Super Rugby for dummies

[Xapi]

Alright, my particular background is probably not important, but I am an argentinian who intends to follow the Jaguares, but haven't really followed Super Rugby before.

So, what are the must knows of Super Rugby? Who are the top dogs, who are the constant disgraces?

Also, what do the players do after the SR season is over? It seems that the time without schedule is pretty high for high performance athletes.

 

[nickdnz]

Hi Xapi.

Firstly - I would say Super Rugby tends to have reasonably big ebbs and flows in terms of team form the Crusaders are the most successful team with 7 Super Rugby ***les (4 more than any other team), but haven't won since 2008. Crusaders (7 ***les), Blues (3 ***les), Bulls (3 ***les) Chiefs (2 ***les), Brumbies (2 ***les), Highlanders (1 ***le), Waratahs (1 ***le), Reds (1 ***le).

The worst performing teams traditionally I would probably say are the Western Force, Lions, Cheetahs, Rebels, Kings.

Super Rugby teams are franchises - and each franchise is made up of the best players from a variety of provincial teams. So after Super Rugby; NZ players go back to playing in the ITM Cup, South African players go back to playing in the Currie Cup, Australian players now go an play at a newly form competition the ARC.

 

[smartcooky]

I am disappointed.

I was hoping this thread was started by someone with a degree in advanced applied mathematics so that they could explain how next year's Super Rugby competititon format is going to work

 

[Kiwi_]

Highlanders are going to go back to back mate, NZ SR is going to dominate the play-offs for years to come even though the stupid rules allow for the weak teams to have more places. SA will be easy beats in the play-offs even with Eddie Jones they're spread too thin, Tahs and Brumbies will be hard to beat as will all of the Kiwi teams, the Blues will be better under Tana.

South Africa getting another franchise when all their players are migrating to Europe is just stupid and a waste of time, the other spot should have gone to a pacific island team, but it sounds like they can't get their sht sorted... ever, which is a shame.

 

[SelimNiai]

Hi Xapi.

Firstly - I would say Super Rugby tends to have reasonably big ebbs and flows in terms of team form the Crusaders are the most successful team with 7 Super Rugby ***les (4 more than any other team), but haven't won since 2008. Crusaders (7 ***les), Blues (3 ***les), Bulls (3 ***les) Chiefs (2 ***les), Brumbies (2 ***les), Highlanders (1 ***le), Waratahs (1 ***le), Reds (1 ***le).

The worst performing teams traditionally I would probably say are the Western Force, Lions, Cheetahs, Rebels, Kings.

Super Rugby teams are franchises - and each franchise is made up of the best players from a variety of provincial teams. So after Super Rugby; NZ players go back to playing in the ITM Cup, South African players go back to playing in the Currie Cup, Australian players now go an play at a newly form competition the ARC.

Which by the results I've seen seems to forbid defending

 

[SomeOke]

Basically the New Zealand teams tend to be fairly dominant with a few cameo appearances from the other franchises.

In recent years the strong teams have been:
Crusaders/Chiefs/Hurricanes/Highlanders for NZ
Stormers/Bulls/Sharks - for SA
Brumbies/Tahs - for Aus

The reds had a great 2011 but since then have been on a downward spiral, force and rebels have struggled to perform consistently but can beat anyone on the day. The Brumbies and Tahs are both great well rounded teams but tend to hog all the talent in Aus which is why they tend to dominate the Aus conference.
The NZ teams I've mentioned are all strong, but the Crusaders are the traditionally dominant side, but in recent years I'd say the other three have been better. The blues are strong on paper but seem to either be beset by bad management or coaching.
The Bulls are the traditionally dominant side, but have struggled in recent years (due to outdated tactics in my opinion), the Stormers also have a good squad on paper but have tended to be defense oriented in recent years, the Sharks are basically the same. All three of these "traditionally dominant" unions are under new management this year so we might see a change in play-styles. The Cheetahs are a good little side but have less money than most of the other franchises and tend to struggle to hold onto quality players (and therefore generally fail to perform), the Lions are the one exciting side in SA at the moment, and will be my dark horses for this years competition. The Kings are a dud.

Edit: Oh and EVERYONE is excited for Argentina's inclusion, it's fair to say the Argies will be the "second team" of most people. Meaning if the Jaguars are playing anyone from Aus or NZ I will support them, and I doubt I am alone.

 

[Pampas]

Good reading. Which teams can we expect to qualify from each group?

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Good reading. Which teams can we expect to qualify from each group?

If I could venture a stab at this so far out:


The 2 SA conference has 3 allocated spots; the winner of each conference and the best runner up. I see SA conference 1 as the most likely to deliver 2 finalists. I say this because I see the 1st conference as having 2 powers in an otherwise weak conference itself and the Aussie conference to face instead of NZ teams whereas the 2nd conference would face sterner in-conference games and the NZ teams which as a collective is certainly more of a challenge than the Aus conference. So:

SA conference 1:
Stormers, Bulls

SA conference 2 is wide open IMO between the Lions, los Jaguares and if they can regain some sense of pride the Sharks. Seeing as the Lions have more experience (SR specifically) and will have less travel (this is a marathon, not a sprint) I'd put my money on the Lions ahead of the Jaguars by.. a whisker. Not that I'd really put a cent on it! I just can't see the Sharks bounce back from the mess they are in so quickly to do anything more than possibly spoiling it for the others. So:

SA conference 2:
Lions

The rest is a little more difficult for me. I would play it conservatively and say 3 teams from NZ and 2 teams from Aussie to fill the 5 spots allocated to the two Antipodean conferences. I say the Chiefs, Hurricanes, Highlanders, Waratahs and Brumbies are in it with the best shots. Its very difficult to leave the Crusaders out.. but I can't see the others drop. Maybe the Hurricanes. But I'll keep the 'Canes while saying the Crusaders and los Jaguares are my picks for likeliest to make a mess of my predictions. Reds I can't see turning it around from last year so quickly and I'm not touching the other Aus teams or the Blues. So, for the 5 NZ/Aus spots I have:

NZ conference:
Chiefs, Highlanders, Hurricanes

Aus conference:
Waratahs, Brumbies

Making up my 8 teams I predict to make the finals!

 

[Cruz_del_Sur]

I was trying to explain SR to a friend and found this that might be helpful for some.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5NG2i-Fwg

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Sportingbet's 2016 Super Rugby odds:Chiefs 6/1Crusaders 6/1Hurricanes 6/1Waratahs 13/2Argentina Franchise 10/1Brumbies 10/1Highlanders 10/1Stormers 11/1Bulls 14/1Sharks 14/1Blues 20/1Lions 22/1Reds 25/1Rebels 66/1Cheetahs 80/1Western Force 100/1Southern Kings 350/1Japan Sunwolves 500/1XXXI can't really argue with these odds.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Saders 6/1?

 

[Regan]

Crusaders ain't the team they use to be, their Super Rugby dominance is over, gone are the days of them getting into the finals every year and I think with key players leaving it's not going to get too much better for them. Not a bad side by any means but can't see them winning the whole thing.

 

[LeinsterMan (NotTigsMan)]

Crusaders ain't the team they use to be, their Super Rugby dominance is over, gone are the days of them getting into the finals every year and I think with key players leaving it's not going to get too much better for them. Not a bad side by any means but can't see them winning the whole thing.

Yep stupid odds IMO.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Well at close enought to halfway through the season I found it interesting to revisit this thread. What I can take away is I know SA rugby like the back of my hand while at the same time I should try to avoid saying anything regarding the others.

WRT the 8 finalists as it stands were the competition to end today the good thing with the new format is that the 8 teams with the most log poins would progress. The location of QFs would only be distorted by the Brumbies hosting a QF. There is a lot of rugby to play still and this might skew things more and there certainly is a lot of room for it in future tournaments. My biggest problem with the new format is the fact that the one SA conference only plays Oz teams and the other NZ teams. I suppose this is just an extension of the previous format where you played half of the one and half of the other while NZ and Aus teams still play half of the SA teams but still, somehow, the older one seemed more legit.

Anyway, I had the Storers, Lions and Bulls as my finalists from the SA conferences and that seems all but set. I have to say I am somewhat surprised by how poorly the Jaguares have been doing. The Sharks I had as 3rd in that conference and though they are fairing poorly at least they have a positive points f/a and have won as many as they have lost.

On that I am actually quite pleased all SA teams bar the Kings have a positive points f/a tab. Probably that's due to the Cheetahs raping the wolves but they can only play what's put in front of them. I actually have hope for the competition going forward. I don't think its gonna take long for the organizers to realize they need to make a change and its pretty clear what the issues are if not what the fix is ATM. Or am I being naive? In terms of competitiveness, I see the Lions as being highly competitive. They have their toughest games behind them and are sitting pretty. The Stormers are also in a good position with their toughest fixtures behind them, half won and half (against other SA sides) lost. The Bulls and Cheetahs seem to be improving. The Sharks have always been a fickle bunch, like the Blues for NZ they look strong on paper but it never seems to come together for them even though they've reached the finals a number of times. At least the Blues have 2 ***les to show for their strong spells. The Kings were always going to be whipping boys. They aren't even in the Currie Cup top 8 on merit. If SA deserved a 6th team is should've been the Pumas not the Kings but that's SA's unique political situation which is a sad reality. That said if the backroom and player roster can get some attention the Kings do have the talent pool, population and infrastructure to get there. But it'll probably take 5 to 10 years before they can look at a top half of the table finish if I am any judge. The thing to keep in mind is that of all the SA teams only the Lions have had any sort of continuity ITO players and coaching staff. The rest have 1/2 new teams and new head coaches. The Kings haven't had any sort of pre-season and had/have huge backroom issue regarding players not getting paid. Also apart from the Lions all the SA teams are missing their most key man; Pollard, Lambie and Du Preez all out. Also, our squads are very young and inexpererienced compared to others particularly the NZ teams. I can only see this situation improving.

What I didn't fuly expect but also doesn't surprise me is the Crusaders going up big time and the Waratahs going down. That but more so the Jaguares looking rudderless. The bookies saw the Crusaders as joint favorites and look bang on the money at this stage but even they had the Waratahs and Jaguares high up. I didn't see the Jaguaes going in ahead of the Lions but thought they'd be pushing.

 

[TRF_heineken]

@TRF_stormer2010, good analysis, from a SA perspective, and I tend to agree with most of this, but I think a lot can still change, especially for the SA teams. The Bulls and the Stormers still have to travel to Australasia and do their tours, which isn't going to be easy. The Bulls have to play the Waratahs, Brumbies and Force away. And that could be 3 losses in a row for them, which will definitely dent their hopes at a QF.

Nonetheless, I think we are slowly seeing which teams will be ***le contenders and who could cause upsets.

The 3 newcomers looks deadset on fighting for the wooden spoon, and it looks like its going to be the Sunwolves who'll end on the bottom of the log.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

@TRF_stormer2010, good analysis, from a SA perspective, and I tend to agree with most of this, but I think a lot can still change, especially for the SA teams. The Bulls and the Stormers still have to travel to Australasia and do their tours, which isn't going to be easy. The Bulls have to play the Waratahs, Brumbies and Force away. And that could be 3 losses in a row for them, which will definitely dent their hopes at a QF.

Nonetheless, I think we are slowly seeing which teams will be ***le contenders and who could cause upsets.

The 3 newcomers looks deadset on fighting for the wooden spoon, and it looks like its going to be the Sunwolves who'll end on the bottom of the log.

The Bulls should get 1 win at least on the road I'd imagine. Couple that with the fact that your boys will face us at home next along with the rest of your fixtures and I am sure the best runner up will come from our conference when you look at the poor showings from the Sharks and Jaguares. The Sharks still have to face the Highanders and Chiefs in NZ. The Stormers face both Reds and Waratahs at home. On the road we still have the Sunwolves, Rebels and Force. If we lose any of those 3 tour games we don't deserve our position. Nah, its us, your boys and the Lions going through.

 

[TRF_heineken]

The Bulls should get 1 win at least on the road I'd imagine. Couple that with the fact that your boys will face us at home next along with the rest of your fixtures and I am sure the best runner up will come from our conference when you look at the poor showings from the Sharks and Jaguares. The Sharks still have to face the Highanders and Chiefs in NZ. The Stormers face both Reds and Waratahs at home. On the road we still have the Sunwolves, Rebels and Force. If we lose any of those 3 tour games we don't deserve our position. Nah, its us, your boys and the Lions going through.

True...

And the Bulls have at the moment only lost one game so far...

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

True...

And the Bulls have at the moment only lost one game so far...

And that at the start. No reason to expect either of our top 3 teams to slide. All 3 have been playing some enterprising rugby. The one where we went back into our shells was the one where we lost poorly (Sharks) so I don't expect we'll make that mistake again too easily.

 

[saulan]

And that at the start. No reason to expect either of our top 3 teams to slide. All 3 have been playing some enterprising rugby. The one where we went back into our shells was the one where we lost poorly (Sharks) so I don't expect we'll make that mistake again too easily.

I am slightly worried about the Stormers defense though. Our hits against the Lions were big but we slipped off too many tackles. Same thing in the Sunwolves match. Slightly concerned we have lost our edge in that department without having developed much more in our attack.