running and counter attack side in the world. Don't kick it to them! Starve them of the ball.

Appreciate that when you're on the back foot and in your own third of the field you need to boot it long but for me the Lions need to hit touch with almost every kick-put the pressure on the lineouts rather than letting these supremely talented guys run back at you.

Rob Howleys obsession with this attack 'chaos' is beginning to alienate me- I have barely seen a good passage of play from the Lions backline so I hope they are seriously holding something backin terms of plans and ideas.

What I said - but better.

 

[Nubiwan]

That sounds like a good idea to me. Other teams have used it to goood effect in the past. Trouble is it's not an easy thing to achieve and requires mighty players giving mighty performances to keep the ball away from the AB's for significant periods of time.
It has happened though and it always causes the AB's an issue.
No pill = no points.

Fact is, good NZ sides only need the ball on 3-4 decent occasions to inflict enough damage. The try by West for the Blues a perfect example of power running, the offload, and pace to finish untouched under the sticks. Possession is not the only thing, its what you can do with the ball. Kicking it to them just increases the number of times you will give them some quality options. Unless you are accurate, and have good chase and pressure, then its folly.

 

[curtbob7]

Why? Gats has one of the most impressive CVs in rugby.

ITM Cup x 1
The English Premiership x 3
Heineken Cup x 1
ECC x 1
6 Nations x 3 - INCLUDING 2 GRAND SLAMS
A Lions tour
Made it to a WC semi-final (that Wales arguably should've won)

I have no problem with him being the coach. The weak link is Howley.

Gatlands decisions to take Howley. Eddie wouldn't have taken him.

 

[Nubiwan]

Doesn't take a rugby Einstein to suggest Gatland, and most Lions fans for that matter, will be happy if they get respectable test performances from their side, and that they accomplish it on the basis of:

a solid pack performance,
secure possession from line out and scrums,
hard running up the mddle from center and/or forwards,
and minimal enterprise of note from wing or fulback, accept in defence, and goal kicking.

Based on what we have seen so far, there is no threat outside anyway. Certainly an inability / reluctance to move the ball well enough through hand to give them a chance. If I am Gatland, or indeed the lions 10, then I am thinking, keep it tight, keep it to our strengths, kick for position, make sure we chase well, and see were the chips fall. Above all miss no tackles. Essentially a 13 man game. Wingers and full back in attack are just "nice to haves", but rather luxuries. Shame really, but that's our game....

Our opposition will not feel so restricted with ball in hand, and will have less to concentrate on in terms of threats we possess. Stop us in our tracks around the break down, and it might be job done.