I had my doubts about super 15 but I think losing 3 teams has really helped super rugby. Arguably any team can beat any other team (save for the sunwolves). I just wish they would cut the sunwolves and go back to super 14 with every team playing each other once. Then the work will be done.
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Super 15 success???
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AM_Bokke
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Yeah I think so.
I really like Super Rugby. Even the relatively poor games like Jaguares v. Reds I find exciting. The game play is just excellent.
I commented on the other thread but the Aussie teams still need to be consistent at a higher level and the Jags need to finish strong. I am very happy about the Jags win yesterday.
I am a Sunwolves fan. We all need to remember that expansion teams are always though to get started and that the business case for the Sunwolves is very strong. But yeah, I do feel like SANZAAR screwed up their launch.
If the JRFU, Top League and SANZAAR were all on the same page and the results were the same I think that it would help. But they're not and the conflict between the Sunwolve's stakeholders really shows. But rugby politics is brutal and ugly all over the globe so it's not like it's strange.
The sunwolves had one win in their first season and two in their second. If they got three this year I would be so, so happy.
I really like Super Rugby. Even the relatively poor games like Jaguares v. Reds I find exciting. The game play is just excellent.
I commented on the other thread but the Aussie teams still need to be consistent at a higher level and the Jags need to finish strong. I am very happy about the Jags win yesterday.
I am a Sunwolves fan. We all need to remember that expansion teams are always though to get started and that the business case for the Sunwolves is very strong. But yeah, I do feel like SANZAAR screwed up their launch.
If the JRFU, Top League and SANZAAR were all on the same page and the results were the same I think that it would help. But they're not and the conflict between the Sunwolve's stakeholders really shows. But rugby politics is brutal and ugly all over the globe so it's not like it's strange.
The sunwolves had one win in their first season and two in their second. If they got three this year I would be so, so happy.
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Sunwolves need to try and sign some of the good foreign talent in there Top league too many jounrymen.
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I think the big improvement is that teams from each conference must play teams from every other conference. But they didn't need to cut teams to achieve that.
I'm not a fan of the Force getting cut (to put it mildly) and think that the sport is at a really low ebb in SA and Oz because their sides cannot be competitive (due to losing talent to Europe and / or mismanagement). There is a very long way to go. The product on the field is good though.
AM_Bokke
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Yeah well, rugby is not association football.
I guess in part because I am American I don't feel like every team needs to play every team. It makes plenty of sense why every team does not play every other team in Super Rugby. I have no problem with it.
I guess in part because I am American I don't feel like every team needs to play every team. It makes plenty of sense why every team does not play every other team in Super Rugby. I have no problem with it.
Sixways Cheryl
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It's still the most entertaining rugby competition in the world for a neutral & I'll always make an effort to watch it (particularly the New Zealand sides) if I can.
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sunwolves are doing way better than rebels, force, kings and cheetahs when they first started
They are not doing better than the Cheetahs, Cheetahs won 5 games per season 1, 4 in season 3, 1 in season 3 (their lowest), 2 in season 4 and 5 in season 5. After that they never won fewer than 4 in any one season. They may have been very mediocre but they were never as bad as the Sunwolves are at the moment.
AM_Bokke
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Yep. And the 'wolves are profitable from what I understand. They don't cost anyone money, have a pretty decent average attendence of 12K(ish) and are breaking into a new market.
And they are not Super Rugby's core problem. Super Rugby's core problem is that NZ has a very good generation of players while SA and Aus both happen to have some structural issues.
I see no reason to dump them.
And they are not Super Rugby's core problem. Super Rugby's core problem is that NZ has a very good generation of players while SA and Aus both happen to have some structural issues.
I see no reason to dump them.
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thanks for the correction. so just better than the rebels, force and kings
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agree, theyre less easy beats than kings rebels and force were. as you say they arent a financial burden on anyone. they bring a big audience and are a foot hold into the asia market.
My main bugbear is that every team doesn't play every other team. Also some teams have easier schedules that others. If the sunwolves must be kept then this is not a reason to change the format. I'd get rid of the conferences. Each team can play every other team once. Every team would play every other team. All teams would have 7 home and 7 away games. About as fair as you can make it short of making each team play each other home and away.
The competition has definitely improved this year - they simplified the formula again so most could understand it, the Aussies and Saffer teams look to be stronger so there are far fewer blow-out games.
The real problem is lack of bums in seats - the problem is my friends and are are pretty much the most obsessive rugby people in all of Cape Town but we dislike going to Newlands. It's not just that it's a bit of a pain in the arse, and the facilities are crummy it's more that it can't compete with the TV experience.
I'd far rather watch the games with a few beers at my place in front of a huge TV, with quality commentary, good mates and the ability to pause whenever we have an argument over a ref call.
The real problem is lack of bums in seats - the problem is my friends and are are pretty much the most obsessive rugby people in all of Cape Town but we dislike going to Newlands. It's not just that it's a bit of a pain in the arse, and the facilities are crummy it's more that it can't compete with the TV experience.
I'd far rather watch the games with a few beers at my place in front of a huge TV, with quality commentary, good mates and the ability to pause whenever we have an argument over a ref call.
In that case my solution would be play each team in the conference both home and away and then play every other team once. Similar to how it is now but with every team playing every other team.
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so u think its much fairer at the moment? or last season where teams didnt get to play a conference at all?
Would be a great idea but the matches would extend to 18 rounds, play 4 from each of the other conference would reduce it by 2 matches to give 16 and create a fair, 2 home 2 away v each conference.
The fixtures would also be by a seeding system, so strong play strong and weak play weak, as this would narrow the points differences creating more excitement across all teams.
AM_Bokke
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The old conferance system was horrible. This is much better. Lions benefited last year for sure.
Yeah, I think it's fair. It's the same division and playoff seeding system that the NFL uses. Win your division of 3 other teams, played home and away, and get a home playoff game. It helps to keep a lot of teams in contention for home playoff games. And it helps to spread them around over multiple years. Which is good for fan engagement.
I don't think that leagues with playoff systems need to play every other team. And as others have noted, bonus point systems and playoffs are a good match because teams can be on top of the log only because they accumulated points in a preferential way, not necessarily because they are better at actually winning games.
It also seems clear that SR fans like the derbies. They make sure that a countries talent visits every fan base every year.
