SANZAR consider showing SA Ref a Red Card

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Article Published: Tuesday 7 June 2011

SANZAR are considering standing down South African assistant referee Pro Legoete after his shambolic head butt charge that saw Waratahs secondrower Pat O'Connor being wrongfully handed a red card.

Legoete called in South African referee Craig Joubert from the touchline and reported that O'Connor headbutted Bulls player Flip van der Merwe but the Waratahs player was later cleared of any wrongdoing.

Joubert has already been cautioned for his handling of the incident although he was acting on the advice of Legoete with whom he double checked the ball and pointed out that it was a big call and a red card offence.

The incident had a huge impact on the result of the match as the Waratahs finished the stronger team despite being a player down. When the incident occured the Waratahs were trailing 20-17 with 15 minutes remaining and the match finished 23-17.

"We reviewed the game on Monday night and clearly the decision was wrong," SANZAR referees boss Lyndon Bray told The Australian.

"There are two aspects which are frustrating. The description of the event was not very accurate.

"The process between the referee and the assistant referee was not good. It never fleshed out the details of the incident.

"I've spoken to Craig Joubert about how he could have handled it better, to get better information on which to base his decision.

"Craig was very disappointed he ended up with that decision."

Even though Legoete reported O'Connor for a headbutt he hesitated and initially indicated that he did not think it was a red-card offence and Bray believes was a potential signal the assistant referee had not communicated the nature of the offence accurately.

"Referees are prone to make mistakes all the time," Bray said.

"What we don't want is a mistake to be compounded by a process that is not good.

"An experienced referee's job is to pick up on messages he is getting. When Pro said no to a red card, clearly there was a message in that."

"It's difficult in the heat of the moment. Craig believed he was dealing with a headbutt."

"If they had talked through what happened, maybe they would have come up with a different outcome."

Legoete is not involved in a Super Rugby match this weekend and Bray will decide over the next 24 hours whether to stand him down for the last round of the competition.

If Legoete is stood down it won't be the first time as he was stood down in March last year indefinitely.

source: superxv.com


Not much of a pro

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Any wonder why there are more NH going to the WC?

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Maybe because you guys have more top nations? We only have 3 countries but manage to get 4 referees. That is 1,3 per country.

You have 6 referees from 5 countries which comes down to 1,2 per country.

And that is even without taking Italy and Scotland into the equation

 

[psychic duck]

Craig Joubert is an awful referee, so is Dickinson
so is Lawrence, don't remember what his first name is, but I do know he mucked up the Ireland Argentina match in the autumn
that Lawrence guy, better not be going to the World Cup

I used to hate Walsh, but I now think he's improved
Wayne Barnes I thought was good, now crap

the three best referees in the world IMO are Romain Poite, Alain Rolland and Steve Walsh
why isn't Lewis going? he's one of the best

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

We have Bryce Lawrence from New Zealand and Mark Lawrence from South Africa...

 

[TRF_Cymro]

Craig Joubert is an awful referee, so is Dickinson
so is Lawrence, don't remember what his first name is, but I do know he mucked up the Ireland Argentina match in the autumn
that Lawrence guy, better not be going to the World Cup

I used to hate Walsh, but I now think he's improved
Wayne Barnes I thought was good, now crap

the three best referees in the world IMO are Romain Poite, Alain Rolland and Steve Walsh
why isn't Lewis going? he's one of the best

Deluded ... Walsh is still poor as is Lewis who is retiring.

Barnes is probably one of the top NH refs.

 

[Draggs]

Barnes is probably one of the top NH refs.

That's not saying much

Not as bad as Walsh, but Barnes picks a side and penalises it all day long.

 

[TRF_Cymro]

I made the small print of your comment bigger :iamwithstupid3jd:



which one was the one who refereed Ireland against Argentina in the autumn

Ah cool mature response

Definitely Andy Howells in disguise.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I made the small print of your comment bigger :iamwithstupid3jd:



which one was the one who refereed Ireland against Argentina in the autumn

blonde hair or black?

Bryce:

Mark:

 

[cyRil]

How can you say Steve Walsh is in the top 3 refs in the world?! He is probably the worst going and Lord knows who he sucked off to crawl back in through the back door to reffing internationally!!

 

[Draggs]

Ah cool mature response

Definitely Andy Howells in disguise.

"Threatening me, are you?"

Nice pic of Bryce, Eze! Don't think he likes what everybody is saying about him.

World Cup appointments are here:
http://www.irb.com/mm/Document/Training/MatchOfficialPnl/02/04/24/48/2042448_PDF.pdf

Don't know what we did wrong to get Barnes twice and Walsh.
Rolland can be decent, not the worst choice.

 

[TNT88]

This was a linesman. In super rugby, most games will have linesmen from the local province so they don't have to bother flying in 3 top quality refs for each game. To run the lines you only need to know the rules back to front and to keep up anyway. Assistant refs are easily replaceable, the story is a bit of over-kill tbh.

 

[TRF_stormer2010]

Obviously it was a head butt to the face of Flip who was in a headlock at the time and nowhere near the ball. You only need to invision where Flip's face is, where O'Connor's head is going and look at Flip just after the incident. The angle is horrible but I think Pro really did see something (cheapshot to a player held in a head lock) worth a red card though it's inconclusive with the video evidence (though a bit of conjecture shows O'Connor is not innocent IMO). Hard luck on Pro and very inconsistent from SANZAR to single him out.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

It's funny how inconsistent the boards are. SANZAR now blames a touch judge, but in a similar case (despite it being a try in stead of a headbutt) they blamed the referee (Kaplan) for something the touch judge should have seen (Wales-Ireland, this years Six Nations)

 

[nickdnz]

Craig Joubert was totally justified. He acted in accordance to the information he was given. He asked what happened, he was told a headbutt, he reminded the touch of what the punishment was, and the touch judge verified it. What is he supposed to do? Second guess the touch? He's not a trained psychologist and the touch judge is a professional. Calls that Joubert is rubbish I find crazy. Kaplan and Jonker are rubbish but Joubert is in my mind the best referee in the world.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

I was actually pointing in the opposite direction. SANZAR now blames the touch judge and I think the IRB should have done the same with the Wales-Ireland match where the try was awarded after a wrong quick throw. Kaplan got the blame when in fact it was Peter Allan's fault.

 

[Seaton]

Obviously it was a head butt to the face of Flip who was in a headlock at the time and nowhere near the ball. You only need to invision where Flip's face is, where O'Connor's head is going and look at Flip just after the incident. The angle is horrible but I think Pro really did see something (cheapshot to a player held in a head lock) worth a red card though it's inconclusive with the video evidence (though a bit of conjecture shows O'Connor is not innocent IMO). Hard luck on Pro and very inconsistent from SANZAR to single him out.

^^^^^^^^^^
This

Even though I think Pro Legote is a poor referee, the one commentator seems to have an 80 minute orgasm whenever Pro refs, going on about how well he communicates with the players. <_< His communication on Friday was laughable.

 

[iWin]

I was actually pointing in the opposite direction. SANZAR now blames the touch judge and I think the IRB should have done the same with the Wales-Ireland match where the try was awarded after a wrong quick throw. Kaplan got the blame when in fact it was Peter Allan's fault.

If I remember right, didn't Kaplan explicitly ask the touch judge if it was the right ball and get the incorrect response?
Definitely not his fault that one.

 

[TRF_Ezequiel]

Yes. Kaplan asked the touch judge, got an answer (which was wrong) and acted accordingly. The IRB blamed him later for not asking the right question, tossers