Ref's accountable

[robseltz15]

I think that it is very much time that referees should be accountable if they have a bad game. Point in case Scotland V France. Wayne Barnes did not help the Scots one bit. Yes France are a better side and deserved to win but it would have been nice to see some consistant refereeing. End of the first half, Pape gets taken around the neck - yes penalty no doubt, second half Pape nearly decapitates Lee Jones nothing given!! Barnes seems to give Scotland the advantage for France not rolling away, arm goes out. Play continues 20 seconds, Scotland do nothing and a slight knock on. Scrum to France given!!! Even Jonathan Davies who never has anything to say for Scotland thought it was a penalty. Going back a bit further with Barnes' history. Contepomi at the world cup, a good 4 yards offside charging down Parks kick, how did he get there, not hard to see the guy was offisde. Going back even further, Lions v South Africa, now were do I begin with that Wayne Barnes performance.
The best refereeing so far in the tournament has come from a Kiwi. That is not good, yes they are the best team in the world but their referees are notoriously poor. Steve Walsh in the England v Wale game was the first ref I have seen to penalise people for going off their feet at the breakdown and trying to slow the ball up illegally. Lets get this breakdown situation cleaned up and we will have a much faster flowing game. Wales v Scotland, Stuart Hogg denied a try because Romain Poit thought he had knocked on. If that had been a 4 point game and Laidlaw not scored then that mistake would have been mssively highlighted. I don't think it is fair that these go unpunished. If a player has a bad game they are dropped that is that. I am not not saying refereeing is easy, it is very hard indeed and we are indebted to these guys for refereeing but that is now their job. Lets see some action taken for poor performances and have the referees held accountable for them

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

Agree with you that penalty should have been given against Papé in 2nd half, as it exactly the same action that gave us one in the first.

I've got a question about the 2nd Scottish try, when the 6 takes the ball while in the blue side and after he tackles.
Some say that there is no ruck, but the all the conditions to declare one are present. A Scottish tackler, a French tackled and his support (2 players). Moreover when the white stand up with the ball while in the blue side, he's in contact with the defense support so we cannot accept he's a new player joining that wouldn't be a ruck because no other Scot around.

I noticed a very average ref for all the match this week-end. Not especially partial but very laxist on everything on the ground.
Special mention to the line outs judges in England-Walles...

 

[Big Ewis]

Well that's the thing. Even one of two French commentators on France2 totally yelled at the official saying Pape had just high tackled some Scott. But on the replay, you can tell he certainly doesn't "decapitated" anyone, and there's a thin margin between a tackle where all the pressure goes on the upper chest, and then an actual high tackle where the guy applies all the strength on the very throat, which is dangerous and reprehensible by default rules.

I understand it sounds super rhetorical and biased, but I'm not sure it's a high tackle.

 

[TNT88]

Players who have a bad game are dropped?

I don't think so. Experienced players usually need to have a string of bad games before they are dropped. In fact, I can't think of many players who have ever been dropped after playing 1 bad game. And it's only if there are very good players trying to get into the team.

If a ref keeps getting things wrong and there are good refs waiting to come in, of course they get dropped.

I think people who make these claims need to ask how the ref selection system works before claiming we need to start punishing people left right and centre. The referee selectors surely want the best 12 refs appointed every week, and this is no easy task. It certainly wont be achieved by dropping anyone who misses a knock on or high tackle.

 

[Mr.cyclopede]

It's a high tackle from the fact it's above the shoulder, and defined as this because even if you intend to put a vertical pressure, because of many causes (player tacked making a diversion, escape/unprecision or speed of the tackle/....) it can easily lead to a woundering action.

Now for Papé I agree he didn't "decapitated" the Scott, would have he done it, should have it been a yellow because this card is made to note the intention more than the action by itself

As for the ref to be accountable, a bit of transparency is always noticeable, but where's the limit ? a committee of judges noting the performance with colors, letters,...
Moreover like for the team it's no way to give a note only to the field judge but the line outs and video one if we consider that their more and more acting as a team.

 

[Mogs999]

Who'd be a referee eh? can't do right for doing wrong lol. seriously tho, i totally agree with what you say about them being held accountable when they have particularly poor games.However, as i've mentioned in other threads,He can only call on the TMO on whether a try was or wasn't scored. We have the benefit of slo-mo replay after replay from 78 different angles ( okay, slight exaggeration),The ref has to rely on his own senses and that of his touch judges and inevitably they are going to get some calls wrong. But, it would be a sad day for the game if the ref had to stop the game and study replays for every time he blew the whistle.I doubt we'd ever hear the final whistle if that were the case. I'm not trying to defend bad referees here, but i'm certain they all try their best in what is becoming a faster, more technical game by the day.(with the exception of Alain Roland-i will never forgive him lol)What we can expect and demand is consistency, whether bad or good just be CONSISTENT ok.

 

[oldscumbagonian]

I think that it is very much time that referees should be accountable if they have a bad game. Point in case Scotland V France. Wayne Barnes did not help the Scots one bit. Yes France are a better side and deserved to win but it would have been nice to see some consistant refereeing. End of the first half, Pape gets taken around the neck - yes penalty no doubt, second half Pape nearly decapitates Lee Jones nothing given!! Barnes seems to give Scotland the advantage for France not rolling away, arm goes out. Play continues 20 seconds, Scotland do nothing and a slight knock on. Scrum to France given!!! Even Jonathan Davies who never has anything to say for Scotland thought it was a penalty. Going back a bit further with Barnes' history. Contepomi at the world cup, a good 4 yards offside charging down Parks kick, how did he get there, not hard to see the guy was offisde. Going back even further, Lions v South Africa, now were do I begin with that Wayne Barnes performance.
The best refereeing so far in the tournament has come from a Kiwi. That is not good, yes they are the best team in the world but their referees are notoriously poor. Steve Walsh in the England v Wale game was the first ref I have seen to penalise people for going off their feet at the breakdown and trying to slow the ball up illegally. Lets get this breakdown situation cleaned up and we will have a much faster flowing game. Wales v Scotland, Stuart Hogg denied a try because Romain Poit thought he had knocked on. If that had been a 4 point game and Laidlaw not scored then that mistake would have been mssively highlighted. I don't think it is fair that these go unpunished. If a player has a bad game they are dropped that is that. I am not not saying refereeing is easy, it is very hard indeed and we are indebted to these guys for refereeing but that is now their job. Lets see some action taken for poor performances and have the referees held accountable for them

There was no penalty. A Scottish player mishandled the ball coming from the ruck but the ball went behind. Barnes stuck out his arm to indicate that the ball had gone back and was not a knock-on. I'm not a great fan of Barnes but I'm sure even he would have called it back for a penalty if he had seen a penalty offence.

 

[Peat]

I didn't see a single reffing performance this weekend that I'd call reprehensible or be angry about as player/fan. They weren't perfect, its impossible to be. Don't see the issue in this case.

 

[Olliekooga]

It is difficult. As a coach I dont like moaning about the man in the middle to be honest. If the day comes when he makes more mistakes than my team does then I will have a moan. Thought Walsh missed a massive knock on from Jamie Roberts (I think) in the tackle which led to Welsh possesion and field position from which they slotted a penalty but I'm sure we can all point to individual instances of perceived twaddle from the ref.

They should however be accountable but at the same time I think players at all levels need to remain aware that we do not want the berating of referees as they do in girly kickball.