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As previously stated, there are really only two scenarios where turnovers occur. The first is if a player is isolated in possesion of the ball by the tackler. This is a tackled ball scenario, not a ruck.
A ruck forms once two or more players bind over the tackled player. Once a ruck is formed it is supposed to be that no hands are used.

So the first part is easy really. If an attacking player is tackled and a defending player arives first, then he'll challenge for the ball.
If the defender is there trying to rip the ball away for long enough before a supporting attacker arrives (to clean him out) then a turnover will occur.
The better the skill of the defender the faster the turnover can happen. The attack can choose to hold onto the ball, giving away a penalty for holding on, or he can release it and concede the turnover.
The defending player has to arrive through the gate and will be penalised for not doing this (at medium and advanced levels). If another attacking player arrives at the tackle before the turnover can be completed then the defender will get taken out and possession will be temporarily secured for the attackers.

I wouldn't even bother forcing gamers to push X to have to join the ruck. If you simply run into contact at the ruck (like running into contact to perform a tackle) then you'll join over and start contesting.
So instead of bottom mashing to join it becomes about the proximity of players to the tackle and the momentum of attack (because defenders on the back foot would have to get around through the gate to contest the ball.

The second type of turnover that occurs is when a ruck is flooded by defenders. Again it is about speed of numbers to the tackle ball and coming through the gate. The old JLR used joining and leaving to contest rucks, but it was flawed in that you could overturn far greater numberical advantages by removing and adding new players. It should just be about adding numbers to the point where you have it won. Removing players would make your ruck weaker, but once possesion was secured or lost it would make a difference to remove numbers. The tradeoff for throwing too many players in trying to flood a rruck would be holes in your defensive line if you don't pull it off. These days in real life rugby once a ruck is secured then you have near zero chance of countring. So rucks should remain about the balance of numbers joining, but should be a lot shorter in duration and the scales should tip quickly. So if you manager to get 3 to 1 then you'll secure it very quickly. 2 vs 2 would see the balance remain even longer (but individual skills would provide another level of difference).

By forcing the defenders to come through the gate to contest you give the advantage to the attacking team, like real life. And you force the defenders to pick and choose when to try and go for that turnover and when to instead stack the defensive line to prevent linebreaks.

<blockquote data-quote="scuubasteve" data-source="post: 315656" data-attributes="member: 23005">As previously stated, there are really only two scenarios where turnovers occur. The first is if a player is isolated in possesion of the ball by the tackler. This is a tackled ball scenario, not a ruck.A ruck forms once two or more players bind over the tackled player. Once a ruck is formed it is supposed to be that no hands are used.&nbsp;So the first part is easy really. If an attacking player is tackled and a defending player arives first, then he&#039;ll challenge for the ball.If the defender is there trying to rip the ball away for long enough before a supporting attacker arrives (to clean him out) then a turnover will occur.The better the skill of the defender the faster the turnover can happen. The attack can choose to hold onto the ball, giving away a penalty for holding on, or he can release it and concede the turnover.The defending player has to arrive through the gate and will be penalised for not doing this (at medium and advanced levels). If another attacking player arrives at the tackle before the turnover can be completed then the defender will get taken out and possession will be temporarily secured for the attackers.&nbsp;I wouldn&#039;t even bother forcing gamers to push X to have to join the ruck. If you simply run into contact at the ruck (like running into contact to perform a tackle) then you&#039;ll join over and start contesting.So instead of bottom mashing to join it becomes about the proximity of players to the tackle and the momentum of attack (because defenders on the back foot would have to get around through the gate to contest the ball.&nbsp;&nbsp;The second type of turnover that occurs is when a ruck is flooded by defenders. Again it is about speed of numbers to the tackle ball and coming through the gate. The old JLR used joining and leaving to contest rucks, but it was flawed in that you could overturn far greater numberical advantages by removing and adding new players. It should just be about adding numbers to the point where you have it won. Removing players would make your ruck weaker, but once possesion was secured or lost it would make a difference to remove numbers. The tradeoff for throwing too many players in trying to flood a rruck would be holes in your defensive line if you don&#039;t pull it off. These days in real life rugby once a ruck is secured then you have near zero chance of countring. So rucks should remain about the balance of numbers joining, but should be a lot shorter in duration and the scales should tip quickly. So if you manager to get 3 to 1 then you&#039;ll secure it very quickly. 2 vs 2 would see the balance remain even longer (but individual skills would provide another level of difference).&nbsp;By forcing the defenders to come through the gate to contest you give the advantage to the attacking team, like real life. And you force the defenders to pick and choose when to try and go for that turnover and when to instead stack the defensive line to prevent linebreaks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="scuubasteve, post: 315656, member: 23005"] As previously stated, there are really only two scenarios where turnovers occur. The first is if a player is isolated in possesion of the ball by the tackler. This is a tackled ball scenario, not a ruck. A ruck forms once two or more players bind over the tackled player. Once a ruck is formed it is supposed to be that no hands are used. So the first part is easy really. If an attacking player is tackled and a defending player arives first, then he'll challenge for the ball. If the defender is there trying to rip the ball away for long enough before a supporting attacker arrives (to clean him out) then a turnover will occur. The better the skill of the defender the faster the turnover can happen. The attack can choose to hold onto the ball, giving away a penalty for holding on, or he can release it and concede the turnover. The defending player has to arrive through the gate and will be penalised for not doing this (at medium and advanced levels). If another attacking player arrives at the tackle before the turnover can be completed then the defender will get taken out and possession will be temporarily secured for the attackers. I wouldn't even bother forcing gamers to push X to have to join the ruck. If you simply run into contact at the ruck (like running into contact to perform a tackle) then you'll join over and start contesting. So instead of bottom mashing to join it becomes about the proximity of players to the tackle and the momentum of attack (because defenders on the back foot would have to get around through the gate to contest the ball. The second type of turnover that occurs is when a ruck is flooded by defenders. Again it is about speed of numbers to the tackle ball and coming through the gate. The old JLR used joining and leaving to contest rucks, but it was flawed in that you could overturn far greater numberical advantages by removing and adding new players. It should just be about adding numbers to the point where you have it won. Removing players would make your ruck weaker, but once possesion was secured or lost it would make a difference to remove numbers. The tradeoff for throwing too many players in trying to flood a rruck would be holes in your defensive line if you don't pull it off. These days in real life rugby once a ruck is secured then you have near zero chance of countring. So rucks should remain about the balance of numbers joining, but should be a lot shorter in duration and the scales should tip quickly. So if you manager to get 3 to 1 then you'll secure it very quickly. 2 vs 2 would see the balance remain even longer (but individual skills would provide another level of difference). By forcing the defenders to come through the gate to contest you give the advantage to the attacking team, like real life. And you force the defenders to pick and choose when to try and go for that turnover and when to instead stack the defensive line to prevent linebreaks. [/QUOTE]