Sofiane Guitoune to join Bordeaux

[Big Ewis]

With Perpignan in relegation peril, Guitoune would want to remain in elite company. The UBB has shown interest for the young winger. He would play as Fullback though, which doesn't do him justice...I really hope he finds a way to stay on the wing because he has tremendous potential, like, rare stuff, and has already shown the sort of prolific scorer he can be there already.
Bordeaux is looking pretty good with some of those additions in the making for next year...

 

[TheSaffycen]

why don't your team Toulouse go for him ? With Clerc looking old and injured and Ho$ea Gear going off to Japan, he looks like the perfect guy for you to get.

 

[Big Ewis]

I'd love that to happen, but I believe Toulouse are getting poor Alexis Palisson from Toulon who hasn't played a second this season and barely any time last year in the Var. As for Vincent Clerc, the way he's talking about his career he's not ready to put the shoes away just yet. He's talking about getting more time in his club gradually, and then getting back into the French xv so...

But Guitoune in Toulouse, man, that would be lovely. But many are saying he'll probably end up in a "bigger market" team. I just wish him to be in the best possible conditions and play the most minutes possible, because he's awesome to watch and I want him to grow and feel like a priority to his club, not just the 10th winger on the roster or wtvr.

 

[FrenchFan]

yeah i'd like to see Guitoune play for us. Haven't heard anything thru the grapevine. Will sniff around to find out. Bordeaux have an attractive backline and Etcheto is a good backline coach. Here is a guy who knows something about backplay, he is young full of ideas, very innovative guy. But he's a free thinker and he is a club man.

Dont see Guitoune as FB. He's an out and out wing. He likes living off the edge along that white line...this guy has a fantastic eye for a gap. He does know how where space is. Haven't seen him play as FB. Will ask my catalan mafia here what they think

Vincent Clerc needs to put his Intl carreer on standby and focused on his club. So thinks Noves his father in law. Can't be chasing both any longer. We need him here. Not in fukking australia.

 

[Big Ewis]

well Clerc could do both. I'd love to see him in the xv de France again, it'd bring back a nostalgic image of the "good old days" for France. He represents my early beginnings watching Rugby, along with the Pelous, Rougerie, Nallet, Chabal, Yach, FTD, Mas...
The guy has got to go down as one of the greatest wingers of all-time. His vision of gaps and the line is lethal, and his ability to cross is special. He's got a little bit of magic in him...

Anyways: Guitoune as a wing or as nothing at all, I say. Boy did we miss him last 6N...

 

[FrenchFan]

he is 33 so for me he has another season until the next WC and that's it. He can't expect much more and that's provided he stays injury free which hasn't been his case.
he will have to focus on his club career partly because of his age & the demand the club will put on him. And don't be surprised if the club doesn't play ball with the national selector, it'll be harder now for him to get the toulousains he wants. He might get some of them but not all of them and not the ones he wants when he needs them..what comes around goes around..

 

[Big Ewis]

lol well he's getting his Huget, Picamoles, Dusau, Nyanga for sure. They're vital to France. But maybe the others, like Clerc or Doussain, maybe Médard will become harder to get for PSA.
Yes he's 33, but he's looked good in red and black for his age and considering how long he'd been away from the pitch, did Clerc. And he's only going to get more in rhythm and find his mojo again. I've already seen him make classic Clerc-class plays this season. He's the kind of guy who's so pro he'll get right back to where he left off, no excuses. He's that conscientious.

 

[FrenchFan]

I agree with you about Clerc's quality and current return to form. Tu preches un converti. But there are other factors more important than just the player's form that are coming into play. And you can't overlook them esp. when it comes to age & Clerc's allegiance to his club. These weigh far more. And i'm telling you that the club here will not play ball more with PSA.
There's no way Huget, Picamoles, Dusau, Nyanga are dead cert for a Rayban tour of OZ when the club need them. Sorry. If you are a true Toulouse fan, you know how ****** off we are with PSA. This will not wash over easily. I think some of these players, Clerc is one of them, will soon be told to focus on their club carreer or else...

 

[Big Ewis]

well I like Toulouse and appreciate a lot what they mean to world Rugby and what they stand for. They're an absolute bastion and pillar in the universe of Rugby.
But my priority will always be the xv de France in theory, as an ideal. Of course seeing what's been going on since about Lievremont, and even then at least he delivered some remarkable results, but particularly since PSA, I understand the xv de France has little to no meaning anymore. I totally understand that, and I'm not deaf dumb or blind.
But we won't repeat our argument here again, well here goes a bit of it anyways...: the Top 14 has turned into a league of its own entirely detached from any outside contact. Players are no longer trained to represent their country; if test Rugby could stop existing, Noves and Boudjellal and co. would be so happy they'd think they'd died and gone to Heaven for sure.
My mot d'ordre regarding this, and I won't ever change on that (I think): either the current Top 14, or changes and we can have Top 14 and France Rugby. But we cannot have current Top 14 pace AND have France Rugby too. Very simple.

Look at aaaaaaall the other nations, none of them have this problem or even anything remotely close to it. We've talked about it often, but:

*England have real rigid and intelligent rules that protect their players. Of course their Prem league isn't nearly at the level of Top 14, and their teams don't stand a chance in the H Cup. But they've made that choice, or at least that's how it is. They sure make up for it with their national team, and are looking fabulous for the next RWC.

*Ireland have their province, Leinster=Ireland thing.

* NZ, Aus and SA enjoy their respective leagues and teams, Waratahs, Sharks, Reds, Crusaders, it's all good and fans call themselves die-hard and all, but when it comes to The Rugby Championship, summer or autumn tours or RWC's, those guys know what's up and are ready and willing to play ball as real teams, with chemistry, closeness, togetherness and an actual gameplan and distinct style.

* Wales don't give a shhit about clubs, but their case is way exaggerated. They literally are non-existant and it's only getting worse at club level. But when they wear red, they win Grand Slams and regular ***les and humiliate squads in their intimidating den, the Millennium Stadium.

Right now we're below all those sides in that regard, and the only other Tier 1 nations with as many or more problems are:
- Scotland whose Rugby is flat-out decaying
- Italy, who take one step forward then 5 backwards and whose clubs are in crisis
- Argentina, who still don't have a league of their own and whose players are scattered all around Europe
- Samoa (a semi-Tier 1 nation) who have a similar situation to Argentina's, but who still manage to play well.

 

[FrenchFan]

B]

well I like Toulouse and appreciate a lot what they mean to world Rugby and what they stand for. They're an absolute bastion and pillar in the universe of Rugby.
But my priority will always be the xv de France in theory, as an ideal. Of course seeing what's been going on since about Lievremont, and even then at least he delivered some remarkable results, but particularly since PSA, I understand the xv de France has little to no meaning anymore. I totally understand that, and I'm not deaf dumb or blind.

Nobody said the xv de France has no meaning. Its just that the people in charge are not very good at what they do. So the national side is suffering from their incompetence and shoddy professionalism. But this is not the Top14 problem. Clubs don't get a say in the management of the national side. And the LNR is just equally useless in my view. The biggest club in the country and Europe no longer seats at LNR since our president resigned, so they look like a bunch of clowns, which both FFR & LNR are.

I've long held the view that Lievremont should have been given a 2nd chance given that he went into the job with little experience yet delivered 1 GS & 1 WC final. There's not one single pro coach out there who would dare sneer at such a record. The problem is that he was lynched by the very people who appointed him because that's how they operate, when they should have worked with him to grow him into the job. Once again, this has NOTHING to do with the running of the domestic league.

And to add insult to injury, this season both FFR & LNR have dugged themselves deeper into their own ***** with the 30 player Elite group thingie
who came up with that stupid idea? the FFR. The clubs don't have a say in it.

this will, very soon, have the exact OPPOSITE effect and force clubs to hire more foreigners.


But we won't repeat our argument here again, well here goes a bit of it anyways...: the Top 14 has turned into a league of its own entirely detached from any outside contact.

not sure what u mean. They are not "detached from outside contact", the foreigners playing or coaching in Top14 are bringing their own culture of the game which is moving the game forward at club level anyway. The game here evolves from its foreign influence. French rugby clubs from after the war all the way to the 1990s was very much turned inward. Very insular in many ways, and it was very stagnant as a result. Now that its opening, don't go complaining.

Players are no longer trained to represent their country. they never were. Was true 30 years ago, still is. Clubs come first. A call to the national side is just the icing on the cake.

if test Rugby could stop existing, Noves and Boudjellal and co. would be so happy they'd think they'd died and gone to Heaven for sure.

this is nonense regarding Noves. Guy Noves has unearthed developped supported coached the last 3 GENERATIONS of the top Toulouse Intl who played and still play for the country. So his contribution to making our national side competitive is IMMENSE.

My mot d'ordre regarding this, and I won't ever change on that (I think): either the current Top 14, or changes and we can have Top 14 and France Rugby. But we cannot have current Top 14 pace AND have France Rugby too. Very simple.

the clubs WANT & CAN change. Its happening right under your nose. Pro Club rugby here have MORPHED and will continue. It will evolve towards a Top 12. It used to be a Top16.

It would be better to ask, can the FFR & LNR change as well? Can the FFR CLOWNZ in charge of the national side say the same? we know the answers. They don't like change. They don't know what it is. You can't cling to power and say you want change as well. You have the same arseholes in charge for the last 30 years?! That's not healthy. That's why FFR is corrupt (recent accusations of money laundering etc, risk of bankruptcy etc).


.

 

[Big Ewis]

When I say the Top 14 has isolated itself, or become cut from any outside influence, I mean it no longer goes hand in hand with test Rugby whatsoever. And playing for France may be the icing on the cake, but at the same time one of the very points of a home-brewed pool of players was to train them and use them to represent their country, and I join you as you say Noves and Toulouse have been a major, if not most probably the single most influential and prolific club at that. The problem is again, the isolation factor: the Top 14, again, has no ties with anything else but itself and the H Cup. All the rest can go fk itself, and no, I vociferously do not agree with that one bit.

It's my same old point over and over again, the Top 14 has such weight now that it can't allow for anything else besides itself, so it has become a gluttonous, fat basterd who can only look after its selfish self (wow, "selfish self", rhyme intérieure/répé***ion sémantico-phonétique).

To be clear, a Boudjellal or a very Noves (proud producer of French players once upon a time) right now would really rather the int'l game not exist at all - or, even worse, and exactly what's happening in fact: not mind the int'l game, but not caring about the results there.
The thing is, you can't even (fully) blame him: the Top 14 is a monument of stakes and epic wars now, it's an absolute universe of capital and interests, an industry of industries, and a coach simply cannot go "we play our season, but I understand the FFR need our players...so here, just take them, I don't care if you injure them or tire them" because everything is controlled air-tight, no risks can be taken anymore, and tons of money and interest and more and more *people* are involved in Rugby in France atm.

So wtf does the coach do ? Well he can only care about his season and his players and being the best at that.

Finally, we disagree about the FFR. They're fukking clowns alright and are responsible for my pains and tribulations as a French fan and the hit my pride takes, but they're not responsible for the issues with the LNR. Their plans and contract ideas were good in theory, but entailed troubles in actual application: e.g.: if France are to pick 30 Frenchman a year, then clubs will be inclined to producing or buying less French players and working with even more foreigners.

But they're clowns because they're incompetent. They are not the ones breaking French Rugby today, or at least not entirely and only partially. If the LNR could at least acknowledge international duty is still an important thing, then maybe negotiations could take place.

Just look at England: they play their league, but their guys get to train for weeks together, are fresh, play in unison as a *team*. We had less cohesiveness or chemistry than the Lions in their first game last summer.

 

[FrenchFan]

When I say the Top 14 has isolated itself, or become cut from any outside influence, I mean it no longer goes hand in hand with test Rugby whatsoever. And playing for France may be the icing on the cake, but at the same time one of the very points of a home-brewed pool of players was to train them and use them to represent their country, and I join you as you say Noves and Toulouse have been a major, if not most probably the single most influential and prolific club at that. The problem is again, the isolation factor: the Top 14, again, has no ties with anything else but itself and the H Cup. All the rest can go fk itself, and no, I vociferously do not agree with that one bit.

well if it has ties with a competition like the H Cup as you say, then the Top14 is not isolated. You're contradicting yourself

It's my same old point over and over again, the Top 14 has such weight now that it can't allow for anything else besides itself, so it has become a gluttonous, fat basterd who can only look after its selfish self (wow, "selfish self", rhyme intérieure/répé***ion sémantico-phonétique).

To be clear, a Boudjellal or a very Noves (proud producer of French players once upon a time) right now would really rather the int'l game not exist at all - or, even worse, and exactly what's happening in fact: not mind the int'l game, but not caring about the results there.
The thing is, you can't even (fully) blame him: the Top 14 is a monument of stakes and epic wars now, it's an absolute universe of capital and interests, an industry of industries, and a coach simply cannot go "we play our season, but I understand the FFR need our players...so here, just take them, I don't care if you injure them or tire them" because everything is controlled air-tight, no risks can be taken anymore, and tons of money and interest and more and more *people* are involved in Rugby in France atm.

well Noves is still very much a producer of great French players. Where have you been? did you pick that Toulouse flag by mistake? you've another 13 to choose from you know so feel free.
you're contradicting yourself again. he has never made such statements, he is a big supporter of the XV de France, he always has been. He worked as TV consultant during the 2007 WC if you watched it on TV, he was hard to miss. His comment and analysis showed his passion for our team and for Test rugby. Sorry BE facts are not going your way on that one....You can't lump him with Boudjellal. Noves is well known as a big fan of Test rugby because he is also a rugby fan at the end of day, and his contribution via his coaching motivating talent detection etc to the cause of the national team cannot be overstated.

So wtf does the coach do ? Well he can only care about his season and his players and being the best at that.

Finally, we disagree about the FFR. They're fukking clowns alright and are responsible for my pains and tribulations as a French fan and the hit my pride takes, but they're not responsible for the issues with the LNR. Their plans and contract ideas were good in theory, but entailed troubles in actual application: e.g.: if France are to pick 30 Frenchman a year, then clubs will be inclined to producing or buying less French players and working with even more foreigners.

this is exactly the point I've made in my post. The FFR 30 players Elite thingie is a mistake. It is going to backfire on the national side NOT THE CLUBS. their plan is good but only theory?! ah ah funnyyy hey but that's what you get with the FFR. Everything looks good on paper. But the devil is in the details. And in practise it doesn't work. And NONE of the Top 14 clubs have signed up for this. Not what I could call an agreement.

But they're clowns because they're incompetent. They are not the ones breaking French Rugby today, or at least not entirely and only partially. If the LNR could at least acknowledge international duty is still an important thing, then maybe negotiations could take place.

hey sorry i see no evidence here of the "breaking Fr rugby today", examples?? please talk facts if u can

we have a fantastic home league that has just attracted the backing of a major foreign broadcaster
We have a growing audience here in the country, which according to posts in this forum tops the audience of the English Premiership
Toulon are currently European champions and we have again 2 teams in semis of H Cup

 

[Big Ewis]

I thought my points were clear enough, and they're made anyways, I won't get back on them.
Noves is just one coach amongst many in the Top 14 and seeing how much he and Toulouse's president and organization as a whole are complaining about the FFR every single time they can slip smt in. But of course you'll justify it's because he's right and the FFR is screwing them over, but the fact is still they're not changing anything or willing to change anything. Unless I see smt big and substantial like a Top 12 or really considering the FFR conditions even if they need to be tweaked in a professional, serious manner, then my argument stands. The Top 14 can't afford to and doesn't give a flying fk about the FFR and French Rugby.

You can't just pretend like the Top 14 authorities are the good guys and trying hard and caring - who gives a flying fk what Noves *says on national TV* man - and the FFR are the only ones at fault. Well I mean, you can do that, but it's just not credible at all.

Oh, and about "breaking Fr Rugby": every time a player was selected, French clubs *****ed. So wtf is the French national team supposed to do, play with Chinese immigrants ? We need players to play in bleus lol, we always have, this is the way it's ALWAYS been. Noves didn't even want to give some of his guys away, or at least he *****ed about it every 2 weekends, wouldn't skip an episode.
You'll tell me "but it's natural, he needs his players", and hence, now, maybe you'd see the problem through my eyes, as it is really.

 

[FrenchFan]

well no, its clear as mud. You're contradicting yourself as pointed out. You can't backup anything with any examples.
The clubs have changed and are moving on. Its the FFR that is stuck and so is the national team.

 

[Big Ewis]

what have the clubs done to help the French national team again ?

 

[FrenchFan]

They're releasing their players to the national team. The rest is in the hands of FFR and the national coach.

 

[Big Ewis]

...so how about that Sofiane Guitoune to the UBB ?

 

[gaston le gaff]

Well this is an excellent thread, Sofiane Guitoune goes to UBB and you two start a war of words about the FFR and the LNR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope the guy does not read this he may well decide to stay at USAP!!!!!!!! which would not be too good for him!!!!! Talk about going off track!!!!!!! just a little!!!!!!!! never mind soon be 16.40 and the first hopefully French team in the Final, after watching that crap last night, hope no one thought that was a good game of club rugby, not sure what intensity means
anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! think we may see better this afternoon from both sides but with a 1/2 empty stadium the atmosphere could be wanting!!!!!!!!!! they could have played it in Paris!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[iINDOMINUSxx]

we all know that Sofiane Guitoune will end up at toulon

 

[Big Ewis]

Well this is an excellent thread, Sofiane Guitoune goes to UBB and you two start a war of words about the FFR and the LNR!!!!!!!!!!!!!! hope the guy does not read this he may well decide to stay at USAP!!!!!!!! which would not be too good for him!!!!! Talk about going off track!!!!!!! just a little!!!!!!!! never mind soon be 16.40 and the first hopefully French team in the Final, after watching that crap last night, hope no one thought that was a good game of club rugby, not sure what intensity means
anymore!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! think we may see better this afternoon from both sides but with a 1/2 empty stadium the atmosphere could be wanting!!!!!!!!!! they could have played it in Paris!!!!!!!!!!!!!

gaston, please, derailing is sort of what we do here at the Top 14 counter, you know that better than anyone !

we all know that Sofiane Guitoune will end up at toulon

we do ?