Super 15: Chiefs - Hurricanes @ Waikato Stadium, Hamilton (10-06-2011, 08:35 GMT)

TRF_Ezequiel · Jun 8, 2011

Waikato Stadium, Hamilton (10-06-2011, 08:35 GMT)

The first match of this weekend on Friday is between the Chiefs and the Hurricanes. The Waikato side has nothing to play for, neither do the Hurricanes. Despite that, they both want to perform well and next week both of them can cause an upset in the race for the play offs when they meet the Reds (who travel to Hamilton) and the Crusaders (who arrive in Wellington).

Earlier this year, the 2 met in Wellington when the Canes scored 3 points more, claiming the win despite scoring less tries. Schwalger and Keats crossed the line, scoring converted tries, for the Canes, with Cruden (3) and Kirkpatrick (2) scoring additional penalties. The Chiefs scored 3, thanks to Donald, Waldrom and Nanai-Williams. Only 1 of those tries was converted by Donald, missing out on 4 points that would have given them the win.

This week, the Chiefs will look to bounce back and having beaten the Stormers recently, they have shown they are a force in Hamilton to be reckoned with. The Sharks also lost there earlier this season.

The Hurricanes have only won once in Hamilton in over a decade. This was in 2007 when they scored 39 points, trumping the 32 by the Canes. If things change to the starting years of Super Rugby, this match will defnitely be won by the Canes. Between 1996 and 2001, matches between the 2 franchises were all won by the visitors.

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*Vbookie odds supplied by BWIN*

L

Larksea

First XV

TRF Legend

Jun 9, 2011

#2

Chiefs to win. After a slow start to the season the chiefs are now one of the Two form NZ sides with the Crusaders after recent wins over the Highlanders, Blues and stormers in the 2nd half of the season. The canes are coming off a couple of wins but they were against the lowly Lions and Force without James O'Connor.

The Chiefs season overall was Mared by some early losses of games they simply should have won against the Blues, Brumbies, Highalnders and Hurricanes during their now trademark slow start to the season under Fosters Coaching. They got revenge on the Blues and Highlanders and now it's time for the Hurricanes.

Despite it being a dead rubber as far as the overall comp goes this should be one of the games of the round sporting a key matchups between Cruden and Donald, Leonard & Weepu, Smith & Kahui, Gear & Sivivatu, Jane & Mills, Messam & Vito, Hore & Elliot all going head to head for all black selection. That by itself should spark some fireworks.

Darwin

AKA Dingo_Darwin

Jun 9, 2011

#3

Chiefs: Mils Muliaina, Lelia Masaga, Richard Kahui, Dwayne Sweeney, Sitiveni Sivivatu, Stephen Donald, Brendon Leonard, Fritz Lee, Tanerau Latimer, Liam Messam , Isaac Ross, Craig Clarke, Nathan White, Hika Elliot, Ben May. Reserves: Aled de Malmanche, Toby Smith, Matt Vant Leven, Tawera Kerr-Barlow, Tim Nanai-Williams, Jackson Willison

Hurricanes: Cory Jane, Julian Savea, Alapati Leiua, Ma'a Nonu, Hosea Gear, Aaron Cruden, Piri Weepu, Victor Vito, Jack Lam, Faifili Levave, James Broadhurst, Jeremy Thrush, Neemia Tialata, Andrew Hore (c), John Schwalger. Reserves: Dane Coles, Jacob Ellison, Jason Eaton, Mark Reddish / Karl Lowe, Tyson keats, Jayden Hayward, Richard Buckman.

Two changes for the Chiefs, with Sweeney and Ross replacing the injured Umuga and Romana Graham. It will be interesting to see if the Chiefs backline is as effective as it was last week with Sweeney at 12 instead of Umaga (I supsect not!). Savea comes in for the Hurricanes, with Leiua moving into centre to replace Jayden Hayward, who had a poor game last week. It certainly adds even more attacking prowess to the Canes backline, with the entire Canes backline full of players that are deadly given a a bit of space.

Larksea has already pointed out the key matchups this game. I'm particularily looking forward to the battle between the two loose-forward trios; I'm sure there will be some big hits coming from the likes of Lam, Levave, Messem, and Lee!

I'm hoping Weepu continues to show some improved form, while the matchup between Cruden and Donald may well decide who wins the match. Gear v Masaga will be a great matchup on one wing, while I expect Sivivatu will cause Savea all sorts of issues on the other wing, as Sivivatu was looked incredibly dangerous last week and Savea does struggle defensivley. However Savea could cause Sivivatu some problems himself if he gets some a bit of room to move. I'm hoping Cory Jane has an improved game, as he has been very disappointing this season in my opinion. It certainly would be a good game to show his wares agasint the incumbant All Blacks fullback. Incidently, it was great to see Muliaina have a strong game last week; hopefully that was a sign of what is to come.

I'm expecting it to be a close game, but I'm picking the Chiefs to take it, largely due to their home ground advantage.

Last edited: Jun 9, 2011

TRF Mr Fish

Your Piscine Overlord

TRF Legend

Jun 9, 2011

#4

Interestingly enough, bar Vito, all of the loosies have played for either the Chiefs or Waikato.

L

Larksea

First XV

TRF Legend

Jun 9, 2011

#5

shame I see smith is out. Midfield matchup will be more about Nonu vs. kahui anyway. Kicker for me is Sweeney who IMO is the weakest link. Still dont understand why Willison doesn't get a run.

Still some really great match ups. Could decide who gets NZ's wooden spoon. Currently the two free points the hurricanes got for the crucaders game is keeping their nose ahead.

Amobokoboko

Waikato Junglist

Jun 9, 2011

#6

I'm also picking the Chiefs, the are on form and need to win the last two games to finish the season in style.

Mrs. Peter Quinn

International

TRF Legend

Jun 10, 2011

#7

Sounds harsh but Leonard was singlehandedly responsible for that hurricanes try, awful clearance!

TRF_Olyy

English Arrogance

Staff member

TRF Legend

TRF Supporter

Jun 10, 2011

#8

Cracking try by Hurricanes!
Great offloading

Mrs. Peter Quinn

International

TRF Legend

Jun 10, 2011

#9

Kerr-Barlow has looked sharp in his few minutes, better than Leonard In my opinion. Think this could end as a draw, but If the Chiefs had been able to take their lineout ball and keep up the pressure in hurricanes territory I think they would be edging it. Still time if Donald can put a kick into the corner.

TRF_Ezequiel

Kanko Krazy!!!

TRF Legend

Jun 10, 2011

#10

It's good to see that matches where nothing is at stake, can still be so exciting to watch

TRF Mr Fish

Your Piscine Overlord

TRF Legend

Jun 10, 2011

#11

HenryChinaski said:
Kerr-Barlow has looked sharp in his few minutes, better than Leonard In my opinion. Think this could end as a draw, but If the Chiefs had been able to take their lineout ball and keep up the pressure in hurricanes territory I think they would be edging it. Still time if Donald can put a kick into the corner.

I'm always worried when Kerr-Barlow comes on.

ranger

First XV

Jun 10, 2011

#12

Invictus said:
I'm always worried when Kerr-Barlow comes on.

I think you can put some of his play down to trying too hard though. He gets 10 minutes at the end of the game to try and show what hes got and always seems to push his hand too much. He should come right once Leonard leaves and he can settle into the 9 jersey

TRF Mr Fish

Your Piscine Overlord

TRF Legend

Jun 10, 2011

#13

ranger said:
I think you can put some of his play down to trying too hard though. He gets 10 minutes at the end of the game to try and show what hes got and always seems to push his hand too much. He should come right once Leonard leaves and he can settle into the 9 jersey

That's definitely part of it, but even when he's starting he's quite erratic - though I suppose some people would just call that the X factor...

Darwin

AKA Dingo_Darwin

Jun 11, 2011

#14

Bit of a messy game, though the conditions certainly weren't great for running rugby. I felt the draw was probably a fair reflection of the game, though I did think the Canes player that charged down the last gasp drop-goal attempt by Donald may have been offside (I haven't seen a replay though).

I thought Ben May had a good game for the Chiefs; I've never been a big fan, but he's been impressive these last two weeks. He's rumoured to be heading to the Canes next year, so I'm sure the Canes selectors would have been happy with what they saw. Hika Elliot had a solid game at hooker; I like the fact that he no longer runs completely upright, meaning he makes some good yard around the base of the breakdown. I wasn't at all surprised to see the Chiefs lose the first three lineouts they had after de Malmanche came on. I was particularly impressed by Latimer this week (as I was last week). He was quick around the park, accurate at the breakdown, and strong with ball in hand. Earlier in the season when he was playing alongside Waldrom he was not near as effective. It is rumoured the Chiefs don't want him next year, and if that is the case I'd be more than happy to have him as the starting 7 at the Highlanders! Messem continued to play as he has all season, while Lee again showed promise, though still has a wee way to go. In some ways Lee reminds me of a young Liam Messem: powerful with ball in hand, able to make some big hits on defense, but making quite a few little errors. He certainly has a big future ahead of him though.

I wasn't very impressed with Leonard. He made a few handling errors, and his box-kicking (usually a strength of his) wasn't overly accurate. He seemed to be continuously over-kicking his kicks meaning the Canes players (usually Savea) were under no pressure what-so-ever to catch the ball. Donald had a reasonable game, like his opposite Cruden he made a few errors, but he ran strongly at the line, and his defense (barring an early missed tackle on Savea) was very good. Kahui was ok, though he did miss a few tackles. I hope his shoulder/neck injury that forced him from the field wasn't too serious. I was incredibly impressed with Masaga this match, not only was he dangerous in attack (as always), but he also looked solid under the high-ball and was strong in defence. It was probably the most complete game I've seen him play. Sivivatu looked good on the other wing too, I was particularly impressed with his ability to take the high ball under quite a lot of pressure. I do worry a bit about Sivivatu's defence though. Sivivatu was putting himself in good positions to make tackles, and made a couple of very impressive covering tackles, but he did fall off a couple of tackles he clearly should have made. His tackling technique looked fine, he just seemed to let go of the player rather than completing the tackle.

I thought Nemia Tialata had a pretty good game for the Canes; it was good to see him hit the line with a bit of force for a change. Hore had a strong game at hooker as well. Vito was good off the back of the scrum, while Lam had a huge work-rate as usual. I'm not sure though that Lam should be the Canes primary ball carrier though, as he is clearly the smallest forward on the team, and many of his carries were largely ineffective. Levave I thought was pretty quiet, and I think he was lucky to get away with a late shoulder charge on Leonard.

I was really happy to see Weepu continue to show improvement, both in his game and his waistline. He seemed to be gaining confidence again, and his box-kicking was very accurate, with the Chiefs players invariably getting the ball and the man at the same time. Cruden, like Donald, had a mixed game. He lost the ball a couple of times in contact, though did seem to be able to break the line with ease at times. I am really impressed with the improvements he has made in his goal-kicking and punting; though I don't think he is ready for the AB's yet, he certainly looks like he will be a very good All Black in the near future. Nonu was good at 12, but I wasn't convinced with Leiua at 13. Leiua was ok, but I don't think he is suited to the midfield, as whenever he got the ball his first instinct was always to have a go, rather than to distribute. A couple of times he should have simply passed it to Gear, as Gear would have had some space to cause damage. Gear had a reasonable game, he certainly looked hard to bring down, while I was also impressed by Savea, who is starting to look more comfortable at this level. Savea was safe under the high-ball (though wasn't under too much pressure), ran well, and showed he also possess a big punt when necessary. I'm a bit worried about Jane, who still looks out of sorts to me. He may make the Tri-nations squad on reputation, but he is going to have to show some good form if he wants to retain his spot for the RWC.

TRF Mr Fish

Your Piscine Overlord

TRF Legend

Jun 11, 2011

#15

darwin_23 said:
Bit of a messy game, though the conditions certainly weren't great for running rugby. I felt the draw was probably a fair reflection of the game, though I did think the Canes player that charged down the last gasp drop-goal attempt by Donald may have been offside (I haven't seen a replay though).

I thought Ben May had a good game for the Chiefs; I've never been a big fan, but he's been impressive these last two weeks. He's rumoured to be heading to the Canes next year, so I'm sure the Canes selectors would have been happy with what they saw. Hika Elliot had a solid game at hooker; I like the fact that he no longer runs completely upright, meaning he makes some good yard around the base of the breakdown. I wasn't at all surprised to see the Chiefs lose the first three lineouts they had after de Malmanche came on. I was particularly impressed by Latimer this week (as I was last week). He was quick around the park, accurate at the breakdown, and strong with ball in hand. Earlier in the season when he was playing alongside Waldrom he was not near as effective. It is rumoured the Chiefs don't want him next year, and if that is the case I'd be more than happy to have him as the starting 7 at the Highlanders! Messem continued to play as he has all season, while Lee again showed promise, though still has a wee way to go. In some ways Lee reminds me of a young Liam Messem: powerful with ball in hand, able to make some big hits on defense, but making quite a few little errors. He certainly has a big future ahead of him though.

I wasn't very impressed with Leonard. He made a few handling errors, and his box-kicking (usually a strength of his) wasn't overly accurate. He seemed to be continuously over-kicking his kicks meaning the Canes players (usually Savea) were under no pressure what-so-ever to catch the ball. Donald had a reasonable game, like his opposite Cruden he made a few errors, but he ran strongly at the line, and his defense (barring an early missed tackle on Savea) was very good. Kahui was ok, though he did miss a few tackles. I hope his shoulder/neck injury that forced him from the field wasn't too serious. I was incredibly impressed with Masaga this match, not only was he dangerous in attack (as always), but he also looked solid under the high-ball and was strong in defence. It was probably the most complete game I've seen him play. Sivivatu looked good on the other wing too, I was particularly impressed with his ability to take the high ball under quite a lot of pressure. I do worry a bit about Sivivatu's defence though. Sivivatu was putting himself in good positions to make tackles, and made a couple of very impressive covering tackles, but he did fall off a couple of tackles he clearly should have made. His tackling technique looked fine, he just seemed to let go of the player rather than completing the tackle.

I thought Nemia Tialata had a pretty good game for the Canes; it was good to see him hit the line with a bit of force for a change. Hore had a strong game at hooker as well. Vito was good off the back of the scrum, while Lam had a huge work-rate as usual. I'm not sure though that Lam should be the Canes primary ball carrier though, as he is clearly the smallest forward on the team, and many of his carries were largely ineffective. Levave I thought was pretty quiet, and I think he was lucky to get away with a late shoulder charge on Leonard.

I was really happy to see Weepu continue to show improvement, both in his game and his waistline. He seemed to be gaining confidence again, and his box-kicking was very accurate, with the Chiefs players invariably getting the ball and the man at the same time. Cruden, like Donald, had a mixed game. He lost the ball a couple of times in contact, though did seem to be able to break the line with ease at times. I am really impressed with the improvements he has made in his goal-kicking and punting; though I don't think he is ready for the AB's yet, he certainly looks like he will be a very good All Black in the near future. Nonu was good at 12, but I wasn't convinced with Leiua at 13. Leiua was ok, but I don't think he is suited to the midfield, as whenever he got the ball his first instinct was always to have a go, rather than to distribute. A couple of times he should have simply passed it to Gear, as Gear would have had some space to cause damage. Gear had a reasonable game, he certainly looked hard to bring down, while I was also impressed by Savea, who is starting to look more comfortable at this level. Savea was safe under the high-ball (though wasn't under too much pressure), ran well, and showed he also possess a big punt when necessary. I'm a bit worried about Jane, who still looks out of sorts to me. He may make the Tri-nations squad on reputation, but he is going to have to show some good form if he wants to retain his spot for the RWC.

I only saw two things Leonard did wrong all game, to be honest. His kick that only gained a few metres, which resulted in the Canes' first try, and at one point he knocked on the ball at the ruck.

I thought his box kicking was great, has been all season. People keep going on about Cowan's kicking but I think Leonard has been the best kicker from the ruck this year.

For this reason, I think it will be between him and Ellis for the third halfback spot. Mathewson can't kick, one of the major requirements for a NZ halfback due to the lack of a kicking option outside of Carter, generally.

Darwin

AKA Dingo_Darwin

Jun 11, 2011

#16

Invictus said:
I only saw two things Leonard did wrong all game, to be honest. His kick that only gained a few metres, which resulted in the Canes' first try, and at one point he knocked on the ball at the ruck.

I thought his box kicking was great, has been all season. People keep going on about Cowan's kicking but I think Leonard has been the best kicker from the ruck this year.

For this reason, I think it will be between him and Ellis for the third halfback spot. Mathewson can't kick, one of the major requirements for a NZ halfback due to the lack of a kicking option outside of Carter, generally.

I agree that Leonard's box-kicking has been great all season, but it was poor last night. He continually kicked the ball too far, therefore Savea, Gear, and Jane were never under any pressure what-so-ever to catch the ball, so all he was doing was giving the ball straight ball to the Hurricanes. If it had been a dry night the Canes back-three could well have punished him for his inaccurate kicking. In contrast ever time Weepu kicked the ball the receiving Chiefs player almost always had a Hurricanes player right on him putting him under pressure; if it wasn't for the brilliance of Sivivatu on a couple of occasions the Chiefs could have really been in trouble.

TRF Mr Fish

Your Piscine Overlord

TRF Legend

Jun 11, 2011

#17

darwin_23 said:
I agree that Leonard's box-kicking has been great all season, but it was poor last night. He continually kicked the ball too far, therefore Savea, Gear, and Jane were never under any pressure what-so-ever to catch the ball, so all he was doing was giving the ball straight ball to the Hurricanes. If it had been a dry night the Canes back-three could well have punished him for his inaccurate kicking. In contrast ever time Weepu kicked the ball the receiving Chiefs player almost always had a Hurricanes player right on him putting him under pressure; if it wasn't for the brilliance of Sivivatu on a couple of occasions the Chiefs could have really been in trouble.

The thing with box kicking, is that the end result comes down to luck, a lot of the time. At times Leonard's kicks may have gone slightly further than what would have been best, but this was by mere metres - and I don't think any kicker can make such accurate judgements. In the same way that you'd say that getting a hole in one in golf was mainly luck, not skill, as I don't think you see golfers aiming for the hole straight up, they just aim for the green. Any discrepancies between the two halfback's kicking I think was probably down to luck more than anything.

Darwin

AKA Dingo_Darwin

Jun 11, 2011

#18

Invictus said:
The thing with box kicking, is that the end result comes down to luck, a lot of the time. At times Leonard's kicks may have gone slightly further than what would have been best, but this was by mere metres - and I don't think any kicker can make such accurate judgements. In the same way that you'd say that getting a hole in one in golf was mainly luck, not skill, as I don't think you see golfers aiming for the hole straight up, they just aim for the green. Any discrepancies between the two halfback's kicking I think was probably down to luck more than anything.

The exact placement of the kick may have some degree of luck, but it was clear to me Leonard was significantly over-kicking the ball almost every-time, no amount of 'luck' was going to make these good kicks (unless he was 'lucky' enough to kick it 10 metres less....). The strength of Leonard's game this season has been pinpoint box-kicking; I've seen this nearly every game this season, but it clearly wasn't the case last night. I'd imagine Leonard is certainly in contention for the AB's, as he's been pretty consistent all season, but I'd say he'd still be behind Cowan, Weepu, Ellis, and Mathewson in the pecking order (though there is not much between Ellis, Mathewson and Leonard). As you say, Mathewson lack of a quality kicking game will likely count against him.

N

nickdnz

International

TRF Legend

Jun 11, 2011

#19

I think Savea had his best game of the season. As mentioned by darwin_23, he was solid under the heigh ball and had a decent kicking game (as mentioned he wasn't under much pressure). He wasn't explosive and as exciting as he can be, but he didn't make the mistakes which keeps him out of the starting XV.

I acutally though Leonard has a pretty good game. He didn't make some of the terrible bumbles that I'm used to, but I don't think he earned a spot near the AB's either. For me, I'd still go with Cowan, Weepu and Mathewson as each offer something slightly different, where as Ellis offers nothing new.

Darwin

AKA Dingo_Darwin

Jun 12, 2011

#20

TRF_nickdnz said:
I think Savea had his best game of the season. As mentioned by darwin_23, he was solid under the heigh ball and had a decent kicking game (as mentioned he wasn't under much pressure). He wasn't explosive and as exciting as he can be, but he didn't make the mistakes which keeps him out of the starting XV.

I acutally though Leonard has a pretty good game. He didn't make some of the terrible bumbles that I'm used to, but I don't think he earned a spot near the AB's either. For me, I'd still go with Cowan, Weepu and Mathewson as each offer something slightly different, where as Ellis offers nothing new.

I didn't think Leonard was that bad, it was just that his kicking (which is usually a strength) was nowhere near up to his usual standard. When I stated that his box-kicking was poor I was more referring to poor in comparison to his usual high standard; it was still a lot better than Mathewson's kicking has ever been! Like you I still favour Cowan, Weepu, and Mathewson, but every time Mathewsons lack of a kicking game is exposed I become a bit less convinced. Personally I can't see the selectors going past Wepu, Cowan, and Ellis though.