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SA to leave Super Rugby? SANZAR are considering changing the format of Super Rugby

Jaguares

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http://www.sarugby.com/news.cfm?new...ail&utm_term=0_53e97ccfb4-5659caa251-63589685

What do you think of this idea???


SA to leave Super Rugby?



SANZAR are considering changing the format of Super Rugby in 2016.


SANZAR are currently considering a number of proposals regarding the future format of Super Rugby, one of which could see South Africa leave the competition.


According to reports in all three SANZAR member nations, Australia and New Zealand may form a trans-Tasman rugby tournament to replace Super Rugby from 2016 with South Africa being joined by Argentinean or possibly European teams in a separate competition. The Australasian tournament would likely also include Asian teams.

SARU's insistence on having six teams involved future in Super Rugby competitions is at the source of the need for change as such an expansion will render the current conference system unworkable.

SANZAR Chief Executive Greg Peters has confirmed that negotiations are underway with regards to the structure of southern hemisphere competitions beyond the next broadcasting deal, which will come into effect in 2016.

Peters has however moved to calm speculation, saying SANZAR are still "some way off" making a decision but that the possibility of a split remains a reality.

"The challenge is with a limited number of weeks in the year, how do you create a competition that has integrity in its structure, keeps everyone involved and satisfies the needs of the three main countries," Peters told Fairfax.

Peters confirmed that SANZAR are working on "a number of future scenarios".

"The end result will as always involve working together to achieve a result that strikes a balance between the various imperatives of the three [SANZAR] unions," he told Rugby 365.

"This is against a range of principles agreed by all three SANZAR Unions, including a fundamental one of South Africa having six teams in the future structure.

"Player welfare is also a significant consideration."

The Australian and New Zealand unions are reportedly in favour of the South African proposal of a split as they believe a trans-Tasman competition will produce more derbies that develop increased gate-takings, more fan engagement in the domestic markets, easier broadcast timezone considerations, and less travel for players.

SANZAR are believed to be eager to have agreement by the end of this year to give all parties enough time to plan under the new framework.

The proposal, which will not affect The Rugby Championship, is one of three options on the table: the alternatives feature retention of the three-conference system, and expanding the competition further to Asia and the United States and Canada. All parties are believed to favour a solution that includes South Africa, New Zealand, Australia and Argentina.






 
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Yeah, we read this every 2 years. Ever since the whole Southern Spears saga started 8 years ago, this has been a recurring subject but it's not happening. SANZAR is not going to drop SA Rugby because it will decrease the importance of the competitions. If SARU decides to leave SANZAR, they also won't be participating in the Rugby Championship.

If anything, I see SANZAR expand both competitions rather than kicking out SA.
 
It's difficult to see where South Africa would go to be honest. The sounds coming out of European rugby are that the standoff between the ERC and the English and French clubs is finally nearing a solution, which would effectively solidify the competition in something resembling its current format for the foreseeable future. Even if that weren't the case, there'd be the question of why European club rugby would want South Africa. The market is large admittedly, but such is the state of the South African economy that they bring little financial clout to the table. Not much benefit to a business that's becoming increasingly cash driven.

The most realistic scenario is a further expansion of Super Rugby to include two or three Argentine sides, with South Africa probably taking another side on as well. However the logistics of this kind of move cannot be overstated in terms of their difficulty. You'd essentially have to get every Argentine plying their trade in Europe to sign contracts that expire the year you'd want to start out and it'd be interesting to say the least to see how the Argentine association would pay for them.
 
there are windows for change around when TV deals change and so on. so there is always discussions about what the possibilities are each time a window approaches.

Do get the feeling that some more drastic changes have to happen at some point. I think all nations want more teams, NZ could easily have another team and AUS another as well and just poach more NZ players and league players. SA obviously want more and I think everyone likes the idea of PI, South American and Asian nations getting involved somehow.
 
No way SA would leave. They would not give up being in tournaments alongside two nations who are consistently top 4.
While traveling to Europe would be easier for South Africans than going to Aus/NZ, I don't think the English/French sides will want to go all the way down a few times a season.

Expansion of S15 would be awful. It is already too weak, with the Farce, Rabble, Kitties, and Queens (aren't I clever). One NZ side has to be awful every year, and the Stormers, Sharks, and Cheetahs like to impersonate yo-yos on the rankings. We don't need padding at the bottom. Argentina could maybe put together one decent side the first year, but it would require, as Feic said, pulling many from Europe. Now perhaps another tournament with a few South American sides, and some Island ones as well, but no where near S15 yet. I'd even be in favour of culling three and returning to Super 12. It would really up the intensity, playing with truly competitive sides every week, rather than some teams getting lucky and playing the Kitties, then a medium team at home, followed by a week off.
 
Yeah, we read this every 2 years. Ever since the whole Southern Spears saga started 8 years ago, this has been a recurring subject but it's not happening. SANZAR is not going to drop SA Rugby because it will decrease the importance of the competitions. If SARU decides to leave SANZAR, they also won't be participating in the Rugby Championship.

If anything, I see SANZAR expand both competitions rather than kicking out SA.

Why not run the whole thing like the NFL. They have the AFC (American Football Conference) and the NFC (National Football Conference). Each conference is made up of divisions, and each conference is a Championship in its own right. The winners of each go the the Superbowl

New Zealand and Australia could make up the "Pacific Conference"; a 12-team - 2 Division competition, five NZ Teams plus a team from the Islands in the NZ division, and five Australian teams plus a team based in Japan in the Aussie Division - each team plays the teams in their own divisions twice (home and away) and the teams in the other division once; three at home and three away). That is 16 divisional matches before the post season.

South Africa could do the same; the "Atlantic Conference" could be another 12 Team - 2 Division competition with six South African teams in their division (keep the Lions and the Kings happy) and an "Americas" division comprising six teams from Argentina, USA and Canada.

the winners of the Atlantic Championship play the winners of the Pacific Championship, in a sort of SANZAR Superbowl. The venue alternates on yearly basis, Atlantic one year, Pacific the next, with the winning team hosting. You could even have a two week break before the final match.
 
Why not run the whole thing like the NFL. They have the AFC (American Football Conference) and the NFC (National Football Conference). Each conference is made up of divisions, and each conference is a Championship in its own right. The winners of each go the the Superbowl

New Zealand and Australia could make up the "Pacific Conference"; a 12-team - 2 Division competition, five NZ Teams plus a team from the Islands in the NZ division, and five Australian teams plus a team based in Japan in the Aussie Division - each team plays the teams in their own divisions twice (home and away) and the teams in the other division once; three at home and three away). That is 16 divisional matches before the post season.

South Africa could do the same; the "Atlantic Conference" could be another 12 Team - 2 Division competition with six South African teams in their division (keep the Lions and the Kings happy) and an "Americas" division comprising six teams from Argentina, USA and Canada.

the winners of the Atlantic Championship play the winners of the Pacific Championship, in a sort of SANZAR Superbowl. The venue alternates on yearly basis, Atlantic one year, Pacific the next, with the winning team hosting. You could even have a two week break before the final match.
Yes please.

Give cooky the reigns in Africa, IRB! :)
 
That would blow for SA. Who would want to see some random Americas team over the Chiefs or Crusaders?
 
Why not run the whole thing like the NFL. They have the AFC (American Football Conference) and the NFC (National Football Conference). Each conference is made up of divisions, and each conference is a Championship in its own right. The winners of each go the the Superbowl

New Zealand and Australia could make up the "Pacific Conference"; a 12-team - 2 Division competition, five NZ Teams plus a team from the Islands in the NZ division, and five Australian teams plus a team based in Japan in the Aussie Division - each team plays the teams in their own divisions twice (home and away) and the teams in the other division once; three at home and three away). That is 16 divisional matches before the post season.

South Africa could do the same; the "Atlantic Conference" could be another 12 Team - 2 Division competition with six South African teams in their division (keep the Lions and the Kings happy) and an "Americas" division comprising six teams from Argentina, USA and Canada.

the winners of the Atlantic Championship play the winners of the Pacific Championship, in a sort of SANZAR Superbowl. The venue alternates on yearly basis, Atlantic one year, Pacific the next, with the winning team hosting. You could even have a two week break before the final match.

Whilst this idea is nice, it really means you have two separate competitions running entirely - they're one competition only in name. Having a finals play off doesn't really change that (especially if the top team plays the top Heineken Cup team, because that would mean the whole world is in one competition ;))

Draggs' post below sort of emphasises the issue with this, which is that we want to see top teams playing - I'd rather play the Saffas than the Oz teams, most of the time (it helps that the Chiefs beat the SA teams...). At a minimum, I'd expect all teams to play off against one another [in a three match series?] (i.e. PACIFIC 1 v ATLANTIC 1, PACIFIC 2 v ATLANTIC 2).

That would blow for SA. Who would want to see some random Americas team over the Chiefs or Crusaders?
 
yeah this topic and that article is also reaching the point of ad nauseam...

The biggest loss for NZ and Aus will be the TV coverage and income they are getting. The stats last year was that SA contributes to more than 50% of the coverage, and has the most viewership of the 3 nations.

With all the articles year in and year out, there is no way that this will happen.

And I am all for the expansion. The Conference system is not a good model.
 
I can't see SANZAR splitting up; all parties concerned would lose.

I think the best format for Superugby is a 2 tier system with 12 teams in tier 1; 4 from each of the current nations. That way you'd see strength vs strength and 11 round robin games with every team playing each other brings back some integrity to the format. Then there should be promotion/relegation matches between the bottom of tier 1 and the top of tier 2 as decided by each nation; NZ can for instance opt to keep the Highlanders in tier 2 while SA can decide to have promotion/relegation matches for their 4 alotted places in tier 1.

Tier 2 would then be the other 3 current teams, the 6th SA side and then they can look at expansion in other areas whether within SANZAR or without looking to bring Japanese, PI or Argentine teams in. Those teams might be competitive with the likes of the Force, Kings and Lions and also make for a strength vs strength competition even though at lower level than tier 1.

My 2 cents.
 
yeah this topic and that article is also reaching the point of ad nauseam...

The biggest loss for NZ and Aus will be the TV coverage and income they are getting. The stats last year was that SA contributes to more than 50% of the coverage, and has the most viewership of the 3 nations.

With all the articles year in and year out, there is no way that this will happen.

And I am all for the expansion. The Conference system is not a good model.

Well, if you want expansion, and you don't want the conference model, then you have to stop *****ing about the travel... (by "you" I don't mean personally you)

Full round robin where every team plays every other team = shiiteoads of travel. There is simply NO WAY to avoid this.
 
I can't see SANZAR splitting up; all parties concerned would lose.

I think the best format for Superugby is a 2 tier system with 12 teams in tier 1; 4 from each of the current nations. That way you'd see strength vs strength and 11 round robin games with every team playing each other brings back some integrity to the format. Then there should be promotion/relegation matches between the bottom of tier 1 and the top of tier 2 as decided by each nation; NZ can for instance opt to keep the Highlanders in tier 2 while SA can decide to have promotion/relegation matches for their 4 alotted places in tier 1.

Tier 2 would then be the other 3 current teams, the 6th SA side and then they can look at expansion in other areas whether within SANZAR or without looking to bring Japanese, PI or Argentine teams in. Those teams might be competitive with the likes of the Force, Kings and Lions and also make for a strength vs strength competition even though at lower level than tier 1.

My 2 cents.

You're suggesting something along the lines of Heineken Cup/Amlin Challenge Cup?

If so, that is worth more than 2c
 
Well, if you want expansion, and you don't want the conference model, then you have to stop *****ing about the travel... (by "you" I don't mean personally you)

Full round robin where every team plays every other team = shiiteoads of travel. There is simply NO WAY to avoid this.

What I mean with the conference system, isn't anything to do with the travel (which I think has been a benefit to the SA sides that has won more games than before). The conference system, to me, is an unfair advantage to the Aussie teams. but I don't want to get into that can of worms again.

I'd like to see something model like the Cricket World cup. 4 pools. top 2 go through to a Super 8 group where each of the teams play each other once and then a semi and a final...
 
I don't like the idea of a dual tiered competition. I can't imagine being stuck for a whole year playing only the Lions and the Force. If country was irrelevant then it'd be more ok (i.e. two teams regardless of country drop out, two teams promote). As it is you get rewarded for being in the weakest conference currently, I'd hate for that to continue.
 
I don't like the idea of a dual tiered competition. I can't imagine being stuck for a whole year playing only the Lions and the Force. If country was irrelevant then it'd be more ok (i.e. two teams regardless of country drop out, two teams promote). As it is you get rewarded for being in the weakest conference currently, I'd hate for that to continue.

With the growth of the sport, there is no other way... Promotion/Relegation cannot be avoided. I am all for the disregard of which nationality you are and only focus on the bottom 2 playing against 2 other teams and it is irrelevant of which nation you are representing.

This way, we can get a club or team from Japan, the Pacific Islands, Argentina, USA, Canada and even Namibia involved...
 
With the growth of the sport, there is no other way... Promotion/Relegation cannot be avoided. I am all for the disregard of which nationality you are and only focus on the bottom 2 playing against 2 other teams and it is irrelevant of which nation you are representing.

This way, we can get a club or team from Japan, the Pacific Islands, Argentina, USA, Canada and even Namibia involved...

The problem I have with increasing the number of teams from SA is that is purely weakens the competition. An Argentine team will become strong in the long term - the Lion will not, not without hindering another SA team anyway.
 
The problem I have with increasing the number of teams from SA is that is purely weakens the competition. An Argentine team will become strong in the long term - the Lion will not, not without hindering another SA team anyway.

I tend to disagree regarding the Lions.

Yeah they were very poor, but they have one of the biggest pools of players in the country. With getting the Promotion, they were guaranteed in influx of R100 million. Add to that the new sponsorships and the fans now actually attending the games, I think they can come back and be a real force. They got rid of the bad seeds, and of John Mitchell. they have appointed Johan Ackermann as head coach, who was a Lions player himself and a real hard-ass. So I think they are moving in the right direction.

That being said, The promotion relegation, system increases the pool of players available. That in itself could strengthen the national team... Maybe not in the first 3 years, but thereafter it could be a great attribute....
 
I tend to disagree regarding the Lions.

Yeah they were very poor, but they have one of the biggest pools of players in the country.
With getting the Promotion, they were guaranteed in influx of R100 million. Add to that the new sponsorships and the fans now actually attending the games, I think they can come back and be a real force. They got rid of the bad seeds, and of John Mitchell. they have appointed Johan Ackermann as head coach, who was a Lions player himself and a real hard-ass. So I think they are moving in the right direction.

That being said, The promotion relegation, system increases the pool of players available. That in itself could strengthen the national team... Maybe not in the first 3 years, but thereafter it could be a great attribute....

This is a team which has only made the top nine teams three times in seventeen seasons. Regardless of the player base, you can't justify a team on those results.
 
This is a team which has only made the top nine teams three times in seventeen seasons. Regardless of the player base, you can't justify a team on those results.

They had a very bad group in management. Dr. Louis Luyt, who was a brilliant rugby mind, even though he was a bit of a racist, caused the start of their downfall. Players left because of political reason. They were near bankruptcy, and got bailed out by a new Black Economic Employment group. But what happened behind the scenes, wasn't made public... And then the bail-out only helped for a while, because the new partner promised an amount, and then didn't pay half of that amount over to the Union. Causing their debt to increase on a monthly basis.

Then the news came that a new stadium will be built in Soweto, and that it will be bigger than Ellis park. All of a sudden they lost all the income they generated from hosting concerts and soccer matches.

Now that the hype of the SWC has died down, and that Soccer City will only be used once a year for an international rugby match, Ellis Park could go back to it's old glory days. They still have their core schools and with 2 Universities in their area now participating in the Varsity Cup, they have a very strong case to build a very good team.

That said, coulda woulda shoulda... They have to prove now that they belong.
 

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